deskthority

The cases look doable in 3D-printed titanium. I will check that when I get home.

Oh, man... that would be sick.

I think DOX must be on a vacation or something. I haven't heard anything from him the last couple of days. I'm pretty much dine with the PCB. Last week (most of it actually) I was writing Java tools to mess around with gerber files...

I have a question... Will there be unused i/o ports on the teensy or the i/o expander for fun modifications? I was thinking about adding some LEDs or possibly a lcd, though I guess i would need another i/o expander for the lcd.

Here are the current pin assignments (though.. bpiphany may have made some changes not reflected here yet.. I am a bit behind at the moment). There's only 5 unused pins, counting the internal pin on the left. You could put an extra expander on the I2C bus without any modification (which is oh so convenient), but that may drop your keyboard scan rate quite a bit, I'm not sure. Alternately, if you didn't mind the mod (and all the extra code, and the extra wire(s) between the chips) you could reroute some pins and use SPI (either for both the left hand side and the LCD, or just for the LCD). LEDs don't seem like they'd be hard to add, but I'm pretty sure you'd have to move stuff around to find more ports with PWM. Options

Count me in... 1 pair of PCBs and matching white plastic cases would be fantastic...
From reading this thread the PCBs would be ~$20 each, and the cases are about $50 each?
The fun of putting it all together... priceless!

No, the cases are about $100 each. But there is not much progress on the case lately. I've been considering trying to etch my own PCBs. They are only doublesided right? I haven't even looked at them yet.

I just sent a mail to pcbwing to ask for a quote on the PCBs. I really recommend buying professionally made PCBs. If you don't already have a etching setup to play with that is going to get much more expensive... and not as good in the end.

bpiphany wrote:I just sent a mail to pcbwing to ask for a quote on the PCBs. I really recommend buying professionally made PCBs. If you don't already have a etching setup to play with that is going to get much more expensive... and not as good in the end.

Get a cool colour!

bpiphany wrote:I just sent a mail to pcbwing to ask for a quote on the PCBs. I really recommend buying professionally made PCBs. If you don't already have a etching setup to play with that is going to get much more expensive... and not as good in the end.

We have one at the local hackerspace. Including people who know how to use it.

ic07 wrote:Here are the current pin assignments (though.. bpiphany may have made some changes not reflected here yet.. I am a bit behind at the moment). There's only 5 unused pins, counting the internal pin on the left. You could put an extra expander on the I2C bus without any modification (which is oh so convenient), but that may drop your keyboard scan rate quite a bit, I'm not sure. Alternately, if you didn't mind the mod (and all the extra code, and the extra wire(s) between the chips) you could reroute some pins and use SPI (either for both the left hand side and the LCD, or just for the LCD). LEDs don't seem like they'd be hard to add, but I'm pretty sure you'd have to move stuff around to find more ports with PWM. Options

Thanks, that looks fine, I like having as you say.. Options

bpiphany wrote:I just sent a mail to pcbwing to ask for a quote on the PCBs. I really recommend buying professionally made PCBs. If you don't already have a etching setup to play with that is going to get much more expensive... and not as good in the end.

Great, I'm going to want 1-2 keyboards (2-4 pcbs) depending on price.

Does anyone have any news about the cases and pricing? I got a friend who has a 3d printer that offered to manufacture one for a small cost, so I might try that out.

I still wan't one of these. Out of all the community projects this is the first that innovates. Shame we can't to the same things with topre switches.

I got a reply from pcbwing. I was asking how to quote for a non-rectangular PCB, but it seems like they are taking the stand that rectangular is the only shape. The reply I got was a screenshot from the online quote form, with the outer diameters entered =P The price will for sure be below $30 per half.

They are pricing it that way because what isn't included in the cut-out portion of the PCB is considered a loss for them. They can't use the waste trimmings for anything, so you get to pay for them.

They should be able to stack them to obtain a more rectangular form. And they should be able to combine orders with different sized PCBs as well to reduce waste. That I am pretty sure they will do anyway. No reason for them to waste laminate. I understand that they are unwilling to give any quote for it though.

Also consider, a business exists to make money. They can quote you a PCB cut from a slightly over-sized piece of medium as though they're doing it that way and make a bit more profit by arranging them in the most economical manner possible when in actual production.

Icarium wrote:

bpiphany wrote:I just sent a mail to pcbwing to ask for a quote on the PCBs. I really recommend buying professionally made PCBs. If you don't already have a etching setup to play with that is going to get much more expensive... and not as good in the end.

We have one at the local hackerspace. Including people who know how to use it. ;)

That is nice =) I wish I had a UV box, the ironing on method is kind of unreliable. The result is still not the same though. Unless they are able to add solder mask, gold plating surface finishing, and through plated holes. Drilling the holes with machine accuracy may be less of a problem in such an environment I suppose... Laminate blanks aren't free either =P No, etching at home is great for prototyping, but that is it I think.

justcallmecrash wrote:Also consider, a business exists to make money. They can quote you a PCB cut from a slightly over-sized piece of medium as though they're doing it that way and make a bit more profit by arranging them in the most economical manner possible.

