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Posted: 08 Dec 2012, 23:37
by kbdfr
7bit wrote:
kbdfr wrote:
7bit wrote:Datenfreigabe and Groß FTW!
I mean 1.25 "Strg" keycaps. I can't remember having seen many of them in the last 15 to 20 years :mrgreen:
1.25 units are not necessary anymore.

Nowadays, we exclusively use 1, 1.5 and 2 units.
:ugeek:

Also, what is Strg anyway?

Strang?
Streng?
String?
Strong?
Strung?
:roll:
Störung :lol:

Posted: 08 Dec 2012, 23:38
by Soarer
Strg'n'off.

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 01:49
by Findecanor
damorgue wrote:
rodtang wrote:Us proud Norwegians would need these :geek: :
Image
Below the "6 &" key you have marked there is an almost identical one. It only adds another character.
The character that would be added is incorrect for Norwegian layout. Incorrect for Swedish and German too.
"6 &" needs to remain in the set.

I restate my position: Correctness is imperative; A character should not be on the key if it is not in the keymap.
However, if a character from the Alt Gr-layer or the Shift-Alt Gr-layer is missing from a key, then I would not consider that a big deal.

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 08:46
by 7bit
So can we remove all Alt Gr stuff from the key caps (saving 17 key caps)?

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 10:09
by Grond
This looks even better for me! It would make an almost perfect italian set. ;)

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 10:29
by 7bit
Grond wrote:This looks even better for me! It would make an almost perfect italian set. ;)
Great! When we save 17 key caps, maybe we can add the 24 French ones ...
:shock:

Re: ISO-layouts (DE/ES/FI/IT/NO/PT/SE/UK)

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 10:40
by GMC
BimboBB wrote:
GMC wrote:Tbh if we had all the us international symbols on the standard us keys, I'd be happier, though it would not be the ideal solution.
Image
US International ISO by Gregor.Mc, on Flickr
Tripleshots? :)
According to the sp website they can do tripleshot but I'd hate to think of the setup cost. The additional colour just happens to be in the image I used. If molds exist to doubleshot therlse legends that would seem to me to be the perfect keyset for a 60% board...

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 11:17
by Grond
Tripleshots may be beautiful for some keycaps, but it's not the solution to the problem.

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 11:20
by Ekaros
I'm not sure getting rid of third-layer would be wise, I like to have those...

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 14:21
by Findecanor
7bit wrote:So can we remove all Alt Gr stuff from the key caps (saving 17 key caps)?
I'm just saying that it would be fine by me.

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 14:28
by korne
I prefer to get all the keys, in my opinion is the best option to get all users happy :)

Spanish will miss those keys if we skip the Alt gr Stuff

Image

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 14:53
by damorgue
Just saying that I would rather have a cap which has more legends to suit more layouts than one which doesn't show all the characters the cap is capable of. For instance, the bottom three <> keys where the one to the right would suit more people. The extra legends doesn't pose problems, it is nthe lack of legends which does in my opinion. Hence, out of the three all but the right one can be removed since they are contained within the rightmost one.

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 15:19
by rodtang
I'm for having all caps without adding or removing any legends.

Good to see we're not including the Danes in on this, forcing them to use the Norwegian layout! :twisted:

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 15:54
by kbdfr
damorgue wrote:Just saying that I would rather have a cap which has more legends to suit more layouts than one which doesn't show all the characters the cap is capable of. For instance, the bottom three <> keys where the one to the right would suit more people. The extra legends doesn't pose problems, it is nthe lack of legends which does in my opinion. […]
I disagree. In this case one would have to remember, for example, which of the several keycaps then showing a | actually produces a |.

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 16:04
by rodtang
In the case of the >< key, I am having a hard time finding a layout that has a broken bar on that key beside Tibetan which isn't in this group...

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 20:10
by 7bit
rodtang wrote:In the case of the >< key, I am having a hard time finding a layout that has a broken bar on that key beside Tibetan which isn't in this group...
Image
I've taken that from wikipedia. Should have looked at Cherry key caps instead.

On my Krankenversichertenkartentastatur ist nur > < |
:o

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 20:29
by rodtang
7bit wrote:Image
I've taken that from wikipedia. Should have looked at Cherry key caps instead.

On my Krankenversichertenkartentastatur ist nur > < |
:o
Ok... Old German keyboard like G80-1000, G80-150, G80-1600 and the Phoneboard had both | and ¦ but modern German boards only have |...

