deskthority

Three letters bros: BMW. rwd4lyfe

You can even get them with non-Autobahn engines like the 216i or the 520d.

"Lyfe" meaning "until we want an MPV or a supermini"? (I shouldn't complain really - it's still an improvement on "until the petrolheads force us".)

Wodan wrote:

kbdfr wrote: A pity they don't make those any more:

Spoiler:

I bet there's a north korean car based on this design that is still in production and - according to north korean media - is winning the Le Mans 24h year after year.

I fear I'm going to have to mention Fiats again. No, there's no Renault 4 made in North Korea -- you'll have to settle for a Fiat Siena. Until a few years ago an Iranian factory put the bodyshell of a 70s Renault 5 on the oily bits of a mark-1 Kia Pride...

I do like Fiat's idea of using an old model code for a new model that has absolutely no link with the old one. Perhaps we can look forward to the Dell AT102W

, the IBM Model M

, and the Cherry G80-1000

Car shopping in North Korea must be a lot easier. Take it or leave it, peasant. If you complain, we'll send you to the gulag.

alh84001 wrote: My second car. I have very fond memories of it. Last ones were made nearby in Slovenia and had a distinctive feature of having separate rectangular rear signal lights. Plastic covers would break after many years, and it was a hassle to find a replacement. Other than that, it was a tank.

If you want the ultimate car though, there is only one (no matter which variant)

kill it with fire!

If you have one, I will gladly take it off your hands. For a small fee of course I am getting my hands dirty after all

So what's the deal with German cars and the other higher end European brands we can buy over here (Volvo, Jaguar)? The general consensus on this side of the pond is that German cars are great to drive and attractively designed, but the over engineering affects realiability and repair costs. Car owner surveys have shown that reliability is not as bad as it used to be, but not on par with the most reliable brands. And still expensive to maintain and repair.

What I wonder about is the general reputation of these brands in Europe, and if it is different or similar.

I can tell you that most Germans agree that almost all German car brands have decreased in quality in the last 15-20 years. Instead they are filled with electronics and computers that are supposed to make driving easier which is not always the case IMO. It's also now proven that new modern cars do not have better milage than a 20 year old car of the same size for example. To answer your question the reputation of German car brands in Germnay has dropped, after the VW emissions "scandal" (which is really the biggest scam in German automotive history) even more so. If I were to buy a car now I might get a Japanese car. My dad used to own one of these in the mid-late 1980's, these S-class were built like tanks but current Mercedes Benz models are a shadow of that in build quality.

I can tell you that in my small part of the world, for better or worse, german cars still have this aura of being the car, and everything else is just a vehicle. This is especially true in those parts where more people emigrated to Germany back in 70s and 80s, and had ability and means to purchase a german car as opposed to Yugoslav own Zastava. VW Golf second generation is probably the most legendary car here, especially a white model with diesel engine that was manufactured in Sarajevo. In recent decades though, french manufacturers are on par at least if you're comparing sales numbers, but BMW, Mercedes and Audi are still go-to brands if you can afford them. Also, spare parts tend to be more expensive for german cars, but I think that the difference is now less than what it had been.

alh84001 wrote: I can tell you that in my small part of the world, for better or worse, german cars still have this aura of being the car, and everything else is just a vehicle. This is especially true in those parts where more people emigrated to Germany back in 70s and 80s, and had ability and means to purchase a german car as opposed to Yugoslav own Zastava. VW Golf second generation is probably the most legendary car here, especially a white model with diesel engine that was manufactured in Sarajevo. In recent decades though, french manufacturers are on par at least if you're comparing sales numbers, but BMW, Mercedes and Audi are still go-to brands if you can afford them. Also, spare parts tend to be more expensive for german cars, but I think that the difference is now less than what it had been.

Right, 20-30 years ago (and obviously older) they were simply built better. And you can fix a lot yourself and there are a lot of parts (even today) for something like the Golf 2. Now it's all electronics and very complicated (on purpose) constructions.

seebart wrote: Now it's all electronics and very complicated (on purpose) constructions.

So we can fix them up like keyboards, right? Keyboards are electronics, too.

I actually hate all these electronics in cars these days, because they can be distracting and also introduce additional complex failure points and potential expensive repairs that are not DIY.

