deskthority

emdude wrote:

Chyros wrote:

matchison wrote: A little bit late to the party, but I've been messing around with keyboard layout editor and ended up with this:
Edit: should be fixed now

Why would you want a block nav? Oo

No kidding, looks really old-fashioned. Better yet, how about having it laid out in a single row à la vintage Apple boards?

The inverse-T nav cluster was one of the most clever layout design innovations, IMO.

Or an L nav, they're not so bad as long as you have rightarrow under uparrow rather than downarrow which is confusing IMO. The block nav is probably my least favourite type of nav though xD .

Hi!

This is still a work-in-progress.



The background image is just for contrast. In reality it would just be black.

Its influences are the keyboards of the Amiga, Mac, Sun and others!

Please let me know what you think! Feedback would be grateful!

Incognito wrote: Yes well - I'm no big fan of standard either - I much prefer something akin to CP/M machine keyboards - the challenge, of course, is to find matching keycaps. I have refined my previous design and who knows - some day I may have time to build it?

That is a sexy looking layout - I wish standard DK keyboards looked more like this, with easily accessible semicolons and brackets/braces for coding.

No picture, but ... imagine the HHKB layout, with a split spacebar. That's it

All right, here's mine.

Rationale

The dream for a danish programmer is to have an ANSI board (with its code friendly brackets and semicolons etc.) with the annoying must-have danish Æ, Ø, and Å keys on it. I like compact keyboards but I also like my arrow keys, so I looked to the Whitefox and Leopold FC660 for inspiration.

Keycap compatibility

To keep this actually possible, I want to be able to get all the keycaps I need without having to find some specific rare vintage board, or having to order custom made keycaps. This pretty much means targeting modern DSA keysets only, since some of the keycaps will have to move rows to accommodate my ideal layout.

So with this in mind, I managed to achieve a layout that uses almost entirely standard key sizes, with the exception of the wide 1.75u left Control key, which is not always available. However, using the standard Caps Lock keycap works fine, so in any case, I will not be left with a naked switch stem.

As for the use of a 1u Backspace key, I can just use a standard 1u Delete key, which works both in size and semantics.

The only other potential issue is the need for two 1.25u Function keys (or a 1u and a 1.25u). This seems to be generally doable with the DSA keysets I've seen (certainly with people happily trading spare modifiers), and even if you'd need to substitute the Function keycaps, there are plenty of fun DSA 1.25u icon caps which would just liven up the colorway.

And here she is:



Requirements / Features

1. Must be fulfillable with a standard SP DSA keyset, with as few (manageable) exceptions as possible. In particular, no nonstandard Spacebar, no 1.5u Backspace, and if possible, no 1.75u right Shift key
2. Shift keys must not be too small or moved too far away
3. The arrow cluster must be easily located (by way of gaps and/or keyboard edges)
4. Likewise, the essential non-modifier function keys (Escape, Del/Backspace, Return) should be easily located
5. The positioning of the modifier keys on the bottom row should try to optimize for finger positions (HHKB style) as much as possible within the standard key sizes
6. The 'silhouette' of the layout should be pleasing and *nonrepeating* for quick tactile learnability. That is, each group of adjacent non-alpha keys should be distinct to the touch
7. Must not have too many function keys bundled together in a nonstandard configuration with no gaps or cluster separations
8. Function layers should be intuitive first and foremost (rather than complete), since we will not be able to find keycaps with the correct front printed legends anyway

My ideal layout, should I change the left shift for an ISO one?

I would be in love with a modern ANSI AT-layout buckling spring keyboard that had the form factor of the 4704s.
I've been using 60% keyboards almost exclusively for the past few months, but I've found the layout difficult to use; I like the smaller size, but I desire a TK and dedicated function keys.

Something like this would be ideal for me:



66% + a bunch of extras like programmable macros, a Compose key and LED indicators for those.

Alternatively, with more common keycap sizes:

ideus wrote: My ideal layout, should I change the left shift for an ISO one?

