deskthority

Well, I've tried quite a few times now to flash a new layout with no success (qmk, not via). Flip always throws an error as soon as I click the usb icon to open it (as per the guide Ellipse made). I've tried following a few different solutions that all say to force a driver update in the device manager, but nothing that I need shows up in there. I'm at a loss at this point.

Yep I usually put the HHKB printed 6 key set in the keyboard box. Unprinted sets have the HHKB and main key set all in one bag.

Synteks did you follow the manual on the project web site for what you have to do the first time you flash firmware? Check out the firmware section - "first timers." Did you use the pandrew tool to click Enter Bootloader before doing anything with Flip? I also made a firmware video as well, linked to in the manual.

I wanted to share two interesting YouTube comments on the Chyrosran22 video from someone who dealt with the original IBM 4700 systems back in the day:

"Thanks for another excellent keyboard review, Thomas.
Keys sound authentic, as the banking keyboards always seemed to me to have a deader sound than the IBM PC and 3270 model F keyboards. I used to program the 4704 banking systems many years ago, and there was never that high pitched spring noise you get in your reconditioned keyboard. Managed to get my hands on a "Pingmaster" a couple of years ago, but it obviously never matched the Model Fs I have missed for decades. Been checking in on this project for a long time and am so happy this has finally shipped."

"The 4700s were usually menu based programs designed for smaller screens but similar to what might be seen on 3278 terminals linked to a mainframe. The distributed processing of the 4700 meant that transactions could be partially processed locally and then sent in batches for mainframe processing. The hardware was very reliable, with the most common points of failure being the 4701 5 1/2" floppy drives due to dust and dirt (during a reboot after a power outage), or the display unit. Keyboards were reliable and robust and in my experience front line staff only ever used the 50 key model 100. Usage and key functions tended to be similar to bespoke POS keyboards. The 4704 model 100 keyboard layout was related to the previous generation banking terminal 3604 model 1 keyboard with an extra column of keys on the RHS block, which goes some way towards explaining the unusual format. If there ever were any keyboard issues, a robust upside down tap on the desk sorted things out. I only saw the model 300 and 400 keyboards a few times. The 4700s were programmed in assembler. All these banking systems were eventually replaced by PC's. I did not work in the US, but over half of all New Zealand bank branches used 4700s at one stage. Lloyds bank in the UK used these in the late 1980s. Tellers used these terminals to process almost all front of house banking transactions. I still remember my sorrow at having to bin my trusty old AT format model F keyboard and having to use a crappy plastic model M."

nickg wrote: 13 Jul 2021, 19:45 Same box as the keyboard. the 'normal' keyswill be in their own external bag

Thank you

I also wanted to share with permission another great customer image. This one shows the pearl keys and Industrial SSK Blue keys:

Ellipse wrote: 14 Jul 2021, 01:30 Synteks did you follow the manual on the project web site for what you have to do the first time you flash firmware? Check out the firmware section - "first timers." Did you use the pandrew tool to click Enter Bootloader before doing anything with Flip? I also made a firmware video as well, linked to in the manual.

Yeah, what I had to do was to "add legacy hardware" from the computer management window. Very odd, but after that I just followed the manuals / video and its working now!

Ellipse wrote: 14 Jul 2021, 01:56 I also wanted to share with permission another great customer image. This one shows the pearl keys and Industrial SSK Blue keys:

pearl and blue.jpg

man thats pretty... If i didnt need the arrow keys so much at home i'd totally have gotten the 62 key hhkb...

Has anyone spray painted their F62/F77 ?

Wanted to understand how lasting that would be and whether the textures will be retained.

nickg wrote: 14 Jul 2021, 22:21 man thats pretty... If i didnt need the arrow keys so much at home i'd totally have gotten the 62 key hhkb...

I’m not a fan of using fn + wasd or fn + ijkm for my arrows. Here’s how I configure arrows on my 60s with the HHKB style layout (split BS split RS 7u bottom row):

1) If you use the right side modifiers, you can Copy the same “tap” functionality: tap to access arrow layer for one press, hold to use RS, RAlt, etc. Hold fn + RS/RCtrletc to hold an arrow key. This is how the Anne Pro 2 handles arrows. IIRC LT (what this is called in QMK to get this working) is not doable in Via.

2) If you don’t use the right modifiers at all, you can configure them to arrow keys and leave the modifiers in a second layer.

3) A mix of both; Up arrow as tap, bottom arrow as down by default, etc.

