deskthority

My microphone should help my memory. I've recordings of every keyboard I've come across in recent years!

You're right about the Realforce: my experience with the genuine article was 002's tourer. A fullsize ANSI ergo Realforce in classic white. I liked it, but wasn't in love with it quite the way I was with the little HHKB. Anyway, soon enough now. It's been a long wait…

It seems your experience with the variable RF104 was not a tour de [Real]force on the part of this particular Topre. Alternatively, we might say it didn't pass the touring test. A mere spiritless machine after all.

I must say that I am being swayed by symmetry and small size, although a keyboard must have additional charms to be a winner. For example, despite its 60% form factor, the Poker II has never been a serious contender for top spot in my keyboard lineup. In contrast, the HHKB Pro 2 manages to be more than the sum of its parts, engendering emotional attachment rather than mere preference.

Hypersphere wrote:

Muirium wrote: I'm an IBM guy for the most part. No shortage of loud boards here either!

The few days I had an HHKB last year (DanielT's standard black model, on its way via proxy) were enough to confirm that it lives up to my expectations. Superb, essentially ideal form factor and layout. Better feel than even a Realforce. The Type-S will have a lot to prove.

Which RF have you tried? If memory serves, I think it was a variable RF104. I have never tried the full-size and/or a Topre variable, but the sound and feel of the RF87u 55g is superb. However, it seems that the more keyboards I try, the more I gravitate toward the 60% form factor. And the HHKB Pro 2 layout is tops in my book. Putting this together, I think the nearly perfect board would be a HHKB Pro 2 with plate-mounted 55g Topre switches. The jury is still out for me regarding standard vs. silenced, although I am leaning toward favoring the standard model. I am really looking forward to your impressions of the Type-S in the context of what you can recall about the non-silenced version.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the HHKB Pro 2 is excellent as it is. IMHO, the 45 gram switches feel very well suited to it. I like the 55 grams too on the RF87u but there is just something magically about the feeling the HHKB provides. Its feels tight and just right. As you can tell, I am struggling to the find the correct words to fully express myself. I think the type-s can't better it

Something we often overlook is the HHKB's physical weight. It's a light little board, very much on purpose. The lighter the keyboard, the better light weighted switches go with it.

Actually, I agree. Whenever I write that the HHKB Pro 2 might be improved by having plate-mounted 55g switches, I hesitate for the very reasons Mu and ShivaYash have cited. There is a certain "rightness" to the overall design just as it is. The case-mounted switches provide a certain amount of give that contributes to the sprightly springiness of the keyboard's response, and this feeling might become too unyielding and harsh with heavier plate-mounted switches. Nevertheless, there are those who would like to see these and other features (such as Bluetooth) at least as options in a future version of the HHKB.

ShivaYash wrote: <snip>
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. <snip>

This philosophy is often wise and prudent, but the mark of a keyboard enthusiast is to mod it whether or not it "needs" to be modded. We mod the keyboard because it is there. It is a way of putting our mark on things. For many, the HHKB Pro 2 is fine as it is, but others would have it quieter, and so the Type-S was born (but for those without the ready cash, various silencing mods were invented). Some would have heavier switches, and so 55g dome swaps are carried out. Others wish for plate-mounted switches as an option, and so this opinion is voiced for PFU/Topre to hear. As for me, so far I am content merely to change some keycaps around; at the moment, my black HHKB Pro 2 is wearing blue alphas with the original black mods and spacebar.

Hypersphere wrote:

ShivaYash wrote: <snip>
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. <snip>

This philosophy is often wise and prudent, but the mark of a keyboard enthusiast is to mod it whether or not it "needs" to be modded. We mod the keyboard because it is there. It is a way of putting our mark on things. For many, the HHKB Pro 2 is fine as it is, but others would have it quieter, and so the Type-S was born (but for those without the ready cash, various silencing mods were invented). Some would have heavier switches, and so 55g dome swaps are carried out. Others wish for plate-mounted switches as an option, and so this opinion is voiced for PFU/Topre to hear. As for me, so far I am content merely to change some keycaps around; at the moment, my black HHKB Pro 2 is wearing blue alphas with the original black mods and spacebar.

I agree H.

Although what you describe reminds me of an advert I saw for VW Golf once... "Somethings are best left alone. Golf"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy20HpzruDo

Enjoy

Muirium wrote: I've recordings of every keyboard I've come across in recent years!

Do you have a partner? What does (s)he say when you listen to your CDs?
- "Best of Keyboards - Box 1: the Roots. From Blickensderfer to Spring Beams"
- "Best of Keyboards - Box 2: the Cherry MX Years"
- "Best of Keyboards - Box 3: Buckling is Back!"
- "Best of Keyboards - Box 4: Wisdom from the East. Topres and undiscovered treasures from Japan & Korea"

pietergen wrote:

Muirium wrote: I've recordings of every keyboard I've come across in recent years!

