deskthority

Jan Pospisil wrote: 29 Apr 2021, 15:41 Has anyone tried the OKS+NG combo on later non-factory-lubed Alps?

NeK wrote: 29 Apr 2021, 15:34

inozenz wrote: 29 Apr 2021, 13:47 I live in Germany and went the extra mile to buy oks477 for 16€ 80ml and nygel767 31€ 50ml.

I plan on doing a test series, where I increase the amount of oks from 10%-90%, going in 10% steps to find the perfect amount for myself. If I reach a setisfying result, I'll repeat the test with 1% steps.

I got a chicony portable keyboard with white Alps switches from 1987. That board was so dirty, if you pressed a key it would stay down and not come back up. I cleaned it and had to remove the lube from the stem aswell, but the cleaning job really helped 10000 times. The sound is nice and you can press the keys fine but the binding is present. The typing experience is not satisfying enough to leave it that way.

The only issue is, that I have no spare time currently for any projects. This will probably happen around September/October.

I plan on documenting the process and results, this way everyone can see, if I do a good or bad job in lubing and hear the difference in viscosity.

I'll share my results once I got it done. Until then I keep on reading every information you guys hand out.

That's great, the more people test this mix its better for all. Just keep in mind that as far as I know all white skcm alps, have stems with the newer material which has lubricating properties by itself. For my white pine alps, OKS 477 alone transformed them to have very smooth and excellent feeling. So the 767A was not necessary for them. However I do still feel that a small part of 767A would make then perfectly smooth. So I would recommend to start with oks alone and after try with a little bit of 767A until you find the best mix. Maybe oks alone would be enough in this case.

Jan Pospisil wrote: 29 Apr 2021, 17:58 I have some bamboo white alps NOS and while the switch goes down ok, the tactility itself is kinda grainy. I was wondering if lube could improve that.

andresteare wrote: 29 Apr 2021, 18:13

Jan Pospisil wrote: 29 Apr 2021, 17:58 I have some bamboo white alps NOS and while the switch goes down ok, the tactility itself is kinda grainy. I was wondering if lube could improve that.

I suspect that's more of a tactile leaf issue, remove the leaf and you will have an awesome linear

Jan Pospisil wrote: 29 Apr 2021, 17:58 I have some bamboo white alps NOS and while the switch goes down ok, the tactility itself is kinda grainy. I was wondering if lube could improve that.

NeK wrote: 29 Apr 2021, 11:50

dc76 wrote: 29 Apr 2021, 03:01 TAI Lubricants is the official US Small Volume Distributor for Nye Lubricants.

Just pointing this as a form of warning: be careful, 774VH is substantially heavy whereas 774VL is way too light.

NyoGel 774VH: 16830 cSt *0.86 = 14473,8 cP @ 40c
NyoGel 774 = 5070 cSt *0.86 = 4360,2 cP @ 40c
NyoGel 774VL = 903 cSt *0.86 = 776,58 cP @ 40c

For comparison, the notoriously heavy 767A has this viscosity:
NyoGel 767A: 28185 cSt *0.87 = 24520,95 cP @ 40c

The reason I mix the 767A with OKS 477, is to make the mixed lube viscosity lighter.

The viscosity of OKS 477 is: 1600 cSt *0.87 = 1392 cP @40c

I cannot calculate the exact viscosity rating that the mix has. However it cannot possibly be lower than the 1392 cP of OKS 477. Probably it would be somewhere between that and the 24520 cP of NG 767A. I guess, with a mix of 80 767A - 20 477. Using simple logic, it should be somewhere in the ballpark of 60% - 90% of the viscosity of 767A. But I may be wrong and it could be way less than that. I don't know how mixing the lubes changes the mixed viscosity. So anyone wishing to try and buy one of the 774 series should have this in mind.

This is only my guess, but anything below the viscosity of OKS 477 is out of the question without any second though. So I think that at least the NG 774 would be needed. However, it too may prove to be too light, so I can't know for sure which one to try first. My *guess* is that the 774 or the 774H would be the sweetspot lube.

UPDATE:

now that I think about it, the NG 774VH has about half (55%) of the viscosity of 767A. Maybe *that* one would be the best? Also there is another option the 774H which is in between the 774VH and 774. Maybe that would be the one.

In any case, I think it is clear by now, that the Nye company offers so many options and they are so specialized in lubes, that it probably has a product that can easily replace the OG lube.

dc76 wrote: 29 Apr 2021, 21:22

NeK wrote: 29 Apr 2021, 11:50

dc76 wrote: 29 Apr 2021, 03:01 TAI Lubricants is the official US Small Volume Distributor for Nye Lubricants.

Just pointing this as a form of warning: be careful, 774VH is substantially heavy whereas 774VL is way too light.

