deskthority

Everything being produced in china is a global problem, but since like everything is produced there you can't blame individuals.
From getting a glance at massdrop i got the definite impression they were boasting to produce locally in the usa though. If they suggest such they should be true to that.

This whole Ergodox/Massdrop debate reminds me of watching my parents fight as a child.

"You're tearing the family apart! Is this my fault for all their fighting? Please, just stop!"

sordna wrote:...It's a brutal situation in the US with people making money by thinking of ways to make lawsuits (spill a hot coffee on yourself, ask for 1mil dollars in damages, it has happened way too often)...

and when they settle they let the victims sign a non disclosure agreement, so they can twist the story without the victim interfering

just my two cents

But seriously, take it to another thread.

@gdaian That gif makes me crave for garett's chicago mix.

I've seen a number of post regarding interest in getting additionals but out of curiosity. How many actually went through with getting additional pcbs or 2+ kits? I just got 1 kit as im only planning for home use only mounting them on my cheapo arm chair.

Hopefully there will be an ergodox 2.0 or maybe other spin-off project pop up in the distances future.

L!athus wrote: I've seen a number of post regarding interest in getting additionals but out of curiosity. How many actually went through with getting additional pcbs or 2+ kits? I just got 1 kit as im only planning for home use only mounting them on my cheapo arm chair.

I've ordered 2 full sets for work and home and 4 additional boards, so I could later experiment or build more keyboards as needed e.g. for my children or relatives.

BugBuster wrote:I've ordered 2 full sets for work and home and 4 additional boards, so I could later experiment or build more keyboards as needed e.g. for my children or relatives.

That's awesome . I almost did that.. But then I realized that any experiments I would want to do would probably involve capacitive touch sensing, or something besides cherry MX keys... And then I further realized that after I finish the firmware I have another (purely software...) project that I really wish to work on... But as it is, I got enough to make 4 complete boards (even though i already have a PCB only prototype)... Lol. I'll probably have to sell one or two once things settle down a bit..

BugBuster wrote:I've ordered 2 full sets for work and home and 4 additional boards, so I could later experiment or build more keyboards as needed e.g. for my children or relatives.

Thats 4 ergodoxxxx... Bet yours @ work would be in the limelight of office. I have only used more conventional full, tkl and most recent 60% kb but have yet to own a split kb. Ergodox would be my 1st attemp at a split ergo setup. To the best of my recollection of commercially available split in one form or another, non has tempted me as much as the ergodox does. All thanks to the works of Dox, biphany, litster and the rest that has make contributions to make this keyboard a reality.

ic07 wrote:But then I realized that any experiments I would want to do would probably involve capacitive touch sensing

Something like the cool leaf

webwit wrote:Oh fuck you and your apologies for a nasty ToS while repeatedly attacking a member who feels otherwise. Really. Fuck you. With your fabricated fantasy how a bad ToS doesn't matter, because you, the foreigner, can threaten with legal action. This is exactly the kind of stuff why entities like massdrop should be avoided and why they are a danger to a community. They are already polarizing it with their nasty, vile terms and with fanboys who aggressively excuse away anything with total bullshit.

How have I attacked you this time, friend?

I don't make any apologies for MD, just tried to provide the context in which they operate. Nor would I excuse away "anything". For example if they didn't ship me my headphone amp (which arrived BTW), or were uncommunicative I would be on here giving them shit for it. Fortunately for me, they provided excellent service, even shpping me a replacement amp when they couldn't find a tracking number for the original shipment.

You and a few others here seemed polarized against MD, but most people seem to be somewhere in the middle. Hardly "the community" as a whole, at least from what I've seen.

^ I caught you making up legal stuff where your aim was to misinforming the community. What a fail.

Can you take this pointless verbal diarrhea elsewhere? I am actually getting tired of checking up on this thread to find some new interesting input on what ideas people have for their ErgoDox, and finding some new rants by various people instead (I don't care by whom).

Here is a link to another section of the forum: http://deskthority.net/off-topic-f10/

Try to take it there.

webwit wrote:^ I caught you making up legal stuff where your aim was to misinforming the community. What a fail.

Making up legal stuff? Where did I do that? Feel free to quote me, friend!

3rd and 7th post on this page, mr innocent. So bad ToS is OK because it can be corrected by litigation, so everything is fine, after which it turns out you are making this up, just to defend massdrop.

As to #3, threat of litigation does prevent them from being shitty *if* they are rationally self-interested, much in the same way that negative customer feedback does.

As to #7, there is a big leap between the language in contracts and the practical implications. Hence ToS-dr.info.

Any other "examples" you want to bring up, friend?

AloisiusFauxly wrote:As to #3, threat of litigation does prevent them from being shitty *if* they are rationally self-interested, much in the same way that negative customer feedback does.

As to #7, there is a big leap between the language in contracts and the practical implications. Hence ToS-dr.info.

Any other "examples" you want to bring up, friend?

No. You gave false legal advise which was just a fantasy, and were caught.

+1 to the vote to take the arguments to another thread. Please guys. I'm about ready to unfollow the thread too. Or suggest that it be archived...

webwit wrote:No. You gave false legal advise which was just a fantasy, and were caught.

No, I gave no such advice, just my reading of the situation. If you chose to take it as advice then that's your problem, friend!

There are a lot of users in this thread that are only here because of the ergodox. You aren't contributing to the website, just using it as a way to talk about the project. The problem is, what people are saying is on topic. Massdrop is a part of ergodox, so talk about massdrop has to be had.

I also think telling webwit (admin) what to do on his website is quite silly, what will he do, ban himself.