Do you have a partner? What does (s)he say when you listen to your CDs?
- "Best of Keyboards - Box 1: the Roots. From Blickensderfer to Spring Beams"
- "Best of Keyboards - Box 2: the Cherry MX Years"
- "Best of Keyboards - Box 3: Buckling is Back!"
- "Best of Keyboards - Box 4: Wisdom from the East. Topres and undiscovered treasures from Japan & Korea"

I record keyboards too and then make them into ringtones for my iPhone. I'm married and have children, so for a while at least, we are stuck with each other!

My keyboard recordings add up to all of 20 minutes, total, I'd guess. And they aren't in my iTunes library, they're on my Dropbox. Along with my song ideas and all manner of inexplicable projects.

It takes a real close, understanding, and forgiving relationship to share access to your Dropbox! I'm hesitant. Besides, Condoleeza Rice is already rummaging around in there…

Hypersphere wrote: the mark of a keyboard enthusiast is to mod it whether or not it "needs" to be modded. We mod the keyboard because it is there.

THIS. Electric guitar players always "mod" their guitars and amps, bicycle geeks change all parts of their bikes, and so on. A true geek only leaves uninteresting stuff stock. He (most of the time we are talking about males)does so to save time, that he then spends on modding stuff that *is* interesting.

Muirium wrote: It takes a real close, understanding, and forgiving relationship...

Real love: being invited over for a glass of wine and listening to his/her personal keyboard recordings....

That's before they even see the keyboards…

http://deskthority.net/for-sale-f55/rou ... al#p196215

Ha hah ha, I didn't know that one

ShivaYash wrote:

pietergen wrote: I record keyboards too and then make them into ringtones for my iPhone. I'm married and have children, so for a while at least, we are stuck with each other!

ShivaYash wrote: <snip>

I agree H.

Although what you describe reminds me of an advert I saw for VW Golf once... "Somethings are best left alone. Golf"
<snip>
Enjoy

Indeed. Golf is something I leave alone. I like the way Winston Churchill put it:

“Golf is a game whose aim is to hit a very small ball into an ever smaller hole, with weapons singularly ill-designed for the purpose.”

It's a car…

He's in USA...A Golf to them is like a ride-on lawn mower! Not enough displacement!

I like the funny names American cars have. Why don't we ever see Lincolns, Chevys and Pontiacs over here?

Oh yeah, because fuel actually costs money in the outside world. Bummer!

in germany "Golf" is allways a car. It's a decent car. Every model gets bigger though.

Muirium wrote: It's a car…

Yes, Mu. It was an attempt at ironic humor.

BTW, over here, the VW Golf was called the VW Rabbit. Go figure.

Too sly for me! Blast.

Muirium wrote: I like the funny names American cars have. Why don't we ever see Lincolns, Chevys and Pontiacs over here?

Oh yeah, because fuel actually costs money in the outside world. Bummer!

I once had an Oldsmobile with a V8 engine. At that time, gasoline in my neck of the woods was selling at 15 cents per US gallon. Those days are long gone, however.

I don't drive. But I can tell you fuel is way more expensive over here. And we are a fellow oil producing nation! It's all tax, tax, tax, tax…

Lowest pump price for unleaded gas in Edinburgh right now is 103.9p per litre = 1.039 GBP per litre = £3.933/gal (British pounds per gallon) = $5.94 per gallon.

According to Wolfram Alpha, you guys are paying around $2.16 per gallon instead. So almost three times less!

It used to be much higher here quite recently, before the 2013 oil price slump. Since there's so little competitiveness between garages here, and so much pure unadulterated filthy tax, the pump price shoots all over the place day by day according to Brent Crude index prices. And you'll burn more fuel trying to shop around than you'll ever save.

Smart, aren't we?

Muirium wrote: I don't drive. But I can tell you fuel is way more expensive over here. And we are a fellow oil producing nation! It's all tax, tax, tax, tax…

Lowest pump price for unleaded gas in Edinburgh right now is 103.9p per litre = 1.039 GBP per litre = £3.933/gal (British pounds per gallon) = $5.94 per gallon.

According to Wolfram Alpha, you guys are paying around $2.16 per gallon instead. So almost three times less!

It used to be much higher here quite recently, before the 2013 oil price slump. Since there's so little competitiveness between garages here, and so much pure unadulterated filthy tax, the pump price shoots all over the place day by day according to Brent Crude index prices. And you'll burn more fuel trying to shop around than you'll ever save.

Smart, aren't we?

