deskthority

purdobol wrote: ...On the other hand you Wodan did not provide any counter arguments as for why his opinion is invalid other than stating that Cherry has 35 years of history, and that not everything is black and white.

Maybe that's the misunderstanding here. My point was never about arguing what's the best switch.

What bothered me was how his signature disregard for Cherry MX switches has come to a point where Cherry switches are just a one-liner punch line despite his better knowledge and statements made in older videos.

Ready for a civilized and heavily opinionated discussion about switches but not based on ignorant shit talk.

It's basically like saying:
"The Netherlands are a third world football country who occasionally qualify for the world cup and never won it"

That's just an ignorant statement based on recent observations completely ignoring multiple golden eras of Dutch football where they were pretty awesome but just never quite made it to the top. Tale of Cherry and Dutch Football

Really? I think it's a pretty good outline tbh :p .

Seriously though, to anyone it should be blatantly obvious which bits of the review are opinions and which are facts. I'm not going to nuance everything into oblivion, it's just not my style .

Don't really care about football, but I'll concede that under no circumstances are the Germans allowed to win :p .

Chyros wrote: Don't really care about football, but I'll concede that under no circumstances are the Germans allowed to win :p .

Oh phew so you are Dutch after all

Lustique wrote: That's pretty much the problem I have with the whole ‘affair’: How is one switch objectively better than some other switch?

I think it can be assessed to a degree. For example if it's clicky switch, does it actually clicks at a point of actuation. Is it rated at 10 million presses or 100 million presses. How dust resistant the construction is. Is it easy to maintain/clean. Can it be opened without desoldering. Does the keys wobble. Is operation smooth or bumpy scratchy. And so on...

Lustique wrote: He didn't really, unless I overlooked that. What he did state is his opinions about the feeling of Cherry switches. That's also pretty much what my original question was aiming at, before I apparently started a minor shit show: Is there anything objectively/quantifiably/etc. wrong with Cherry switches?

It's in the video at 8:30 onward.

"The Netherlands are a third world football country who occasionally qualify for the world cup and never won it"

Orange outwits were dope though

Wodan wrote:

purdobol wrote: .
"The Netherlands are a third world football country who occasionally qualify for the world cup and never won it"

With the current state our national football team is in, might as well cheer for the mannschaft.

Starck wrote:

Wodan wrote:

purdobol wrote: .
"The Netherlands are a third world football country who occasionally qualify for the world cup and never won it"

With the current state our national football team is in, might as well cheer for the mannschaft.

Or you could join the Italians in cheering for Sweden who has nothing to do in the world cup but booted you from it regardless. (Or so I was told by a colleague.)

Obviously Iceland must win. Are they still in? XD

This is your most abstract thread now Tom! One for the books. But I think you may have missed the best stuff in the DT club meeting earlier today...

purdobol wrote: I think it can be assessed to a degree. For example if it's clicky switch, does it actually clicks at a point of actuation. Is it rated at 10 million presses or 100 million presses. How dust resistant the construction is. Is it easy to maintain/clean. Can it be opened without desoldering. Does the keys wobble. Is operation smooth or bumpy scratchy. And so on...
[…]

Well, I tried to at least resolve your first question for Alps and Cherry by googling a bit, but while I have found information for Cherry switches (the actuation point seems to be after the tactile bump/click), I did not find any concise information on Alps switches. Apparently they actuate before the bump/click, but I'm not sure. I'm also not sure what would be better, but if you just want clicking at the point of actuation, your best solution would probably be a solenoid. If anyone more knowledgeable wants to chime in, please feel welcome to do so.

As for key presses and dust resistance, AFAIK these points would be awarded to Cherry, bu I have no idea about maintenance. Concerning wobble: it seems that at least simplified Alps aren't better than Cherries, but I have no access to any Alps switches, so I also have nothing to add regarding smoothness. From what I've read, Alps seem to be better with this though, at least in comparison to modern MX.

To me (based on other people's experiences, more or less) it seems that Cherry sacrificed ‘better switch feel’ (whatever that means exactly) for robustness. I don't think that makes Cherry switches objectively worse than other switches, though.

purdobol wrote: […]
It's in the video at 8:30 onward. […]

Not really, no. At about 8:30 he says that Zealios are more tactile than Browns, but more tactility isn't objectively better than less tactility, just like a louder click isn't better than a less noisy one. Then he says something about the ‘weight’ of Cherry switches, which is an entirely subjective affair.

seebart wrote: This is your most abstract thread now Tom! One for the books. But I think you may have missed the best stuff in the DT club meeting earlier today...

I just read through it. Oh well.

I'll probably stop posting on DT altogether soon anyway, except for the reviews of course. Although I think very few people actually access them from here.

Does YT provide you with any statistics on that? I'd be curious where you get most of your traffic from (apart from YT directly), if that's something that YT tells its content providers, that is.

Chyros wrote:

seebart wrote: This is your most abstract thread now Tom! One for the books. But I think you may have missed the best stuff in the DT club meeting earlier today...

I just read through it. Oh well.

I'll probably stop posting on DT altogether soon anyway, except for the reviews of course. Although I think very few people actually access them from here.