I understand that a lot of you are used to GH's law where nothing goes unless it is going to make someone money, it's not the same here.

AloisiusFauxly wrote:No, I gave no such advice, just my reading of the situation. If you chose to take it as advice then that's your problem, friend!

Blah blah, friend. I doubt it is of much further use to continue this discussion, because your narcissist nature won't allow you admit it in the last word you always must have. Good luck with that, and with your battles for the defense of bad ToS everywhere.

Nope, just here, with you. I'm not a crusader for corporations, I just found your reasoning continually lacking and was compelled to respond. A pet peeve of mine.

Good luck in life, friend.

@AloisiusFauxly:

Even if massdrop had a legal or consumer-friendly ToS, there is still the fact that group buys should be done between the suppliers and us, without some commercial group buy organiser in-between.

If you want to deal with massdrop, you can do this without advertising them at this website.

Also, if you want to drive the discussion away from this thread, why not open an off-topc thread on your own?

7bit wrote:Even if massdrop had a legal or consumer-friendly ToS, there is still the fact that group buys should be done between the suppliers and us, without some commercial group buy organiser in-between.

And as I've said before, I too think that arrangement would result in a better experience for those buying the boards (I can only imagine the experience of the organizers...). But since nothing cohesive came together with a group buy here, MD was a good option to get the project going. If they deliver without any serious problems, then I think it will have been the right move. It might cost a little more to the end-user, but they actually went ahead and did it.

7bit wrote:there is still the fact that group buys should be done between the suppliers and us, without some commercial group buy organiser in-between.

Hmm, by that token shouldn't we avoid using payal and shipping companies, and instead drive and meet each other to exchange cash and goods? We rely on commercial services for shipping and payments, yet I don't see any claims that this is threatening the community.

Anyway, I think everyone is missing the BIG picture. The ErgoDox is not an enthusiast's keyboard, it's totally different than anything ever offered in a keyboard forum group buy. It's not a Phantom rig, or a Moogle kit, or any other gibberish-sounding thing that nobody outside keyboard-forum diehards can understand and appreciate.

It's a keyboard that ANY average computer user (that is forced to type on silly zig-zag typewriter layouts) should see and say "duh! This makes sense!" I've said it before, I wish the ErgoDox could be offered on the front page of Amazon or Google. This project is BIGGER than the Deskthority/GH community, and it would be extremely selfish of us to restrict it to our little world. People need to get away from the traditional zig-zag layout, and an honestly ergonomic keyboard needs to become the norm, not the exception. It should be advertised to the world so they will open their eyes to the shitty keyboard layout they have to put up with every day, and start demanding human-oriented, symmetrical keybards.
All the negativity is hurting that noble goal.

Then someone should be making them and selling them on eBay.

Get iOne behind it, selling them at £60 delivered. As they can with their non backlit MX keyboard.

Then wireless and extra switches can be had. Even wireless between the two halves?

A shiny case like they make for Corsair. Back lighting. Headphone and USB sockets.

The geekhack version of this thread is much more about the keyboard, brainstorming thereabout, and programming thereof, than this thread--which has become a toxic massdrop witchhunt. I say keep the massdrop paranoia here, and go there if you actually want to participate in a productive discussion.

Also, the massdrop guys ARE part of the community. They just don't promote massdrop on their accounts. Why do you think they even decided to do this, or other keyboard related buys?

^ Just kept the discussion going, attacks members and forum, defends corporation. Asshole.

Oh goody, here we go again!

webwit wrote:

I agree with sordna why is everyone at massdrops throat?

Because of all the issues you totally failed to address, to continue with an attack on people addressing these issues. Such poverty. You even attack our community as something you can't trust in favor of trusting a company for profit with terms which give you the finger. Jesus.

Webwit, just to clarify, I trust the community. I have spent several 100 Euros on groub buys since I joined both Deskthority and GH. What I was saying that not everyone trusts as easily. As a matter of fact, I was shocked how willing I was to send this much money to people I don't know. What I was saying is that for an outsider, it might not be that simple. And a company that promises you something and accepts your money, you have very clear legal means of either getting your money back or getting what you were promised and those people might feel safer. If I wire money to someone here, it is much less clear what if anything i can do if i get ripped of. In a lot of cases there are no terms which give me the finger, bc there are no terms period. In some cases, I have no bill, no proof of what I paid for other then posts here and I have no idea if any of this holds up legally. Again I trust the community (here even more then at GH) and it wasn't intended to attack the community, I am just saying that I can see how outsiders or new members might feel more comfortable with a bill and a company behind it, which is liable.

You keep making this a deskthority vs massdrop thing. The community vs the big evil corporation. It isn't. Most people that buy from massdrop would just as readily participate in a deskthority GB. It's not an either or. This GB happens to be done by a company and lots of people wanted and felt save buying from them. If they fuck it up, they will lose the trust of the community, just like if a GB on deskthority or GH goes bad and no one will deal with them anymore.

For me it is the opposite way!

They just trade, they don't produce. SP is a real factory, like Cherry, Unicomp, and even PCBwing. Much more trustworthy than a commerical entity which wants to step between us and the manufacturers.

It is really poor for those who thought out the ErgoDox, not being able to organise everything themselves. It worked/works with the Phantom twice and it will work with the GH60 and my Hyper. LOok at those many Korean group buys. All done by the community!

Just the ErgoDox can't be done as a community group buy. LOL!

Well said TDub. That was a factor for me at first, but I did decide to trust two members (7bit and bpiphany) with my money to get my ErgoDox prototype parts even though they could have said "go fuck yourself" and I would have had little recourse.

I think this is a good community and hopefully nothing I've said has been taken as a slight against it as a whole.