Do bear in mind that the American gallon is not the Imperial gallon. Ours is 3.785 liters, yours is 4.546 liters. This also greatly affects fuel economy figures between the two countries.

I have an idea! Switch to METRIC!
GB is in the right track, but USA have been resisting for far too long...
Miles, inches, feet and oz, lbs, stones and gallons, pints, fl.oz and most of them different for American and Imperial...it isn't even funny...

Mal-2 wrote:

Muirium wrote: I don't drive. But I can tell you fuel is way more expensive over here. And we are a fellow oil producing nation! It's all tax, tax, tax, tax…

Lowest pump price for unleaded gas in Edinburgh right now is 103.9p per litre = 1.039 GBP per litre = £3.933/gal (British pounds per gallon) = $5.94 per gallon.

According to Wolfram Alpha, you guys are paying around $2.16 per gallon instead. So almost three times less!

It used to be much higher here quite recently, before the 2013 oil price slump. Since there's so little competitiveness between garages here, and so much pure unadulterated filthy tax, the pump price shoots all over the place day by day according to Brent Crude index prices. And you'll burn more fuel trying to shop around than you'll ever save.

Smart, aren't we?

Do bear in mind that the American gallon is not the Imperial gallon. Ours is 3.785 liters, yours is 4.546 liters. This also greatly affects fuel economy figures between the two countries.

What Muirium has calculated is British pounds per american gallon: 1.039*3.785 = 3.933

It really is that expensive over here.

Yup. That doesn't put off small women from blocking the narrow streets outside schools with their leviathan "Chelsea tractors" just to pick up their kid from hockey - "this is not a bus, eff off!" - but over here they have a smaller engine capacity at least. We don't have roads straight enough for big bastards like that to reach Vmax anyway!

chzel wrote: I have an idea! Switch to METRIC!
GB is in the right track, but USA have been resisting for far too long...
Miles, inches, feet and oz, lbs, stones and gallons, pints, fl.oz and most of them different for American and Imperial...it isn't even funny...

Not. Going. To. Happen.

The Americans love "their" system. Don't you know that *everybody" uses it? It's as patriotic as French fries and a hamburger - quarter pounder, enough said - because it's right there in the name: US Customary! As they say in Frenchland: le duh!!

The one that bothers me is "degrees". Americans invariably mean Fahrenheit, and the conversion for those just does my head in. Subtract 30 and divide by 2…? Use the same bloody zero will you! What is 0 Fahrenheit for, anyway? And why is blood temperature not 100.0º? Shouldn't a temperature scale be based on something strictly objective? It's not like length where we all agreed on different arbitrary rods!

Britain, as usual, is actually the worst. This place tried to go metric in the 1970s, but got stuck; largely because Rupert Murdoch decided to flex his media muscles to put a stop to it. So car makers here quote fuel efficiency in miles per litre! And yet supermarkets will not sell you a litre of milk… unless you want it rounded to pints!



Once the English put the Right Honourable Lord Sir Sith Master Nige Farrage in charge, the conversion back to British Imperial Dominion Units will be swift, I'm sure. Simultaneous to them dragging my wee "country" out of Europe, to much fanfare and inconvenience!

A temperature scale that makes some sense is that of absolute temperature in Kelvins. At least it avoids negative temperatures. As for the magnitude of a degree, I like Fahrenheit because the degrees are 1.8 times smaller than Celsius/Centigrade degrees. I am sensitive to changes in temperature, and I like a finer scale than the Centigrade scale, although I suppose people could use tenths of a degree.

I notice that in Britain, "semi-skimmed" milk is 1.7% milk fat, whereas in the US, it is 2%. But they don't say if this is based on volume or weight. And of course, 1.7 has two significant figures, whereas 2 has only one; therefore, on the US side we might have rounded up 1.7 to 2.

It's a wonder anything works in this global economy with most things being assembled in China based on designs generated elsewhere.

Hypersphere wrote: A temperature scale that makes some sense is that of absolute temperature in Kelvins. At least it avoids negative temperatures. As for the magnitude of a degree, I like Fahrenheit because the degrees are 1.8 times smaller than Celsius/Centigrade degrees. I am sensitive to changes in temperature, and I like a finer scale than the Centigrade scale, although I suppose people could use tenths of a degree.

That's the whole point of the metric system! It's easy to adapt the resolution by using decimals!
It's not like "It's 25 and 5/32ths today!"
Also Celsius degrees are just Kelvin offset! In everyday Celsius makes much more sense than Kelvin. How may times per day do you encounter minus temperatures (<32oF) and how far negative are they?

Hypersphere wrote: It's a wonder anything works in this global economy with most things being assembled in China based on designs generated elsewhere.

Have you ever tried PCB design? Mils and mm's mixed all over the place...