The tough part is making your keyboard usable for other people who need to use it

chayu wrote: 15 Jul 2021, 15:21

nickg wrote: 14 Jul 2021, 22:21 man thats pretty... If i didnt need the arrow keys so much at home i'd totally have gotten the 62 key hhkb...

1) If you use the right side modifiers, you can Copy the same “tap” functionality: tap to access arrow layer for one press, hold to use RS, RAlt, etc. Hold fn + RS/RCtrletc to hold an arrow key. This is how the Anne Pro 2 handles arrows. IIRC LT (what this is called in QMK to get this working) is not doable in Via.

You can do something very similar in VIA using Mod-Tap.

Allow me to quote from a quick start guide I am writing with darkcruix:

For some users, the decision between an F62 and an F77 keyboard comes down to the need for a navigation cluster and in particular for arrow keys. To be sure, it is possible to have the keys of the navigation cluster on a different layer. That is how the F62 keyboard is programmed by default. However, this means that you need to press a function key to activate that layer and at the same time press the key corresponding to the arrow key. This makes typing further key combinations with that arrow key awkward.

Wouldn't it be cool if you could make the right Shift key function also as an Up Arrow key, the right Alt key also as a Left Arrow key, the right Windows key also as a Down Arrow key, and the right Control key also as a Right Arrow key? In other words, wouldn't it be cool if these modifier keys also functioned as arrow keys in an inverted-T layout?
Incidentally, this might even be of interest for users of the F77 keyboard, who have the right block set up to function as a complete num pad and then have to press a function key to access the navigation cluster on a different layer. Having at the same time both the arrow keys /and/ a num pad active could come handy. And finally, on both the F62 and F77 keyboard, this modification makes it easier to reach the arrow keys from the home row.

Without further ado, how is it done? Again [...] by using Mod-Tap. First, click on the right Shift key in the keyboard layout, then on the Any key. No, not the Any key from the old "PRESS ANY KEY TO CONTINUE" joke. VIA does have an actual Any key. You can find it under the SPECIAL menu at the very end of the list of keycodes:
Enter the following command on the line in the pop-up window:
After you have entered the command, click the Confirm button. Then repeat the same process for the remaining three keys:

Right Alt (leftmost right modifier):
Right GUI (middle right modifier):
Right Control (rightmost right modifier):
The four keys now function as arrow keys when you tap them and as regular modifiers when you hold them.

An additional modification would be to use the middle right modifier to switch to another layer temporarily, i.e. as long as it is held. I like to do that because the right GUI key is in a convenient location but not often used by me otherwise.

Warning: Before you set up a key for layer switching, make sure that key is transparent on the layer it switches to or else you will be stuck in that layer. You do that in the keyboard representation on VIA by first choosing the layer the key will switch to, and then clicking on the key that will switch to that layer. Then click on the Any key and type KC_TRNS.

Now back to how you make the middle right modifier act both as Down key and as layer switching key. Layer switching cannot use the Mod-Tap prefix, but must use a layer switching prefix. You go back to the base layer (0) and first click the middle right modifier and then click the Any key. In the pop-up window you enter the following keycode:
This particular layer switching keycode has the prefix LT. For the keycode in the bracket it means the following: the number before the comma turns on the corresponding layer (here 1 or the first layer) as long as it is pressed and held; the key code following the comma sends that keycode when tapped (here KC_DOWN or down arrow).

HTH

Edit: Corrected a typo in the keycodes (KC_RIGHT -> KC_RGHT). Thanks for pointing it out, xyzzy!

Didn't know you could do any keycode in Via- thanks for that!

troglotype wrote: 15 Jul 2021, 17:43
INVERTED_T.jpg

This is basically what I do...! It makes 60s feel very natural to use. The real challenge though is adapting back to a full backspace after you've gotten used to 1.5u R2 backspace......

Are there any plans to close orders for these keyboards? I don't have the finances to get one right now but would hate if a couple months from now they are no longer available for purchase.

Rezene wrote: 16 Jul 2021, 22:50 Are there any plans to close orders for these keyboards? I don't have the finances to get one right now but would hate if a couple months from now they are no longer available for purchase.

The "have orders in by" note on the project website has been updating every month for years. Quite a few times, people hurried to get their orders in by one of these deadlines and, while doing so, made sub-optimal financial decisions. This has led to several heated discussions in this thread. Scroll up a few pages to see the latest of these.