NyoGel 774VH: 16830 cSt *0.86 = 14473,8 cP @ 40c
NyoGel 774 = 5070 cSt *0.86 = 4360,2 cP @ 40c
NyoGel 774VL = 903 cSt *0.86 = 776,58 cP @ 40c

For comparison, the notoriously heavy 767A has this viscosity:
NyoGel 767A: 28185 cSt *0.87 = 24520,95 cP @ 40c

The reason I mix the 767A with OKS 477, is to make the mixed lube viscosity lighter.

The viscosity of OKS 477 is: 1600 cSt *0.87 = 1392 cP @40c

I cannot calculate the exact viscosity rating that the mix has. However it cannot possibly be lower than the 1392 cP of OKS 477. Probably it would be somewhere between that and the 24520 cP of NG 767A. I guess, with a mix of 80 767A - 20 477. Using simple logic, it should be somewhere in the ballpark of 60% - 90% of the viscosity of 767A. But I may be wrong and it could be way less than that. I don't know how mixing the lubes changes the mixed viscosity. So anyone wishing to try and buy one of the 774 series should have this in mind.

This is only my guess, but anything below the viscosity of OKS 477 is out of the question without any second though. So I think that at least the NG 774 would be needed. However, it too may prove to be too light, so I can't know for sure which one to try first. My *guess* is that the 774 or the 774H would be the sweetspot lube.

UPDATE:

now that I think about it, the NG 774VH has about half (55%) of the viscosity of 767A. Maybe *that* one would be the best? Also there is another option the 774H which is in between the 774VH and 774. Maybe that would be the one.

In any case, I think it is clear by now, that the Nye company offers so many options and they are so specialized in lubes, that it probably has a product that can easily replace the OG lube.

Cool, thanks for the information.
I took a look at those viscosities, saw how different they were and didn't even think of mixing it with something.

I received a reply back from the TAI Lubricants rep about the 774, here's what I got in reply:

Spoiler:

Thank you for your interest in Nye's Nyogel 774. We only carry this in a 500 gram jar. These are currently on back order with Nye until June 4th. Price per 500 gram jar is $169.95.

There is no minimum order. We accept Visa/MasterCard/American Express/Discover.

If you have any other questions before ordering, please feel free to contact me. I look forward to doing business.

Enjoy the day. Be safe.

Ouch, 500 grams is a lot of lubricant to be unsure about purchasing and get stuck with, lol.
I'm going to keep looking, hopefully I can find a smaller amount before TAI's 774 comes off backorder. Otherwise, I'll probably bite the bullet and just grab the 500g jar.

I'll take a look at getting some 774H as well.

andresteare wrote: 30 Apr 2021, 01:53 Guys, I have good news: China to the rescue!
You can purchase Nyogel 760G, Threebond TB1855, OKS-477 and Nyogel 774H on Taobao, so it's not that hard to get them anymore .

Of course I secured my purchase of 477 and 774h before sharing the links

ps: forgot to mention also that the links I shared offer them in small format so you don't have to buy a bucket of lube

headphone_jack wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 14:23

andresteare wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 01:09 Ok I know this sounds like a normie suggestion but take a look at Super Lube® Silicone Lubricating Grease with Syncolon®

Captura de pantalla 2021-04-27 190301.png

Grade 2, super duper viscous, and complemented PTFE

I've got a tube of this already for lubing stabs with. I'll give it a whirl on some switches later.

NeK wrote: 30 Apr 2021, 10:20 Wow good news! Are you sure those are not fake though? How do you order? Please send me a pm.

NeK wrote: 30 Apr 2021, 10:20 Wow good news! Are you sure those are not fake though? How do you order? Please send me a pm.

andresteare wrote: 30 Apr 2021, 16:31

headphone_jack wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 14:23

andresteare wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 01:09 Ok I know this sounds like a normie suggestion but take a look at Super Lube® Silicone Lubricating Grease with Syncolon®

Captura de pantalla 2021-04-27 190301.png

Grade 2, super duper viscous, and complemented PTFE

I've got a tube of this already for lubing stabs with. I'll give it a whirl on some switches later.

any updates?

headphone_jack wrote: 01 May 2021, 00:44

andresteare wrote: 30 Apr 2021, 16:31

headphone_jack wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 14:23

I've got a tube of this already for lubing stabs with. I'll give it a whirl on some switches later.

any updates?

Based on first impressions...

Wow.

