deskthority

Yasu0 wrote: 18 Nov 2020, 19:28 Interesting reading these results. May be the case that existing wear in to the plastic is causing permanent effects that no lube can reverse? I am still waiting to try to get in what I can if I can get it in the US.

NeK wrote: 30 Nov 2020, 19:28 Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

NeK wrote: 30 Nov 2020, 19:28 Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

mcmaxmcmc wrote: 30 Nov 2020, 23:17

NeK wrote: 30 Nov 2020, 19:28 Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

Yikes... well then.

RIP to those that tried

joebeazelman wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 02:09

NeK wrote: 30 Nov 2020, 19:28 Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

I'm really not surprised by your findings. First, you slathered it on like there was no tomorrow. Nyogel is a very high quality grease with dampening properties. It is designed to be sticky so it can adhere to surfaces for long term lubrication. A little goes a long way, but went way overboard. When you realized the keys were binding, you went ahead and slathered on more. You have no clue on what you're doing. Please stop!

Second, it is impossible for any lubricant to impart scratchiness. In one of your photos, I see what appears to be polishing compound on one of your Alps stems and pieces of worn sandpaper strewn about. Hello? No wonder your switches feel scratchy! You've permanently impregnated the plastic with an abrasive! What you're actually sensing are abrasive particulates rubbing against plastic. The human finger is highly sensitive to fine particles down to well under 1 thousandth of an inch. Unfortunately, you've already murdered those switches beyond resuscitation. The abrasive will eventually wear away the plastic causing the switch to lose its tolerances. Game over. Hang it up.

Please stop your disastrous and unsupervised experiments. You're just making a big mess and blaming a product for your own ineptitude.

NeK wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 06:04

joebeazelman wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 02:09

NeK wrote: 30 Nov 2020, 19:28 Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

I'm really not surprised by your findings. First, you slathered it on like there was no tomorrow. Nyogel is a very high quality grease with dampening properties. It is designed to be sticky so it can adhere to surfaces for long term lubrication. A little goes a long way, but went way overboard. When you realized the keys were binding, you went ahead and slathered on more. You have no clue on what you're doing. Please stop!

Second, it is impossible for any lubricant to impart scratchiness. In one of your photos, I see what appears to be polishing compound on one of your Alps stems and pieces of worn sandpaper strewn about. Hello? No wonder your switches feel scratchy! You've permanently impregnated the plastic with an abrasive! What you're actually sensing are abrasive particulates rubbing against plastic. The human finger is highly sensitive to fine particles down to well under 1 thousandth of an inch. Unfortunately, you've already murdered those switches beyond resuscitation. The abrasive will eventually wear away the plastic causing the switch to lose its tolerances. Game over. Hang it up.

Please stop your disastrous and unsupervised experiments. You're just making a big mess and blaming a product for your own ineptitude.

Wow, take it easy dude.

First of all, you are making assumptions that are false, you are not checking them and then you just go ahead and without a shred of a doubt, drawing conclusions on them. That's a bad way to do it, to put it mildly.

Secondly, the abrasive compound that you saw, (used on cotton felt tips with a dremel) and the sandpaper was used on parts of other switches for various experiments over the course of many months. However, the switches that I actually used Nyogel 760g on, were "virgin" ones. Switches that were never-opened before and were not touched at all afterwards. They were just sitting in a drawer with the lube applied for weeks. I did this with several "virgin" switches, to make sure that I get consistent results. And I did only used just a hint of a pinch on those (on the stem's rails), after headphone_jack and kshopper2084 pointed out that I used way too much.

I don't know why you are attacking me, but I am thoroughly documenting and photographing each thing I do, so someone that does have a clue (unlike me) comes out and point out any mistakes or wrong in my ways, so we can all benefit from this. You, suddenly, just popped out of nowhere, with a bad attitude I should add, accusing me of "disastrous and unsupervised" experiments, that are a mess. Oh, Really? So, why didn't you say anything about then all of these months? Are you perhaps spending your time on discord having a laugh, while people are doing stuff and providing data (info, photos etc) on the thread, by actually posting and documenting what they do? Is this what "supervised" and proper experiment, means to you? Let me tell you, you are not helping, at all.

I have posted my data, right here in this thread, for the exact purpose to be readily available for anyone to review them and comment and help as I go on. Apparently you didn't give a shit, but OK whatever, I'm fine with that. Well I can't really judge how good my data are, but please let me know where is your data that backs up what you say, in order to review them and to compare with?

Oh, and before you use it again: no, the claim that "people on discord say it works magic" is not considered as "data", not even close, in fact it is the exact opposite of it, it is hearsay. And hearsay makes things worse, way worse it is as un"scientific" as you can get.

kelvinhall05 wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 15:31 idk man I had pretty good luck using it on some green Alps that came from this board:

Spoiler:

yummy.jpg

You did put way too much on your first ones lol. I'm guessing you then put too little on your second batch or used it on dirty switches because the ones I posted above were absolutely terrible when I got the board but are nice and smooth now.

NeK wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 16:06

kelvinhall05 wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 15:31 idk man I had pretty good luck using it on some green Alps that came from this board:

Spoiler:

yummy.jpg

You did put way too much on your first ones lol. I'm guessing you then put too little on your second batch or used it on dirty switches because the ones I posted above were absolutely terrible when I got the board but are nice and smooth now.