I suggest you wait until your finances allow you to purchase a keyboard. Judging by the pace of the project, the keyboards will still be available in a couple of months. If you don't want to take this small risk, get in touch with Ellipse and ask him about a payment plan.

Whatever you do, don't go into debt to purchase a keyboard (or anything else for that matter).

Thanks to Ellipse, the family was reunited:

troglotype wrote: 15 Jul 2021, 17:43 You can do something very similar in VIA using Mod-Tap.

Allow me to quote from a quick start guide I am writing with darkcruix:

For some users, the decision between an F62 and an F77 keyboard comes down to the need for a navigation cluster and in particular for arrow keys. To be sure, it is possible to have the keys of the navigation cluster on a different layer. That is how the F62 keyboard is programmed by default. However, this means that you need to press a function key to activate that layer and at the same time press the key corresponding to the arrow key. This makes typing further key combinations with that arrow key awkward.

Wouldn't it be cool if you could make the right Shift key function also as an Up Arrow key, the right Alt key also as a Left Arrow key, the right Windows key also as a Down Arrow key, and the right Control key also as a Right Arrow key? In other words, wouldn't it be cool if these modifier keys also functioned as arrow keys in an inverted-T layout?

Thanks a lot! I was used to this configuration on my F62 with QMK, but haven't been able to reproduce it since switching to Via! That's really cool!

troglotype wrote: 15 Jul 2021, 17:43 Right Control (rightmost right modifier):

Code: Select all

MT(MOD_LCTL|MOD_RCTL,KC_RIGHT)

Careful, there's a typo: the "keycode right" command is "KC_RGHT", so the full command for the bottom right key is:
(it took me quite a bit to understand why it wasn't accepted)

Thanks again!

Thanks chayu and troglotype for your detailed recommendations and explanations. The tap functionality seems to be extra useful for any type of compact layout keyboard.

I am hoping that more of this kind of great information can be shared here. Everyone please do post any interesting firmware type stuff here!

Rezene there is definitely more time as we are still in the early bird round for the time being.

Great photo Lagomorph! Did you order the 5251 beamspring without a case or is that just for the photo?

Ellipse wrote: 17 Jul 2021, 18:08 Great photo Lagomorph! Did you order the 5251 beamspring without a case or is that just for the photo?

I have the case but I prefer the form-factor of the caseless board.

I bought it in wretched shape: many keys completely rusted and immobile. Required a complete disassembly and cleaning of each switch, de-rusting the case, priming, painting.. the whole works. I'm not a very handy person, so the restoration is something I'm proud of (maybe another reason to keep it "naked" ). One of these days (and in another thread) maybe I'll post some pics.

Hi everyone,

I would like to ask for your help.
I've altered an ISO layout file to compile for F77 in Turkish.

QMK beta configuration page reacts differently by mapping the same key. For example; if I drag and drop the corresponding key from the visual key code reference map to the layer map, I see it's taking KC_MINS, but if I click the button on the layer map and then press the corresponding key on my keyboard, it's taking KC_GRV at this time. It's a little bit confusing. Then, I decided to check the keymap_turkish_q.h header file to confirm the correct keycodes. According to the aliases and the real key codes in that header file, I've altered the ISO layout file in Turkish.

Here is the reference table of the key codes for ISO (Turkish) layout :

// Row 1
#define TR_DQUO KC_GRV // "
#define TR_1 KC_1 // 1
#define TR_2 KC_2 // 2
#define TR_3 KC_3 // 3
#define TR_4 KC_4 // 4
#define TR_5 KC_5 // 5
#define TR_6 KC_6 // 6
#define TR_7 KC_7 // 7
#define TR_8 KC_8 // 8
#define TR_9 KC_9 // 9
#define TR_0 KC_0 // 0
#define TR_ASTR KC_MINS // *
#define TR_MINS KC_EQL // -
// Row 2
#define TR_Q KC_Q // Q
#define TR_W KC_W // W
#define TR_E KC_E // E
#define TR_R KC_R // R
#define TR_T KC_T // T
#define TR_Y KC_Y // Y
#define TR_U KC_U // U
#define TR_I KC_I // I
#define TR_O KC_O // O
#define TR_P KC_P // P
#define TR_GBRV KC_LBRC // Ğ
#define TR_UDIA KC_RBRC // Ü
// Row 3
#define TR_A KC_A // A
#define TR_S KC_S // S
#define TR_D KC_D // D
#define TR_F KC_F // F
#define TR_G KC_G // G
#define TR_H KC_H // H
#define TR_J KC_J // J
#define TR_K KC_K // K
#define TR_L KC_L // L
#define TR_SCED KC_SCLN // Ş
#define TR_IDOT KC_QUOT // İ
#define TR_COMM KC_NUHS // ,
// Row 4
#define TR_LABK KC_NUBS // <
#define TR_Z KC_Z // Z
#define TR_X KC_X // X
#define TR_C KC_C // C
#define TR_V KC_V // V
#define TR_B KC_B // B
#define TR_N KC_N // N
#define TR_M KC_M // M
#define TR_ODIA KC_COMM // Ö
#define TR_CCED KC_DOT // Ç
#define TR_DOT KC_SLSH // .