Posted: 09 Dec 2012, 20:49
by rodtang
The § | key on Norwegian boards used to be § ¦ so if you're aiming at having authentic G80-1000 boards you'll have to include that one as well :evilgeek:

Posted: 10 Dec 2012, 07:22
by kbdfr
rodtang wrote:[…] Old German keyboard like G80-1000, G80-150, G80-1600 and the Phoneboard had both | and ¦ but modern German boards only have |...
Not quite sure.
I have a (German) G81-1000 produced in 1993 with both | and ¦ on the >< keycap,
but a (German) G80-1600 produced in 1988 where the cap only has ¦.

Do "national" layouts with both | and ¦ really generate two different characters?
What I mean is, does it make a difference on modern computer whether you press | or ¦?

Posted: 10 Dec 2012, 08:18
by rodtang
kbdfr wrote:What I mean is, does it make a difference on modern computer whether you press | or ¦?
Turns out they were the same thing before the 90's and now they're different so they should make the vertical bar on German boards but modern boards that have both should print them both and some layouts might have the broken bar via AltGr (Norwegian doesn't)... :roll:

Posted: 10 Dec 2012, 09:44
by Broadmonkey
damorgue wrote:Just saying that I would rather have a cap which has more legends to suit more layouts than one which doesn't show all the characters the cap is capable of....
For the love of god NO! The whole reason why I love my DK Cherry DS is because I finally get rid of cramped keys with legends that's already on other keys.

To make the kit fit DK it needs:
<>\
´`|
½§ (the same as NO but with the legends swapped)

Posted: 10 Dec 2012, 13:51
by 7bit
kbdfr wrote: Do "national" layouts with both | and ¦ really generate two different characters?
What I mean is, does it make a difference on modern computer whether you press | or ¦?
There exist(ed) systems where | and ¦ had different meanings, but don't ask me which ...

In UNIX it is the same, just a different style, like a slashed 0.

Posted: 11 Dec 2012, 20:05
by Half-Saint
What keyboard is this for?

Posted: 11 Dec 2012, 20:38
by 7bit
Half-Saint wrote:What keyboard is this for?
Hyper! Any will do.
:ugeek:

Or for a G80-5000!
:evilgeek:

Posted: 16 Dec 2012, 12:06
by Kurk
7bit wrote: Also, what is Strg anyway?

Strang?
Streng?
String?
Strong?
Strung?
:roll:
Störung

On topic: I really like the idea of an complete-ISO-addon set. Unfortunately for me I'm from Dvorakistan. MMmmh, how about a set that combines the necessary addon keys for Dvorak, Colemak and Neo?

Posted: 16 Dec 2012, 12:52
by rodtang
Kurrk wrote:On topic: I really like the idea of an complete-ISO-addon set. Unfortunately for me I'm from Dvorakistan. MMmmh, how about a set that combines the necessary addon keys for Dvorak, Colemak and Neo?
You want an addon set with this in it?
Image
A Colemak/Dvorak set might be more sane as it has 9 keys in common with a total of 38 keys in the set.

Posted: 16 Dec 2012, 13:13
by phetto
Nice work, as always =)

Posted: 17 Dec 2012, 12:37
by Kurk
rodtang wrote:You want an addon set with this in it?
<<<<image>>>>
A Colemak/Dvorak set might be more sane as it has 9 keys in common with a total of 38 keys in the set.
I didn't spend too much thought about how large this set would be. It looks a bit..... expensive :cry:
A Colemak/Dvorak set might indeed be more sane. The thing is: I'd really love to see a Dvorak option in future GWK group buys and I'm sure that a few Colemak heads would like to have their favorite layout poured in plastic as well.

Posted: 17 Dec 2012, 17:00
by damorgue
rodtang wrote: Image
I may have misunderstood that but:
Yes, Z is in a different position, but remains in the same row. It doesn't need to be in the add-on set then, does it? This may be true for some other as well.

Edit: I checked, none of the others seem to be on the same row as standard layout, my bad. Well, at least it is one less cap in the add-on set.

Posted: 17 Dec 2012, 17:22
by rodtang
damorgue wrote:Yes, Z is in a different position, but remains in the same row. It doesn't need to be in the add-on set then, does it? This may be true for some other as well.
It seems like that picture might be basted on QWERTZ or something but you're right, that's one less in the addon set even though it is probably just as good just to buy a complete NEO set.