That's interesting and great. I assume green ALPS are 1st gen (material of the stem is the same as Blue/Orange ones, and not the newer smoother material used for pine White ones) and also they were factory-lubed, correct? How did you clean them, and how did you apply the lube? Can you give some pointers? Do you have any new-like ones to compare them to? How smooth are the presses on the corners of the keys?

kelvinhall05 wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 16:13

NeK wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 16:06

kelvinhall05 wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 15:31 idk man I had pretty good luck using it on some green Alps that came from this board:

Spoiler:

yummy.jpg

You did put way too much on your first ones lol. I'm guessing you then put too little on your second batch or used it on dirty switches because the ones I posted above were absolutely terrible when I got the board but are nice and smooth now.

That's interesting and great. I assume green ALPS are 1st gen (material of the stem is the same as Blue/Orange ones, and not the newer smoother material used for pine White ones) and also they were factory-lubed, correct? How did you clean them, and how did you apply the lube? Can you give some pointers? Do you have any new-like ones to compare them to? How smooth are the presses on the corners of the keys?

I ran them through an ultrasonic several times, then lubed sliders and housings (I probably should've tested different methods on different keys but oh well). They are very smooth although I probably could've used a bit less lube or just lubed the housing. I have some extremely good condition green Alps in a Sharp PA1000H and they feel very similar and I'd attribute the difference in feel to my shit lubing skills.

Some of the keys bind a bit when I press the corners of the keycaps but for the most part it's fine and I can't get them to bind when typing normally. Again, I think this can be attributed to my lubing technique.

NeK wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 16:34

kelvinhall05 wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 16:13

NeK wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 16:06

That's interesting and great. I assume green ALPS are 1st gen (material of the stem is the same as Blue/Orange ones, and not the newer smoother material used for pine White ones) and also they were factory-lubed, correct? How did you clean them, and how did you apply the lube? Can you give some pointers? Do you have any new-like ones to compare them to? How smooth are the presses on the corners of the keys?

I ran them through an ultrasonic several times, then lubed sliders and housings (I probably should've tested different methods on different keys but oh well). They are very smooth although I probably could've used a bit less lube or just lubed the housing. I have some extremely good condition green Alps in a Sharp PA1000H and they feel very similar and I'd attribute the difference in feel to my shit lubing skills.

Some of the keys bind a bit when I press the corners of the keycaps but for the most part it's fine and I can't get them to bind when typing normally. Again, I think this can be attributed to my lubing technique.

Thanks, really nice to hear. Though I remain abit not thrilled about the corner-binding issues (it is what I care most about). How long did you let them "cure" for? And have you let them totally untouched during that time, no presses or fiddling with them at all? And something last, how good or bad were they after you ultrasonic'ed them?

NeK wrote: 30 Nov 2020, 19:28 Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

joebeazelman wrote: 01 Dec 2020, 02:22

mcmaxmcmc wrote: 30 Nov 2020, 23:17

NeK wrote: 30 Nov 2020, 19:28 Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

Yikes... well then.

RIP to those that tried

It's a bit premature to declare it a failure based on one person's experienced. The jury is still out on this one. So far there's a lot of folks who are having incredibly positive results with it on the discord server with the general consensus that it is superior to every lubricant they've tried.

headphone_jack wrote: 02 Dec 2020, 18:20

NeK wrote: 30 Nov 2020, 19:28 Well, I on the other hand will just verify that Nyogel 760G does nothing for Blue ALPS (and all SKCM that are prelubed). In fact it does the exact opposite, it exacerbates the friction making them even more scratchy. Back to the drawing board.

I absolutely disagree with this statement. You used waaaaaay too much lube from your pictures. I tried out just a little on my salmon alps that were in a solid 6.5/10 condition before and they turned into an easy 8/10, with condition improving by the day.

Polecat wrote: 12 Dec 2020, 22:30 My subjective chart is binary, as a keyboard is a binary device.

1. Ready to use, with no issues.
0. Nope or noper. Don't bother with cleaning, lubing, or other fiddling about. Yank out, toss in the trash, replace with #1.

Note that this is specific to Alps switches, since that's what I've been typing on for the past thirty years. I've had incredibly good luck buying used Alps keyboards, with one notable exception - a Costar CSK-2102 with (early) white Alps I got recently, from the ebay seller in Egypt. It's immaculately clean inside (as in never been used), with zero shine on the caps, but squeaks and binds so badly that it's completely unusable. No matter, it's nothing some switches from a parts donor won't cure, the value to me is the case and keycaps.I would like to know why these switches are so terrible though.

NeK wrote: 13 Dec 2020, 00:24
Egypt has very high temperatures with a humid environment. That could easily explain the issue with the switches, as the plastic of the stems deteriorated under those conditions, even if stored in a box and never being used.

In any case, if you are going to throw it away, just send it over to me, I dont mind restoring it!

Polecat wrote: 13 Dec 2020, 01:02I knew Egypt was hot, but I didn't realize it was humid there.

hellothere wrote: 13 Dec 2020, 03:26 [obvious_joke] So, were you in denial? [/obvious_joke]

Polecat wrote: 13 Dec 2020, 04:20

hellothere wrote: 13 Dec 2020, 03:26 [obvious_joke] So, were you in denial? [/obvious_joke]

Well this keyboard, or at least its switches, was in denial. Myself I haven't been quite that far east; something about Albuquerque?

Polecat wrote: 13 Dec 2020, 01:02 I'll bet you're right. I knew Egypt was hot, but I didn't realize it was humid there. When I remove the switches I'll pop open a couple to see if there's any obvios damage before I toss them in the trash...uh...or send them to you.