deskthority

Broadmonkey wrote:

damorgue wrote: You need to learn what MOQ means. Of course you are allowed to buy less than MOQ! (as long as you do what I explained above.) Take your time and read it through.

Tell me how you interpret this:

lysol wrote:Just in case there is any doubt, here is the copied text of email from GMK for rough price qoute...

As you already mentioned our production team is really busy for the next months. Because we are the only company working with the original cherry toolings, the demand is very high. I do see a chance for full sets in spring (April/May 2013). Unfortunately MOQ for full sets is 400, can´t make an exception in this case. The whole production process is very quantity-dependent. The price for a full set will be around 60€, but I have to run the whole calculation for a final price.
Regards
Christoph Kredler

I am slowly going insane over here, laughing and crying at the same time. You guys all need to learn what MOQ means. MOQ is only defined at a given price. Come on, this is middle school stuff. I have explained this in the past. I shall try and make it easier for you to understand this time:

Adam wants to sell John 10 apples for 10USD each, but John only wants to buy 8. Adam has a MOQ of 10 that is. John buys 8 apples at 12.5USD each. Adam WILL agree to this as he gets the same amount of money and can throw away the two extra or do as he pleases with them. John may also consider them to be two free apples if he is smart.

This is about as dumbed down I can make it.

It is called interpolation. Last time I explained this, eventually the people got it but then tried extrapolation, which doesn't work. THE WORST CASE SCENARIO IS THAT JOHN HAS TO PAY 12.5USD, AND IT HAPPENS IF THERE ARE ONLY FIXED COSTS. It can however be even lower if there are costs involved per unit.

Edit: Even lysol didn't get it back then, which made me worry, A LOT. You all need to grasp the concept of MOQ and that it is only valid at that exact price.

Have an apple for that extraordinary dumb explanation.
(not the dumbness is extraordinary; I used two adjectives)

Acanthophis wrote:Have an apple for that extraordinary dumb explanation.

Dumb explanations are needed for some apparently.

Edit: I was a bit rude, and I apologize for that, but at some point people have to grow up. I am tired of teaching high school logic around here. If people cares to read the post thoroughly and reflect upon it instead of immediately taking an opinion which they won't budge from, none of this would be necessary.

LOL damorgue, give it a rest, your pedantry is dumb

Group Buy Organizer - Hey everyone, good news! We can order only 300 sets for 80 each!

Group Buyers - Isn't that the same as 400 sets at 60?

Group Buy Organizer - Yes! I'm going to keep the extra 100 sets and make profit!

Group Buyers - Whaaaa ... Burn him!!

Soarer wrote:LOL damorgue, give it a rest, your pedantry is dumb

Group Buy Organizer - Hey everyone, good news! We can order only 300 sets for 80 each!

Group Buyers - Isn't that the same as 400 sets at 60?

Group Buy Organizer - Yes! I'm going to keep the extra 100 sets and make profit!

Group Buyers - Whaaaa ... Burn him!!

GB organiser's fault if he proceeds this stupidly.
Go for 300 sets at 60, GB organiser sells the 100 sets for 80 afterwards.
Where is the harm in that?

Acanthophis wrote: GB organiser's fault if he proceeds this stupidly.
Go for 300 sets at 60, GB organiser sells the 100 sets for 80 afterwards.
Where is the harm in that?

Or he throws them away. Or GMK throws them away. Or GMK doesn't produce the extra sets as they aren't needed. Either way, people read into the "Minimum" of MOQ and blindly ignore how it actually works.

The example suggested in the other thread was this, and it scared me:

If John want to buy 20 apples, he can buy them for 5USD each from Adam.

This is by no means guaranteed as it requires all the costs to be fixed for it to be true. I find it weird that people needs this to be explained to them, and on top of that, they argue the logic.

I'm tired of getting thread notifications about a keyboard when you people aren't talking about the keyboard at all, but instead, you are pedantically squabbling over terminology unrelated to this thread. Please take it elsewhere.

There is no keyboard, this is an IC.
And if you're getting tired of notifications, delete your subscription. It ain't that hard...

@topic
How are the chances for the qHack?

are potential prices listed somewhere ?

anyways i'd be in for a Hypermini Hack, but well if it isn't cheaper than a HHKB.. yknow =P

Acanthophis wrote:There is no keyboard, this is an IC.
And if you're getting tired of notifications, delete your subscription. It ain't that hard...

Sorry if I used words that were too big for you to understand, I'll lower my speaking level for your convenience.

There is a keyboard being developed here.
I am interested in being notified of updates to this keyboard development.
Unlike some people on here, I don't have all day to camp on this forum.
If you want to talk about how to get smaller quantity of keys ordered from GMK, then go make a thread for that.
Quit cluttering up the discussion about this keyboard project with posts not related to that.