I'm not saying I think they are doing anythig wrong, I'm just a bit unhappy with it =) Also in their FAQ they state that it is a bad idea to try to combine designs yourself on the same layout. This is of course due to them being able to combine several orders and they have powerful algorithms to calculate the layout to minimize waste. They claim it will only be more expensive to try to do this yourself. Either this is an obvious lie or the price increase is worse than linear in board area. And that would be sort of anti-parallel to the common business model where you are given a discount on volume. I'd have to adit that this would be one of those rare cases where this may be warranted due to larger waste.

fossala wrote:I still wan't one of these. Out of all the community projects this is the first that innovates. Shame we can't to the same things with topre switches.

So we can't buy topre switches?

dirge wrote:

fossala wrote:I still wan't one of these. Out of all the community projects this is the first that innovates. Shame we can't to the same things with topre switches.

So we can't buy topre switches?

You can always salvage them from boards. But there is noone as far as I have seen that has customized anything with them. I sure would like to figure out how to get that to work. I haven't really had time to do it. And I don't know that much about electronics either... There have been some recent attempts with another capacitance controlled keyboard, but no electrical engineers involved as far as I know =D Also there is noone manufacturing custom keycaps for the switches.

But the HHKB is made by PFU, and the Realforces by Topre themselves(?). So I guess if you start some serious keyboard business you may be able to buy the technology from Topre...

Yeah, in my experience every pcb fab will do nearest surrounding rectangle as far as cost calculations go :/ $30 still seems a bit high though - is that with tg170 or higher weight copper, or just the usual enig/color mask/1oz/etc deal?

In the past as an example, regular enig with red soldermask and white silkscreen on tg140, 6x 170x160mm ran me somewhere around $20 a piece, shipped. Maybe the volume discounts are better though.

BTW, awesome work on getting it all combined into a single pcb

bpiphany (still trying to get used to the new name)

There must be a way to get topre switches and do a project you're right, PFU do it, it's springs and rubber cups at the end of the day isn't it?....

Parak wrote:Yeah, in my experience every pcb fab will do nearest surrounding rectangle as far as cost calculations go :/ $30 still seems a bit high though - is that with tg170 or higher weight copper, or just the usual enig/color mask/1oz/etc deal?

In the past as an example, regular enig with red soldermask and white silkscreen on tg140, 6x 170x160mm ran me somewhere around $20 a piece, shipped. Maybe the volume discounts are better though.

BTW, awesome work on getting it all combined into a single pcb :shock:

I ordered 16 halves yesterday, Tg170, 1oz, blue solder mask on both sides, and silkscreen on both sides as well. The total was very close to $30 a piece, inlcuding shipping to me. Any further order will benefit from not including any setup cost as well as larger volume discounts. The price will pan out at ~>$15 or so around 80 boards or something. On top of that there will be shipping twice, some tax probably, and some safety margin so that none of the group buy organisers get burnt.

dirge wrote:bpiphany (still trying to get used to the new name)

There must be a way to get topre switches and do a project :) you're right, PFU do it, it's springs and rubber cups at the end of the day isn't it?....

And some fiddly capacitance reading I would assume. I'm pretty sure it is a lot more advanced than reading electrical contact/no electrical contact =P Looking at the number of components on a Topre board compared to a Cherry board there is a huge difference. Also in PCB layout, shielding, and everything else =)

I don't think we should GB the PCBs without at least a case, because a large chunk of us who are interested want to have a packaged deal, and just having the PCB isn't enough. I understand not including switches or Caps, because those are easy to install (PCB mounted switches) and are readily available elsewhere. I think that Dox has said the GB will be for both (case/pcb), and usually once he makes a decision it doesn't change. Guess we'll see.

Cheers,

bpiphany wrote: I ordered 16 halves yesterday, Tg170, 1oz, blue solder mask on both sides, and silkscreen on both sides as well. The total was very close to $30 a piece, inlcuding shipping to me. Any further order will benefit from not including any setup cost as well as larger volume discounts. The price will pan out at ~>$15 or so around 80 boards or something. On top of that there will be shipping twice, some tax probably, and some safety margin so that none of the group buy organisers get burnt.

Oh, awesome, so will those be the first pcbs of the combined sides?

this looks freaking amazing. so professional.

this is possibly a crass question: have you published your fine pcb layout? I was looking throught the thread, your ergodox site and github and seem to have come across every component but.

The PCB files will be published, but at least I think that it should wait until the first round of a group buy has been completed. I don't think it is in anyone's interest to have people getting impatient starting small runs here and there by themselves. The latest design isn't even tested yet.

bpiphany wrote:The PCB files will be published, but at least I think that it should wait until the first round of a group buy has been completed. I don't think it is in anyone's interest to have people getting impatient starting small runs here and there by themselves. The latest design isn't even tested yet.

Or to have them copied and already in the shops before it's finished...

So is the plan at this point to limit this group buy to PCBs and case, or paraphrased, a BYO-switch/caps? I guess it makes sense since people will probably want every flavor of switch under the sun. Is there an approximate ETA?