So, I tried to make a config with 3 hardware layers:

Layer0:



Layer1:



Layer2:




And here is the code for my .json key mapping file;

{
"keyboard":"xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/f77/wcass",
"keymap":"f77_iso_turkish_navikeysrightblock_v01",
"layout":"LAYOUT_iso_regular_shift_regular_backspace",
"layers":
[
[
"KC_ESC","KC_1","KC_2","KC_3","KC_4","KC_5","KC_6","KC_7","KC_8","KC_9","KC_0","KC_MINS","KC_EQL","KC_BSPC","KC_INS","KC_HOME","KC_PGUP",
"KC_TAB","KC_Q","KC_W","KC_E","KC_R","KC_T","KC_Y","KC_U","KC_I","KC_O","KC_P","KC_LBRC","KC_RBRC","KC_ENT","KC_DEL","KC_END","KC_PGDN",
"KC_CAPS","KC_A","KC_S","KC_D","KC_F","KC_G","KC_H","KC_J","KC_K","KC_L","KC_SCLN","KC_QUOT","KC_NUHS","KC_PSCR","KC_SLCK","KC_PAUS",
"KC_LSFT","KC_NUBS","KC_Z","KC_X","KC_C","KC_V","KC_B","KC_N","KC_M","KC_SLSH","KC_BSLS","KC_DOT","KC_RSFT","MO(1)","KC_UP","OSM(MOD_LCTL|MOD_LSFT)",
"KC_LCTL","KC_LGUI","KC_LALT","KC_SPC","KC_RALT","KC_APP","KC_RCTL","KC_LEFT","KC_DOWN","KC_RGHT"
],

[
"KC_GRV","KC_F1","KC_F2","KC_F3","KC_F4","KC_F5","KC_F6","KC_F7","KC_F8","KC_F9","KC_F10","KC_F11","KC_F12","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO",
"KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_TAB","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO",
"KC_TRNS","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO",
"KC_TRNS","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO",
"KC_TRNS","KC_NO","KC_TRNS","MO(2)","KC_TRNS","KC_NO","KC_ENT","KC_NO","KC_NO","KC_NO"
],

[
"KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","ANY(HPT_DWLD)","ANY(HPT_DWLI)","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS",
"KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","EEP_RST","RESET","ANY(HPT_TOG)","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS",
"KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","DEBUG","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS",
"KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS",
"KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS","KC_TRNS"
]
],
"author":"",
"notes":""
}

What I would like to ask from you experts is that if it works properly or not, when I compile and flash it?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Spot sold.

I received my F62 two days ago and it's gorgeous! I purchased an industrial grey one, but ordered a true red case to go with it, which I installed upon receiving the keyboard. I love the finish! It somehow feels rougher and more pleasing to the touch than the black F77 case. Not sure if anything changed.

Some things to note:
- The keys feel slightly gritty - I am hoping they will wear in and get smoother with use. I think this is to do with the way the spring interacts with the inside of the keycap, rather than the stems in the barrels. These caps seem to have less play than than usual XT keycaps. I do love the texture, it's nice and coarse.

- Spacebar feels a bit rough - I think the wire is catching on something inside the tabs. I need to take a closer look. At least it sounds a lot better than the F77 spacebar!

- A few keys feel softer for some reason. I can't yet tell if this is spring damage, but I'll be opening it up to have a look when I have the time. I do have spare springs so this is not a concern.

- Just like my first New Model F I received over a year ago, the backplate wasn't firmly locked into the tabs of the barrel frame when I checked during the case swap. I used my bar clamp to squeeze the backplate back into place, which caused it to "bow" out and some of the barrels became loose. After putting it back in its case and tightening the screws, all the barrels are firm again. I will open it up again when I have the time and ensure the assembly is tight even when it is out of the case.