I find that counterintuitive as the flak you receive is based on your videos and their content, not your other posts.

Khers wrote:

Chyros wrote:

seebart wrote: This is your most abstract thread now Tom! One for the books. But I think you may have missed the best stuff in the DT club meeting earlier today...

I just read through it. Oh well.

I'll probably stop posting on DT altogether soon anyway, except for the reviews of course. Although I think very few people actually access them from here.

I find that counterintuitive as the flak you receive is based on your videos and their content, not your other posts.

On the contrary, basically the sum total of negative comments I get is from an extremely small number of people on DT that just like to troll me or otherwise don't agree with me, nowhere and nobody else. If I hadn't known there are still members here that like my content, I would've left ages ago. In fact I planned to stop doing reviews entirely at the beginning of this year, but the feedback from YT has been so encouraging that I decided to keep doing it for this year as well .

Lustique wrote: Does YT provide you with any statistics on that? I'd be curious where you get most of your traffic from (apart from YT directly), if that's something that YT tells its content providers, that is.

Yes, YT Analytics provides very in-depth statistics on this. According to them, only 0.6% of my traffic comes from embedded videos, i.e. DT and GH combined.

Lustique wrote: As far as I know, and I'd be happy to be corrected on this, pretty much the only thing you can objectively assess with a keyboard switch is its longevity

Well, there are some features of a keyboard or a keyswitch that are objectively good or bad. One would be the longevity, as you say. But also, for example, often the quality of the stabilizers on larger keys is "measurable enough" to be out of discussion, or how much the keys wobble as you touch them. Or, often, the features of the switches have precise consequences in terms of ergonomy, which are not subjective at all.
I'm talking in a general sense, not referring to Cherries or to Chyros' revies in any way.

Chyros wrote: […]

Lustique wrote: Does YT provide you with any statistics on that? I'd be curious where you get most of your traffic from (apart from YT directly), if that's something that YT tells its content providers, that is.

Yes, YT Analytics provides very in-depth statistics on this. According to them, only 0.6% of my traffic comes from embedded videos, i.e. DT and GH combined.

To be honest, this was also the first time I ever watched any of your videos via DT (although I had seen it before). But I guess I wouldn't count anyway. I never watch longer YT videos using the webplayer, because everything's fed to ‘youtube-viewer’ and mpv. The DRC is something I can't do without.

By the way: If your main goal with your reviews is to entertain, then you definitely succeed in this, in my opinion. I do (still) watch them. I was just never sure how many grains of salt I have to take them with, if you get what I mean.

DustGod wrote:

Lustique wrote: As far as I know, and I'd be happy to be corrected on this, pretty much the only thing you can objectively assess with a keyboard switch is its longevity

Well, there are some features of a keyboard or a keyswitch that are objectively good or bad. One would be the longevity, as you say. But also, for example, often the quality of the stabilizers on larger keys is "measurable enough" to be out of discussion, or how much the keys wobble as you touch them. Or, often, the features of the switches have precise consequences in terms of ergonomy, which are not subjective at all.
I'm talking in a general sense, not referring to Cherries or to Chyros' revies in any way.

I'd be really interested in a real, objective comparison of switches in this way, but somehow I don't think that would end well…

Have you been hating and discriminating the wrong switches or layout again, Chyros? How dare you post opinion in your reviews. You have been a naughty boy.

webwit wrote: Have you been hating and discriminating the wrong switches or layout again, Chyros? How dare you post opinion in your reviews. You have been a naughty boy.

FREE SPEECH...! For all the ravished lambs and the baaaaad wolves...bring justice swift and fair .



No need to call in our new MODs webwit is just rambling...

webwit wrote: Have you been hating and discriminating the wrong switches or layout again, Chyros? How dare you post opinion in your reviews. You have been a naughty boy.

seebart wrote:

webwit wrote: Have you been hating and discriminating the wrong switches or layout again, Chyros? How dare you post opinion in your reviews. You have been a naughty boy.

FREE SPEECH...! For all the ravished lambs and the baaaaad wolves...bring justice swift and fair .



No need to call in our new MODs webwit is just rambling...

Doch!
HATE SPEECH! Anything classified as such are Strictly legally prohibited and can lead to imprisonments multiple times.
At least in the EU and Commonwealth countries.

Chyros and Wodan, let's make love <3 no war!

Menuhin wrote:

seebart wrote:

webwit wrote: Have you been hating and discriminating the wrong switches or layout again, Chyros? How dare you post opinion in your reviews. You have been a naughty boy.

FREE SPEECH...! For all the ravished lambs and the baaaaad wolves...bring justice swift and fair .



No need to call in our new MODs webwit is just rambling...

Doch!
HATE SPEECH! Anything classified as such are Strictly legally prohibited and can lead to imprisonments multiple times.
At least in the EU and Commonwealth countries.

Chyros and Wodan, let's make love <3 no war!

Menu, did you just tell me to have sex with Wodan? xD

Chyros wrote: Menu, did you just tell me to have sex with Wodan? xD

That's too much even for me stop it plz...