deskthority

Plasmodium wrote: Pimp my Keyboard (PMK) is just the shopfront for Signature Plastics.

I like that you're coming up with a new layout - however, I noticed that's missing the U key! My personal preference would be a little bigger than 60% (but smaller than TKL), but if you can make a fully featured keyboard smaller than 60%, go for it!

One thing to consider is that people like to swap keycaps, so really unusually sized keycaps might put people off.

I noticed that, U key has been added.

I was searching the web and found this! Gaote keyboard switches, another cherry replica with clear housing.
http://techkeys.us/products/keyboard-switches
Thoughts?

Loliplol wrote: This is what I made so far.

Spoiler:

Is that supposed to resemble UK layout? The keyboard does not decide which symbol goes on which key. Each key only has a "scancode" (or "usage code" in USB terminology). The user selects a keyboard layout in the OS - and that is what has the mapping from scancode to symbol. Therefore, for UK layout there can't be a key with both < and >. You need all three keys to the left of right Shift.

People don't want a small Backspace key. It could be as small as 1.5u.

Loliplol wrote: Gaote keyboard switches, another cherry replica with clear housing. [...] Thoughts?

I have not seen many reviews, but those I have seen have been negative.

New design:




That's the new design, seems okay.

Also, we will be making a TKL version with RGB lights. This one is simple, it will have a great price and it's super compact.

So... it's just a normal 60%?

scottc wrote: So... it's just a normal 60%?

Nope, it's a gaming 60% keyboard. Since we will be using Cherry MX Red switches with full anti ghosting. Also, you will enable to remap any key on the keyboard (or do anything with them, it's open source) and it will be fully customisable.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Something like that, gaming, but not that expensive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CDavOvaKd8

scottc wrote: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We will probably make the TKL version first, but now I know it will work.
Also, I found a company that will make high quality PCB for us. After we make our prototype, if it turns okay, we will make a Indiegogo project.
Users who help us with the design, ideas etc. Will be paid, and since I plan making them in the UK, jobs will be also available.

So - with respect - what separates this from keyboards such as the Poker series or Ducky mini, etc? All have a standard layout, LED options, anti-ghosting (I think), a choice of switches and a certain ability to customise fn layers.

Two words. Fuck off.

Hi - I like to think we're all friends here. We help newcomers and share information because we share a love of keyboards.

However the beginning of this thread, and some of the follow up posts, sound to me like they could lead to an unfortunate situation, e.g.:

https://medium.com/@rboyd/our-team-won- ... f1d1f1f267

Loliplol: Before asking us to do your work for you, perhaps spend some time reading through the forums. There is a wealth of information ready and waiting, including many of the answers to your questions.

I suspect that, as soon as you started talking about patents or paid work, you scared some folks off. How about this: why not use this thread or a similar thread to get design review or community feedback? There is a subtle difference between "here, do my research for me" (what you've done) and "hi guys, how do you feel about an HHKB style Shift on my design?" (what Ellipse has done on his thread).

As I've said elsewhere: think about what you can contribute to the community and the knowledge base. You're designing a new keyboard, that's great! I'm sure folks will be happy to help. But don't expect us to do the hard work for you.

XMIT wrote:
think about what you can contribute to the community and the knowledge base.

You're designing a new keyboard, that's great!

Of course, I am a curmudgeonly old man and all that, but it seems to me that there have been far too many keyboard designs already put forward.

Thousands of engineers have been studying keyboard ergonomics since the 1970s (or decades before), and there have been a small handful of "hits" and hundreds of "misses" in the layout game. There is not even consensus on the fundamental ANSI/ISO debate! Or optimum size, for that matter.

We all have our pet peeves and pet wishes, but fussing about extremely minute tweaks to existing layouts seems silly to me. There are far more important things to spend energy on. Why re-invent the wheel?