- I am using Via with this and it's serving me well so far.

Ellipse wrote: 21 Jun 2021, 20:18 Also can anyone help with setting the correct/official JIS layout? Here's what someone sent me as a draft:

jis.png

Ellipse wrote: 25 Jun 2021, 18:59 Those who know about JIS, please review the proposed JIS layout attached, as updated by a forum member here. Is this representative of the JIS layout on an IBM keyboard (obviously with fewer keys for the F77 or F62)?

Something similar to this, with the exception of the blank key that should have been the printed 1.25U key supplied by Unicomp.



qmk test.PNG

Hi Joe,


At the 1st row:

KC_JYEN is the alias of KC_INT3. I think they are the same but I converted it to KC_INT3, Japanese alias for the KC_INT3 is JP_YEN which is the correct one.



At the 2nd row:

I saw KC_LANG2 which has an alias as KC_HANJ has been used. I don't understand that. This key must be Eisū (英数)
(Please see: alphanumeric (eisū 英数), combined with non-language specific key ⇪ Caps Lock - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_input_keys

and

also please see https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blo ... eymap_jp.h)

I think that the standard KC_CAPS key code should be used, so I converted it to KC_CAPS. Because the Japanese alias of the KC_CAPS keycode is JP_EISU (Eisū (英数)) which is the correct one. So I converted it to KC_CAPS



At the 4th row:

The short left shift key (like in ISO layout) has been registered with a backslash key at the right of it in Microsoft's driver file (kbdjpn.dll, version 10.0.22000.1 (WinBuild.160101.0800))
On the other hand, in the other Microsoft's other driver file (kbdibm02.dll, version 10.0.22000.1 (WinBuild.160101.0800)) which is written for Japanese Keyboard Layout for IBM 5576-002/003, the larger left shift (like in ANSI) has been used without backslash key.
Also, when I check the header file (keymap_jp.h) of the qmk firmware, I saw the same; the larger left shift.
Further, most of the Japanese/JIS keyboards are sold without a backslash key with the larger shift (like in ANSI). So, I left the short left shift key without adding a backslash key right of it to use it with the larger shift keycap with the stabilizer.


Another thing is that I saw that the KC_RO keycode has been used at the left of the right shift. KC_RO is the alias of KC_INT1 keycode for the backslash.
I think it doesn't matter which one is used but the real one is KC_INT1. KC_RO is an alias, not the real keycode and the Japanese alias is JP_BSLS of the KC_INT1, so I converted it to the KC_INT1.



At the 5th row;

I saw the KC_MHEN at the left of the spacebar which is the alias of KC_INT5 that has been used in the file. The Japanese alias of the KC_INT5 keycode is, JP_MHEN (Muhenkan (無変換)) which is the correct one. I converted it to the standard one; KC_INT5.

Similarly, KC_HENK at the right of the spacebar which is the alias of KC_INT4 has been used in the file. The Japanese alias of the KC_INT4 keycode is, JP_HENK (Henkan (変換)) which is the correct one. I converted it to the standard one; KC_INT4.

And the other one, KC_KANA at the right of the Henkan (KC_HENK) key which is the alias of KC_INT2 has been used in the file. The Japanese alias of the KC_INT2 keycode is, JP_KANA (Katakana ↔ Hiragana ↔ Rōmaji (カタカナ ↔ ひらがな ↔ ローマ字)
) which is the correct one. I converted it to the standard one; KC_INT2 to register the Katakana ↔ Hiragana ↔ Rōmaji (カタカナ ↔ ひらがな ↔ ローマ字) correctly.


I've altered the only 1st layer which is important for the JIS layout, so other hardware layers can be altered easily I think.


As a summary;

1. I corrected the CapsLock - Eisū (英数) key.

2. I converted all aliases to the standard QMK firmware versions (KC_INTx) for JIS keyboard.

3. I added the "0" (zero) keypad key at the right of the up arrow key which was missing.


I think the aliases would be working the same, but I think that the original ones are better, so I'm not sure about the bug level of the beta QMK firmware.

The .json file is attached.

Ellipse wrote: 14 Jul 2021, 01:56 I also wanted to share with permission another great customer image. This one shows the pearl keys and Industrial SSK Blue keys:

This looks fantastic. These keyboards are a bit difficult to properly capture the textures in photos. So far, this is one of my favorite photos, as it really captures the feel of seeing it in person.