My only experience with seeing first hand the European automobile market was my trip to France last year, and the country obviously is biased towards French brands. Saw a lot of Renault, Peugeot, Citroen, of course. Also saw some of Volkswagen and Skoda. The main American brands I saw were Ford and I guess Opel would count as well. Then the higher end German brands here and there. Not very many Japanese or Korean cars, certainly not like we have here.

I know this may not be the most popular choice, but I wish we had more a hatchback selection in the United States. If you want something utilitarian, sporty, and fuel efficient, we basically are limited to the Volkswagen Golf and the Audi A3. The selection is quite slim, but it is slowly growing. Most people buy sedans, small SUVs, and pickup trucks. Lots and lots of pickup trucks that they pretty much never use for its intended purpose.

Don't forget the Mazda3, for utilitarian+sporty+fuel efficient (unless you mean TDI-level fuel efficient, which... well, OK, the upcoming Cruze Hatchback diesel will be utilitarian+fuel efficient anyway)...

bhtooefr wrote: Don't forget the Mazda3, for utilitarian+sporty+fuel efficient (unless you mean TDI-level fuel efficient, which... well, OK, the upcoming Cruze Hatchback diesel will be utilitarian+fuel efficient anyway)...

Oh yea, the Mazda3. Mazdas used to have a reputation for being cheap and junky when Ford had a large owneship stake, but the apparently the quality has vastly improved and they always focus on making their cars fun to drive.

Not sure how they got the reputation, apart from building down to a price. Over here they were reckoned pretty durable even when they were terminally boring to drive (or, in the case of the last 121, a Ford with a nose job). By the way, webwit's Xedos is a Mazda from the early-90s dream-days when the management thought they could become the Japanese GM - in Japan it was a Eunos, which was (roughly speaking) the Pontiac equivalent.

vivalarevolución wrote: I know this may not be the most popular choice, but I wish we had more a hatchback selection in the United States.

Yes, they've never been popular your side of the Atlantic. Perhaps it's for the same reason as in Japan - they're viewed as a little too utilitarian. And also, big cars are hard to style as hatchbacks. It's the opposite way round in the UK - hardly any of our Focus-size models are sold as sedans here, even though some are made as sedans for markets like Turkey, and the next size up are getting scarce too.

I could be wrong about past reputation fo Mazda. At the very least, the were viewed as less reliable than Toyota and Honda, but long-term surveys are showing that Mazdas hold up as good as anything.

Another reason for the lack popularity of hatchbacks is the prevelance of cheap crossovers/small SUVs is the lower price of gasoline. There simply is less reason for people to consider hatchbacks as an option. Why buy a hatchback when you can get more ground clearance, a bit more space, and a higher driving position for the same price? The only thing you lose out on is gas mileage, but that has mattered over the past few years now. Also, cost of maintenance on an SUV is higher, but I doubt the typical car buyer thinks that far ahead.

Well, it then depends on whether you're actually talking about an SUV, or a FWD crossover.

A FWD crossover is basically a hatchback, just taller (and as a result heavier). That's it. AWD, you do have the rear differential, and whatever system sends power to the rear, but otherwise, it's the same thing still.

(Of course, if you actually care about handling or fuel efficiency, taller and heavier is the exact opposite of what you want...)

In any case, Mazda's problem nowadays is that they still haven't heard of sound insulation, so they get lots of complaints of road noise in their cars.

Speaking of Mazdas...

Mmm, that's a nice Mazda all right... attractive engineering and a nice shape. That was a Eunos too, but it was also going into the Lexus-rival Amati brand, as a partner to a V12 saloon. All the Cosmos have been appealing in their own ways - the gorgeous 60s original, the 70s mid-Pacific "personal cars", and the 80s one with two different saloon bodies and a woodgrain stereo!

bhtooefr wrote: A FWD crossover is basically a hatchback, just taller (and as a result heavier). That's it. AWD, you do have the rear differential, and whatever system sends power to the rear, but otherwise, it's the same thing still.

The endpoint of that progression is cars like the Rover Streetwise and VW CrossPolo. Not that the idea of selling something based on a hatchback with some rough-road prowess is completely new...

bhtooefr wrote: Well, it then depends on whether you're actually talking about an SUV, or a FWD crossover.