I have no mercy for the sociopath idiotic unfinanced entrepreneur (read part 1 and 2, understand it, then look at the OP again). A sociopath because he doesn't give a fuck about us (didn't bother to become a part of this community), yet tries to play us with that "we're the best", and "there's a job in it for you" (liar!). Unless he's a 12 years old brat, this kind of asshole insults my intelligence. In my experience as a small business web development company which likes to work with startups and gets to deal with this kind of character regularly, this is a classic red flag. Don't fall for it and be kind. Fuck him.

Or should I say, hi Lopliplop, don't give a fuck about getting to know you and build a relationship, but people told me you're the best! You rule bro! Oh man you're the best. Hey, help me out, there's a paid job in it for you, real money man, if you would be so kind to fuck off. Really! There's money here. Not.

The funny part of all this is that the narcissism of this guy prevented him to recognize his idiocy to think this would work. For the members who like to answer or help him, you're kind and that speaks in your advantage, but naive. Come on, you feel there's something wrong about his narrative at least. He's here for himself, trying to use you. And he's no Steve Jobs, where this would be profitable. We're quite helpful and friendly here. But sometimes you should just tell: fuck off. You think I'm rude? If he was for real he wouldn't have used the narrative "you're the best" and "you can earn a job", while not having any money or talent.

Aye. If you want to work with us, then work *with* us. And if you want to sell to us, that's fine, but have something ready to sell!


@Fohat: Because all you have to do is read the letters aloud to know how broken it is! QWERTYUIOP? What the flying fingers are 4 of the 5 vowels doing all the way up there? While the 5th one is on a pinkie finger? Madness! And then look at that way you stretch out over your numpad to reach your mouse. And what's Scroll Lock for again anyway? Is there really a need for CAPS LOCK RIGH THERE BESIDE ONE OF THE MOST COMMONLY PRESSED LETTERS? Ooops. I could go on for quite a while…

Mind, I'm typing this on QWERTY, thanks to muscle memory, so hypocrisy charge accepted! But at least it's my SSK, and Caps Lock is my Control key.

Muirium wrote: @Fohat: Because all you have to do is read the letters aloud to know how broken it is!

I sometimes daydream about the time when I retire and can let go of working with numbers on a regular/constant basis - ie - no numpad.

Then I think about re-training my ancient muscle memory. I learned to type on a manual typewriter in high school typing class in 1968 (my father told me that I was going to college and that learning to type was more important than shop class (where all of my friends were - he was right)) and Colemak seems like the best ticket.

But maybe not - why bother?

Only the qHack gets away with it! Have my minions finished it yet? HAS IT SHIPPED YET?!

Oh man...I feel bad for egging this guy on in the first place now. Absolute cringe-fest

This is where he lost all credibility lol. Talking about innovation and all new affordable gaming keyboards but what he described as ground breaking and special is basically every custom keyboard ever.
Also, the screenshots of "his" design is the most standard 60% layout you can buy (except for the really strange arrow keys)

Loliplol wrote:

scottc wrote: So... it's just a normal 60%?

Nope, it's a gaming 60% keyboard. Since we will be using Cherry MX Red switches with full anti ghosting. Also, you will enable to remap any key on the keyboard (or do anything with them, it's open source) and it will be fully customisable.

I wasn't going to be so cynical quite yet. I figured that perhaps this message was lost in translation due to cultural norms, etc. Or maybe I'm too nice (ha!). Here's how I read the OP:

"Hi guys! I'm working on a new custom keyboard design. I'm hoping to design it this way, with your feedback. I have an idea but limited skills so I'd appreciate any help you can offer."

DT has a history of welcoming new folks who are working on custom keyboards. Though, they typically come here somewhat later in the game, with a nearly finalized product, or at the very least, a clear vision.

Just because the QWERTY layout is dominant doesn't stop folks from trying. I'm somewhat friendly with the folks at Keyboard.io and know their motivations for creating a hardware startup. Jesse wanted something that worked better for him than a Kinesis keyboard, and wanted to build something that he could sell to others. I'm not sure how popular his keyboard will be with DT folks but at least he has a clear vision of what he is doing, how, and why. (Disclaimer: I supported Keyboard.io on Kickstarter and hope to have a board in my hands next summer.)