I won't recommend it. I had a franken 60% layout that used ANSI Enter, HHKB-like Right Shift (+FN), Backspace right above Enter and split (normal position) Backspace, and on the left was a short shift (ISO) near the \| key. Compared to a "normal" (i.e. longer) left shift, I felt like I always had to move the left pinky to the left, or step on the \| key unintentionally. Maybe, if you have big hands ..., but otherwise, that left shift is perfect as it is now. IMHO!

What would (maybe) work, but is not supported by any custom GH60 boards AFAIK, is to have a short left, ISO style, shift, to the right of an extra 1u key (i.e. ISO shift & \| in reversed positions), where that 1u key would function as another Fn key (symmetrical to the right one!).

Obviously, those already used to the ISO short left shift may have 0 problems with it ...

I went the opposite way with my freestyle HHKB build: This allows me to have the additional ISO key I need and still keep the iconic HHKB cluster on the right side of the keyboard.

I just had a thought: what if I only allowed myself to use standard key sizes and row positions, so it could be built using all vintage and non-exotic (Alps) keycaps?

Could I make a compact ANSI-ISO-hybrid layout like that?

Well, I came up with this:



(only two 1u bottom row Fn keys would need to be sourced separately, which should be doable and which does not wreck the colorway IMO)

Wodan wrote: I went the opposite way with my freestyle HHKB build:

Spoiler:

Might be a repost:

This allows me to have the additional ISO key I need and still keep the iconic HHKB cluster on the right side of the keyboard.

This is the route I'm going with my 2nd Alps64 build, for similar reasons as you. Should be finishing it off this week so will hopefully be able to show it off soon .

I thought about it a bit and that's what I came up with:
It's slightly modernized AT layout really. You have pretty much normal ANSI layout here, with tenkeys, or navigation cluster (in more up to date form than Model F/M) so the mouse is within the same reach like in tenkeyless keyboards. Additionaly on a left hand side there is a program and PFx keys to program macros on the fly.

There is also a mouse mode that changes navigation cluster into a mouse, like on ducky keyboards.

I’m starting a DIY keyboard project and I came up with this layout. Keycap color indicates DCS row; the actual keycaps will all be white and blank. Key assignments are tentative and subject to change.
It is heavily inspired by Truly Ergonomic (symmetry + column stagger). Changes I introduce:

• Matias Quiet Click switches instead of Cherry MX Brown
• More aggressive column stagger (based on highly scientific lay-hand-on-grid-paper measurement)
• Wider split angle
• Two editing key columns in the center instead of one, because I notice that I only use my right hand when pressing them
• Arrow/navigation clusters in their intended columns
• Moar thumb keys! (Somewhat inspired by Keyboardio.)

Two off-pinky columns on each side because minus and plus wanted to be adjacent (zoom gesture) and so did brackets (for entering them together). Remaining keys in these columns will be populated with characters that are heavily used in programming but ordinarily require Shift, such as: underscore, colon, double quote, maybe parentheses and angle brackets.

HzFaq wrote:

Wodan wrote: I went the opposite way with my freestyle HHKB build:

Spoiler:

Might be a repost:

This allows me to have the additional ISO key I need and still keep the iconic HHKB cluster on the right side of the keyboard.

This is the route I'm going with my 2nd Alps64 build, for similar reasons as you. Should be finishing it off this week so will hopefully be able to show it off soon .

And here it is, with Eddie's help.



Need to do a stem mod on a couple of switches but I'm pretty happy with it for the most part. Need to say a big thank you to emdude for helping with the plate.

I am considering assembling an XD60 PCB with the below layout and color combo with GMK caps:



I am not sure about the short left shift, so this is also an option:

Yuri Khan wrote: I’m starting a DIY keyboard project and I came up with this layout. Keycap color indicates DCS row; the actual keycaps will all be white and blank. Key assignments are tentative and subject to change. [...]