A FWD crossover is basically a hatchback, just taller (and as a result heavier). That's it. AWD, you do have the rear differential, and whatever system sends power to the rear, but otherwise, it's the same thing still.

(Of course, if you actually care about handling or fuel efficiency, taller and heavier is the exact opposite of what you want...)

In any case, Mazda's problem nowadays is that they still haven't heard of sound insulation, so they get lots of complaints of road noise in their cars.

I guess that I am taking about both SUVs and FWD crossovers. Anything with more ground clearance the majority of US citizens actually will ever need, most of whom live in cities and suburbs.

It seems that Mazda puts more features in their cars than any other manufacturer at their price point, so I figured they have to cheapen it somewhere.

citrojohn wrote: The endpoint of that progression is cars like the Rover Streetwise and VW CrossPolo. Not that the idea of selling something based on a hatchback with some rough-road prowess is completely new...

That looks like fun.

vivalarevolución wrote:The Fiat-Chrysler brand generally has a shit reputation for reliability around here. Chryster, Dodge, RAM trucks, Jeeps....poor marks all around.

I'd say the Jeep Wrangler is the only reliable, value-retaining one. I used to own one, after years of imports and it was a great experience. Mileage was terrible though.


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Have you seen the JD Power vehicle dependability study for 2016? Get a Porsche!

Link http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2 ... -study-vds

I own the brand that's consistently number one on reliability lists, a Lexus.

I am on my 3rd 4-cylinder, 4-door Camry (in 20 years) and, like the previous one, it is still going strong with over 200K miles.

For an economical, dependable car, they just can't be beat.

fohat wrote: I am on my 3rd 4-cylinder, 4-door Camry (in 20 years) and, like the previous one, it is still going strong with over 200K miles.

For an economical, dependable car, they just can't be beat.

I own what would be closest to the Corolla, a Lexus IS250 AWD. Before that I had an old beatup 1996 Camry that I bought for $600, which despite the poor condition it was in, got me from about 175K to 190K miles before I sold it. I dare say that car would've lasted another 10 years if I took the time to fix all the little issues with it (broken steering coupler, busted exhaust, leaky sunroof, broken door handle, etc).

Interesting anecdote about Lexus (and specifically about the IS250), it was actually based on the Toyota Altezza in Japan, but it was discontinued; unlike many other manufacturers which badge engineer their cars, Lexus got its own platforms from the discontinued Toyota platforms and still has its own to this day. Others like the Lincoln MKZ for example, are just an "upscale" model of the Ford Fusion, with badge engineering at work.

I had a 96' Camry as well, lasted from 110k to 150k miles before my exaust fell out the bottom and the header started leaking oil. Damn salted roads. 2nd most confortable car I have owned, the first was a 96' Buick LeSaber. If I could find a garage kept, well maintained Buick LeSaber today I would buy it in a heart beat.

Just found this. https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Bu ... =208094789
May just trade in my 04' Grand Prix for it

Went to a car dealership today to look at a couple cars. Excuse for a little bit, I will be washing the slime off myself for an hour or two. Ugh.

vivalarevolución wrote: Went to a car dealership today to look at a couple cars. Excuse for a little bit, I will be washing the slime off myself for an hour or two. Ugh.

Eww. I'll pass. I've found that some of the best deals on cars are on brand / vehicle specific forums on the classifieds section but you have to be very patient for the right car and have to beat someone else to claim the vehicle in a instant if it is a really great deal. I lost out on my dream car by mere moments just like as things go with keyboards.

I hate dealerships of any kind. Especially used car dealers.

Dealerships are awful. I want to test drive cars and look at them and sit in them before I buy them, and it's the easiest way to do so. But I just hate all the crap they try to pull there. One tried to do the high pressure sales tactics and that just made me want to leave even more.

Yea, one car I was looking at had a vehicle specific forum and the deals were great, better than I could get anywhere else. You also tend to get the enthusiasts that take good care of their car at those places.

I've been to some dealerships (usually the really small ones that look like a family owns it) where they literally just give me the keys and tell me to take it for a drive. Then I've been to other dealers (usually the larger corporate ones) where they sit in the car with you and watch your every move. If I'm wanting to buy a performance car, I want it to perform, not baby it while you make sure I wait 3 seconds at each stop.

Or get a Mazda 3 but don't fall for the 1.6L engine, it's underpowered.