Lastly, you sound like a tool when you argue against trying to keep a thread on-topic.

So let me be a tool, why not?
And there will be no significant updates on this project until 7bit worked out his current GBs. He stated that here and there.
I guess your fancy notification thingy didn't pick that up, or you simply forgot, don't know, don't care.

Thanks for making your sentences understandable. Me as a non-native in English can't comprehend the massive amount of cryptology you used for your previous sentences. Glad I do understand you now, thanks!

Ishumprod wrote:are potential prices listed somewhere ?

anyways i'd be in for a Hypermini Hack, but well if it isn't cheaper than a HHKB.. yknow =P

It will be cheaper than an hhkb of course . say 40€ max for pcb, 20 € for the plate 30€ for the switches and the case ....
So Maxing this out gives us a 90€ price (and i think i'm way over the final price).

The phantom was not so expensive.
You just have to solder it, add diodes, controller , program controller etc.
Some kind of work...

Gilgam wrote:It will be cheaper than an hhkb of course . say 40€ max for pcb, 20 € for the plate 30€ for the switches and the case ....
So Maxing this out gives us a 90€ price (and i think i'm way over the final price).

The phantom was not so expensive.
You just have to solder it, add diodes, controller , program controller etc.
Some kind of work...

30€ for both the switches and the case seems like an underestimation to me.

sorry, the case was not included of course (unless cardboard one:-) ).

Well, in fact gimpster is right, this is a keyboard layout discussion thread, not a thread about what labels will be on key caps or where key caps will be sourced.

In simple terms:
We discuss here how switches (Alps or Cherry) should be arranged on a PCB.

So let me be a tool,

I thought there was a typo tool/fool
LOL !

More seriously i understand that noise/signal is way too high on this thread, but this is conversations use to be. You start by a subject and it changes as time goes.

Maybe Gimpster should have been less rude in his first phrase ?
Maybe Acanthophis should have answered more politely ?

Let's hear 7bit wise voice

7bit wrote:Erhem, ...
Please open a new thread for your key caps MOQ discussion.
Thanks!

Gilgam wrote:

Gilgam wrote:

Ishumprod wrote:are potential prices listed somewhere ?

anyways i'd be in for a Hypermini Hack, but well if it isn't cheaper than a HHKB.. yknow =P

It will be cheaper than an hhkb of course . say 40€ max for pcb, 20 € for the plate 30€ for the switches and the case ....
So Maxing this out gives us a 90€ price (and i think i'm way over the final price).

The phantom was not so expensive.
You just have to solder it, add diodes, controller , program controller etc.
Some kind of work...

so supposing i get my own case ( if it is not buisness-breaker for you to send me a case .str file) and a plate ( same story )

it would become a 70€ keyboard.. sweet !!

Nearly, if not less.
But you have to do it a la mano

The signal to noise ratio on this thread is so horrible that I actually put reading it on my ToDo list. >_<

Here is a short summary.
1. Switch manufacturer: This is a cherry project. Alps is an option for later. Other stuff is too complicated.
2. Switch type: Plate mounted because there is no room for the holes that PCB mounted switches need.
3. Layout: A million have been proposed. About 1000 will be supported by the PCB. Jury is still out on the plate.
4. Controller: Teensy, Controller placement: Under the board somewhere.
5. Size: The Mini will fit a Poker case. The Micro will be smaller.
6. Cases: No plans for the Micro, Poker cases are available elsewhere.

Last PCB: http://deskthority.net/post84083.html#p84083
This "layout supports symmetric 1/4-stagger layout, 7bit, ANSI, ISO, HHKB-JP and matrix layout!"

Now I know nothing about keyboards but would something like this be interesting or even possible?
(top left is a tab not return of course)

That's a perfect layout for me

I'd probably swap Home/End, but that is a very nice layout.

Just remember to get a 6u spacebar from R4 or DSA spherical!

of course I was tired yesterday and I swapped some key.

this should be it
probably I would like it even more with the backspace on the first row...

I think it is possible. The HHKB Japanese layout has this staggering and I made sure this is possible.

Now add the remaining keys to the DSA extra kit!

7bit wrote:Now add the remaining keys to the DSA extra kit!

what the hell are those keys for?

Is a regular JIS bottom row possible to do on a HyperMini? I'm not sure I'd want it, but I want to know, just in case.

The HyperMicro is interesting. Count me in.

7bit wrote:

fruktstund wrote:I have a hard time understanding why they can't do sets with a lower MOQ, say one at 200.

I don't work in the plastics industry though, so it's not my area of expertise. Probably.

The serve the industry, not individuals. They think in pallets not boxes!

Just for comparison:
Matias Alps: MOQ: 200
Cherry MX: MOQ: 1000

However, just relax and wait until I've visited them.

Is the problem with Signature just that they are in the US, not Germany?

So how much does custom plate cost to make?