deskthority

Muirium wrote:Ducky (usually) puts ducks on the Windows keys and KBT does squirrels, so nothing new by Kul there. I'm unimpressed by their run of the mill TKL, to be honest.
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This is true, although I much prefer diamonds (or penguins) to ducks or squirrels.

Looking forward to the CM Novatouch, although I hope that their second wave will include a 55g Topre option.

Wheybag keys sound like a good option, far better than $78USD+ for two HHKB keys

Re: Novatouch, I think 2 spare blank or diamond keys is a small price to pay for keeping a large portion of customers happy. Keeps the board usable and free from annoyances right out of the box. The only way to go for a premium product.

I wonder how many people in this thread would be using Windows with the keyboard? Do Windows users even want that style of Microsoft "branding" as key legends? Seems very outdated to me.

It's a Microsoft certification thing. Something Topre still cares too much about, but many gamer keyboards do not. Sadly, though, most of the mech keyboard world really is still on Windows. Not by nearly long a way as in the past, but we're still an anachronistic lot!

I've no idea what extra keys will ship with the NovaTouch. I suspect you'll be more likely to get an alternate set for WASD than the mods, though; such is the fashion. But, come on, the whole point of the NovaTouch is a Topre board that you can put your high end caps on. Certainly, some will sell to people without doubleshots collections like so many of us have here, and for them this keyboard will be one hell of a group buy gateway drug!

Yeah, if I'm buying this keyboard I'm not going to use the stock keycaps, but that does not mean they have to suck! I mean they don't really suck right now, I think they're almost there, so if they can still perfected, I don't see why they shouldn't. I think one of the main points of this forum is that we want keyboards to be better, isn't it?

Trev wrote:I wonder how many people in this thread would be using Windows with the keyboard? Do Windows users even want that style of Microsoft "branding" as key legends? Seems very outdated to me.

I will (and I have the opposite experience; almost everybody I know use Windows, regardless of age).

I don't care that much what symbols are used for those keys, but I have to say that anything is better than Ducky's fugly duckling (I really hate it).

Muirium wrote:It's a Microsoft certification thing. Something Topre still cares too much about, but many gamer keyboards do not. Sadly, though, most of the mech keyboard world really is still on Windows. Not by nearly long a way as in the past, but we're still an anachronistic lot!

I would argue that most of the world is still on Windows, but, CM need to think very carefully about their target market with a specialist product such as the Novatouch - are their target users paying $$$ for a Topre board with Cherry compatibility really all Windows biased?

Or perhaps the opposite is true, they want to market a specialist product to the masses, and to do so they need a windoze button otherwise it gets marked down in reviews for missing a windows key?

Keyboards are full of ancient stuff that no one uses, when was the last time you used ALT-SYSREQ... Windows will just be another one of those historical curiosities...

I guess they have to pay in order to get Microsoft certification and allowance to use the Windows logo. Does this make keyboards without Windows key cheaper?

I think your general mech keyboard user probably doesn't give a shit about the Windows key. You either use it or you don't. It's actually a lot more useful in Windows 8. Seems to be a lot of Apple guys with a huge hate-on for it. Maybe they can discuss it at the Friend Bar:

002 wrote:... Seems to be a lot of Apple guys with a huge hate-on for it. Maybe they can discuss it at the Friend Bar

Not just Apple-guys, everyone else. In many demographics and niches Microsoft products are steadily on the way to becoming irrelevant.

On a forum I run/co-own for watch collectors, we're sitting at about 42% of users on a Windows-based OS. This is dropping every month too. IE usage is now under the 14% mark. So yes, in this case 58% of them would potentially have good reason to be annoyed at a "Windows" logo/advertising stuck on a new keyboard they've purchased.

Grond wrote:I guess they have to pay in order to get Microsoft certification and allowance to use the Windows logo. Does this make keyboards without Windows key cheaper?

they probably have the certification anyway. It would be cheaper if the company didn't have any MS certification at all.

Trev wrote: Not just Apple-guys, everyone else. In many demographics and niches Microsoft products are steadily on the way to becoming irrelevant.

On a forum I run/co-own for watch collectors, we're sitting at about 42% of users on a Windows-based OS. This is dropping every month too. IE usage is now under the 14% mark. So yes, in this case 58% of them would potentially have good reason to be annoyed at a "Windows" logo/advertising stuck on a new keyboard they've purchased.

What percentage of those users are using a desktop computer with a keyboard though? All I'm saying is that keyboards with Windows keys are popular because Windows is a popular environment. In an ideal world, every pair of scissors you bought would come with alternate handles for people who are left-handed, but in our harsh, cruel world, that's just not the case

I'm not asking for Command or Apple key, just use some agnostic symbol which is fine on every system. Or just go blank.

To put the Windows key in perspective, imagine it was some other logo instead. Like Samsung or even McDonalds. That's exactly what it's like when running anyone else's software. It's an oddball that has nothing to do with you or your keyboard. Yet, especially ten years ago, it was always there. And always the same.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Samsung or McDonalds key if the functionality was that pressing it on a McDonalds brand PC would deliver me a cheeseburger.

If I was using my McDonald's keyboard on a Burger King PC, I wouldn't be so pissed off if the key was still there. I'd probably just buy a Burger King keyboard so I could get a Whopper Jr delivered; that's assuming Burger King bothered to make a BK key. If not, just re-assign the key to Whopper Jr and deal with it.

But must it be so ridged? And succulent…

I was trying to think of random brands as ubiquitous and as stale as Microsoft of yore (back before Ballmer pissed half of it away) but couldn't quite hit the spot. The key is that it's always the same one.

(Looking up Monty Python Spam cafeteria URL… found it!)
I too would like a Realforce without any Spam in it.

Haha well in the case of a burger key, I would expect a convex appearance to match the crown of the bun. I am actually happy that I am not a particularly fussy person (I do use Windows after all) so I guess I just can't relate to the rage. The domed key is not beautiful but it's not something that annoys me at all.

the worst are the domed windows keys. yes I'm talking to you realforce!

It's not just Realforce, man! I am typing on a Libertouch with an absolutely HIDEOUS domed key. Leave Brittn-.. Topre alone!

even Filco has domed winkeys... (but I seem to recall that they include the flat alternative)

Just realised as I am sat here working at home today the old USB keyboard I am using at the moment as it plays nice with my KVM has a Windows 95 icon on the key!...

My 2010 model Epson keyboard has an old school Windows key too:
Obviously Microsoft don't police it very well...or if you come up with a keyboard at a certain point in time you can continue to use the Windows key that was appropriate for that time for as long as you keep making that model?

Don't get me wrong, I'll take all the mods I can get, but winkeyless boards are still prized by many for a reason!

Alas, you need an exta mod (Command, Option and Control) on the Mac, which means winkeyless is a bit awkward for me. Once again I hail the Kishsaver, which went symmetric three mods a side in 1983 before the Mac's existence!

So... can we all agree that the HHKB diamond would keep most people happy? I like that approach (without the CMD symbol).

Why legends if you can have blank caps?

Why not a winkey diamond and a blank in the box so you can choose? Must add at least $0.01 to the product costs...

Diamond would be fine for me.

cookie wrote:Why legends if you can have blank caps?

why blank when you can go neural connection?

Screw keyboards... just install bluetooth in my brain, once and for all!

Here's some closeups of the prototype NovaTouch caps that came with mine, back in spring. They aren't current! But just for curiosity's sake.
Note the backlit caps. They're for the lock indicators on a few keys. Most are the thicker, opaque type.
Ah, our good old meaty friend.
I like this one, though. My prototype is ISO-DE layout.

you've got a cat, haven't you?