To the OP: asking professionals to donate skills to a stranger for free is somewhat insulting, and saying there are work opportunities can be patronizing depending on who is reading it. Coaches and personal trainers don't work for free, nor do photographers. In fact there are many parallels in parts of this story to the photography world. So many new photographers are lured in by lines like "give us a free photo, this could lead to more work for you".

Hm, I was trying not to be cynical as well. FWIW, I'm far too lazy to mock up a full design for him (though I'm also by no means a professional)...I was just going to offer criticism (hopefully creative) on designs that he came up with.

I guess, the thing is, I had a pretty nice welcome here when I 'arrived' about a month ago with plans for my own custom keyboard. Admittedly, I wasn't planning to sell it commercially, just to make it for myself, and I was not asking for completely new designs, just feedback on my minorly tweaked ISO layout. I thought it would be worth passing that welcome/constructive feedback on.

Okay, this one is going in the wrong direction. Posts like "f*ck off" are first, showing what kind of person you are, and second, you ain't friendly at all.

Guys like @Plasmodium and @Muirium (and others) wrote helpful post and we were talking about what switches to use, what design is better, how to make it thinner/lighter etc.

webwit wrote: yet tries to play us with that "we're the best", and "there's a job in it for you" (liar!). Unless he's a 12 years old brat, this kind of asshole insults my intelligence.

That your opinion, and that's okay. Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion. But, I was just looking for tips how to make a better keyboard, nothing else. And now, I'm a "sociopath idiotic unfinanced entrepreneur"? For asking help? Okay, your opinion.

I really don't want to fight, I was trying to have a normal discussion here.

Loliplol wrote: I really don't want to fight, I was trying to have a normal discussion here.

Okay, let's start over. What exactly are you hoping to find here? The OP was sort of a mishmash of topics.

If it is information about switches: please ask specific questions, and use the "search" feature to try to answer your own questions. Your comments earlier on about "pimpmykeyboard.com" demonstrated a fundamental lack of understanding of the forum's search feature.

A search for "pimpmykeyboard.com" turn sup countless articles about Signature Plastics and our interaction with them over the years. tl;dr: They are a custom plastics company located in in the US (Washington state) and just about the only suppliers of spherical key caps these days. There are other manufacturers out there. You probably want to deal directly with a Taiwanese company like Tai-Hao if you are going to be shipping in any volume.

My experience is that gamers prefer linear switches with a relatively low distance to actuation because this allows them to mash keys repeatedly easily. They are typically not touch typing when playing a game. Some have heavier hands and different styles and may prefer a lighter or heavier switch.

As a hardware supplier you'll need to strike a balance between cost and quality. It seems like Gateron switches could be a good fit for product.

If you are an employer and looking to hire for a paid position - can you please post a formal job description somewhere, perhaps in a new thread? Other folks can decide whether or not that's a good idea but at least this is a starting point.

You mentioned a company. What company is this? What is the name of the company? Do you have a Web site? You didn't offer one in the OP which I think makes some folks suspicious.

Again, I think you scared some folks with intellectual property issues. We've got a challenging history with these issues on this forum. In part, many of us are in different countries around the world with very different intellectual property laws. There was a long thread (search for it) about the IP implications of releasing a clone of Soarer's Converter. For everyone's sake, it is easier if you assume that anything on this forum is public domain and/or under some open source license. More generally, patents are protectionist and demonstrate closure, not openness. Why do you feel the need to patent your ideas?

I understand how all of this can be confusing to a newcomer. You'll scare a lot of folks off if you make them think that you're trying to take advantage of the forums for free help.

kbdfr wrote: <crisps>

Why is this so funny?

webwit wrote: For the members who like to answer or help him, you're kind and that speaks in your advantage, but naive.

I'm not naïve, I just don't think there is yet enough information to judge.

... And I love talking about this stuff, and trying to influence.

This is my design:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=d ... 9898;image

It's not patented, and is public domain.

This is another design, more radical.

The design is not patented by its own. But it _could_ involve some features from other keyboards that _may_ be patented, for example, the TypeMatrix.