I really was not expecting this to work at all, but just from the single switch I lubed, it is extremely smooth. Better than both the Nyogel boards I did. I can't say anything about the longevity of this lube, but in my experience with stabs I've never needed to replace it, so it seems durable to me. One thing it does do, though, is mute the sound to a ridiculous level. I hope this will disappear with use, but I have yet to lube any boards with it, and don't really plan on it either. Someone else is welcome to try though!

headphone_jack wrote: 01 May 2021, 00:44

andresteare wrote: 30 Apr 2021, 16:31

headphone_jack wrote: 28 Apr 2021, 14:23

I've got a tube of this already for lubing stabs with. I'll give it a whirl on some switches later.

any updates?

Based on first impressions...

Wow.

I really was not expecting this to work at all, but just from the single switch I lubed, it is extremely smooth. Better than both the Nyogel boards I did. I can't say anything about the longevity of this lube, but in my experience with stabs I've never needed to replace it, so it seems durable to me. One thing it does do, though, is mute the sound to a ridiculous level. I hope this will disappear with use, but I have yet to lube any boards with it, and don't really plan on it either. Someone else is welcome to try though!

NeK wrote: 01 May 2021, 02:21

headphone_jack wrote: 01 May 2021, 00:44

andresteare wrote: 30 Apr 2021, 16:31

any updates?

Based on first impressions...

Wow.

I really was not expecting this to work at all, but just from the single switch I lubed, it is extremely smooth. Better than both the Nyogel boards I did. I can't say anything about the longevity of this lube, but in my experience with stabs I've never needed to replace it, so it seems durable to me. One thing it does do, though, is mute the sound to a ridiculous level. I hope this will disappear with use, but I have yet to lube any boards with it, and don't really plan on it either. Someone else is welcome to try though!

I am really glad that it worked. For the sound issue, I think that you could try to gentle wipe the stem and rails. This will remove most of the excess lube off but it will leave the lube that has already penetrated/satured the materials and therefore will still have same the smoothness without the muffling the sound.

dc76 wrote: 04 May 2021, 03:50 I am also going to try the Super Lube, since it's a good test in the meantime until the rest arrive.
Should be here wednesday, I'll report back with some results.


andresteare you bring up a great point about using heat to help with a thinner application. I'll probably try this if I have any issues.

dc76 wrote: 05 May 2021, 23:20 Okay, did a quick lube up of a single switch on the board.

Here's a video comparison:

Spoiler:

https://streamable.com/t7h28i

The lubed/unlubed/stock keys are

Spoiler:

O - cleaned then lubed with the SuperLube ; P - stock unopened(uncleaned, slightly dusty) ; [ - opened and cleaned, no lube applied

I'm not really sure yet. I really feel like I need to do the whole board to get an accurate assessment.
Overall, I would say that the feel is improved. There is more smoothness, but it doesn't feel drastically different from the stock unopened/uncleaned switch.

Here's a picture of the lube job on the slider.

Spoiler:

https://i.imgur.com/8zWMr8X.jpg

I opened the switch, cleaned it with a brush and blew out the dust.
After that, I stuck the tip of a different, smaller brush into the SuperLube and then painted the side of the can until I no longer saw any white, only a translucent shiny layer.
I lubed the slider all around and reassembled the switch.

If you have any suggestions, please drop them.
If you think my lube job wasn't adequate, or I put too much on etc just let me know and I can adjust to whatever technique you'd like to have replicated.

NeK wrote: 06 May 2021, 10:38 Regarding what I have said about the viscosity of a lubricant in the previous posts, I want to say that I have proved myself wrong.

According to the specfication of OKS 1110 grease, it is more viscous than OKS 477. However I tried it on an SKCM switch and it didn't have any positively effect, neither made it smoother nor eliminated the stick-slip. Actually I think it made it worse...

One difference between the 1110 and the 477 is that the former has PDMS (polydimethylsiloxane) as base oil where the 477 has PAO (polyalphaolefine) base oil.

This goes totally against what I said about viscosity and it proves that it is, in the end, as false as it can get.

I am really dissapointed at this point, so I decided to reach out for help to chemists/tribologists/specialists

NeK wrote: 06 May 2021, 10:38 Regarding what I have said about the viscosity of a lubricant in the previous posts, I want to say that I have proved myself wrong.

According to the specfication of OKS 1110 grease, it is more viscous than OKS 477. However I tried it on an SKCM switch and it didn't have any positively effect, neither made it smoother nor eliminated the stick-slip. Actually I think it made it worse...

One difference between the 1110 and the 477 is that the former has PDMS (polydimethylsiloxane) as base oil where the 477 has PAO (polyalphaolefine) base oil.

This goes totally against what I said about viscosity and it proves that it is, in the end, as false as it can get.

I am really dissapointed at this point, so I decided to reach out for help to chemists/tribologists/specialists and I posted a relevant question in the Chemistry Stack Exchange.

I hope that someone will provide some light on to this.