Cool layout. The space key is going to be a big pain, but other than that looks pretty good for a flat one-piece keyboard with lots of keys.

I recommend prototyping with paper printouts, then making a bunch of laser-cut acrylic switchplates and popping switches and keycaps on (no need to wire things up) to iterate a few times on the design before you settle on building a working production keyboard. Make sure the design works for the shape and comfortable movements your hands and fingers.

jacobolus wrote: Cool layout. The space key is going to be a big pain, but other than that looks pretty good for a flat one-piece keyboard with lots of keys.

I see two potential issues with the space. It’s small, and it’s surrounded by other keys. That may make it difficult to hit when not already in typing position. That’s a valid concern, but I think enlarging any one thumb key will either make other thumb keys less accessible or require moving the arrow/navigation clusters outwards which I’d like to avoid because on Truly Ergonomic I tend to hit arrows with the wrong fingers. Right arrow on the pinky is especially bad.

Do you think putting a differently shaped (DSA?) or differently colored keycap will mitigate the aiming problem?

Maybe I’ll end up with an additional space and/or Enter as tap actions on the shifts, which are on the edge and of slightly larger size.

jacobolus wrote: I recommend prototyping with paper printouts, then making a bunch of laser-cut acrylic switchplates and popping switches and keycaps on (no need to wire things up) to iterate a few times on the design before you settle on building a working production keyboard. Make sure the design works for the shape and comfortable movements your hands and fingers.

It means more roundtrips to the laser cutting facility, but it’s ultimately a good idea.

This is mine, Dont really think this will ever happen though.

mike52787 wrote: This is mine, Dont really think this will ever happen though.

Seems completely doable though, with DSA caps you would be able to source every single keycap with little trouble. Laser cut plate and sandwiched acrylic case, Teensy, and you're there. If this layout is endgame for you, then you're closer to your goal than most. I hope you build it, it looks nice.

Scarpia wrote:

mike52787 wrote: This is mine, Dont really think this will ever happen though.

Seems completely doable though, with DSA caps you would be able to source every single keycap with little trouble. Laser cut plate and sandwiched acrylic case, Teensy, and you're there. If this layout is endgame for you, then you're closer to your goal than most. I hope you build it, it looks nice.

Yeah, I was thinking about that, but I dont really like acrylic cases, and dont particularly like DSA. Im not sure what to do, It'll probably be a dream for awhile. I would do the case in alu or something, and use og caps mixed with other pbt caps to finish it off.

This is a slight modification of czarek's layout. I found it very inspiring, and I just ordered two 3u spacebars to eventually put this thing together.

Wodan wrote: I love the reverse-split-left-shift making space for ... CAPS LOCK

WHO NEEDS CAPSLOCK?

Everyone. ALL. THE. TIME!



You know you want it, Wodan.

Caps Lock GB anyone?

czarek wrote: I thought about it a bit and that's what I came up with:

keyboard-layout (1).png

It's slightly modernized AT layout really. You have pretty much normal ANSI layout here, with tenkeys, or navigation cluster (in more up to date form than Model F/M) so the mouse is within the same reach like in tenkeyless keyboards. Additionaly on a left hand side there is a program and PFx keys to program macros on the fly.

There is also a mouse mode that changes navigation cluster into a mouse, like on ducky keyboards.

You'd probably be interested in the Sun Type 4 keyboard.

Sparky, I'm aware of all Sun Type (n) keyboards. This one is very good indeed but not perfect unfortunately.

czarek wrote: Sparky, I'm aware of all Sun Type (n) keyboards. This one is very good indeed but not perfect unfortunately.

Also, KT F&F xD .

Chyros wrote:

czarek wrote: Sparky, I'm aware of all Sun Type (n) keyboards. This one is very good indeed but not perfect unfortunately.

Also, KT F&F xD .

Yea, that's a bummer too...

zool wrote:

cnc.png

Quite well done.
This practically fits in a Planck keyboard housing (depends also on the location of mini-B and reset button).