I'm typing this on my F77 that arrived several months ago, still with my 15 years used Model M keys. It feels just as good as the day it arrived, and the worn keys really give it that 'old friend' feel. I'm salivating at how great the new keys will be, and I'm happy to wait for them. I was one of the wierdos who ordered custom keys with homing bumps, it's going to be a perfectly customized experience.

I'm not sure if it helps the impatient, but Ellipse was able to send my second F77 more quickly than expected when I switched my order from the nav cluster to the numpad, like my first F77. I'm guessing this meant he didn't need to flash a different firmware, so the board was able to ship with less work for him. That's just me speculating, I could be totally wrong.

No matter what, I'm elated to be typing on this incredible machine, and I'm extremely grateful for him following through with this project to the absolute best of his abilities. It's an act of passion that obviously consumed much more of his effort than originally intended. I'm going to be proud of using these keyboards for years, hopefully decades.

And you know what? If I was rich as heck, I'd buy his $4k spacesaver just to show him how much I love these model F's. I'd probably never open it, and never get my money back on it, but I wouldn't care because I was throwing rich guy money at what I like. Somebody just paid around 1.5 million for a mint, unopened copy of Super Mario 64. That's the collection business; It's based on passion, revolves around disposable income, makes no logical sense, and everybody in the business is hoping for a rich guy to walk in and make it your lucky day.

Lagomorph wrote: 17 Jul 2021, 17:27 Thanks to Ellipse, the family was reunited:

I’d love to find compatible keycaps like the ones in the kb at the top. I have an old Selectric clone with keys that are almost like that and they are wonderful.

xyzzy wrote: 17 Jul 2021, 17:46
Careful, there's a typo: the "keycode right" command is "KC_RGHT", so the full command for the bottom right key is:

Code: Select all

MT(MOD_LCTL|MOD_RCTL,KC_RGHT)

(it took me quite a bit to understand why it wasn't accepted)

Thanks again!

Thank you for pointing out my typo! I have edited my initial post and hope I didn't lead astray others.

Several of the springs in my F62 (the ones that felt softer) and some of the springs included in the bag of 77 that I ordered are slightly damaged. Is this happening in transit or is this happening during production?

The pearl spacebar has some kind of flashing defect on the inside of the stem, which is what was causing the roughness. I can't really use it so that pearl set is as good as useless for now. I'm using the black set I ordered, which doesn't appear to have the defects (and doesn't feel as bad as the black set I ordered with my F77 two years ago)

The assembly isn't "happy" and the plates are fighting apart. This is despite opening it, ensuring all tabs were straight and even adding a bit of curvature to the barrel frame (which was unevenly curved without me touching it). Model F plates should conform to their curvature, even when thick replacement foam mats force them apart. With the case screws tightened normally (not overtightened), this is somewhat remedied, although it shouldn't be the case. What's going on here?

I did notice the new barrels are much shinier and more slippery in texture than the older ones from my F77, as well as original Models F.

Wazrach wrote: 19 Jul 2021, 22:36 Several of the springs … are slightly damaged.

Can you post a pic of a damaged spring?

Pete wrote: 19 Jul 2021, 05:42 I’d love to find compatible keycaps like the ones in the kb at the top. I have an old Selectric clone with keys that are almost like that and they are wonderful.

Not sure about Selectric clones, but it seems like the original Selectrics used the same pin/slot connector as the beamspring boards:

viewtopic.php?t=20345

The caps' thickness and shape really are nice to type on.

Pete wrote: 20 Jul 2021, 01:06

Wazrach wrote: 19 Jul 2021, 22:36 Several of the springs … are slightly damaged.

Can you post a pic of a damaged spring?

I have updated my post. I'm not imagining it, am I? This can't be normal. I've looked at many good condition Model Fs and the springs aren't like this.

Wazrach wrote: 20 Jul 2021, 10:16
I have updated my post. I'm not imagining it, am I? This can't be normal. I've looked at many good condition Model Fs and the springs aren't like this.

You have the same colour case as me

I’m attaching pics of my springs. Do they look a bit straighter maybe?

Pete wrote: 20 Jul 2021, 12:04

Wazrach wrote: 20 Jul 2021, 10:16
I have updated my post. I'm not imagining it, am I? This can't be normal. I've looked at many good condition Model Fs and the springs aren't like this.

You have the same colour case as me

I’m attaching pics of my springs. Do they look a bit straighter maybe?

C80A4BD1-0AD5-4AD6-9A1A-73DE83AA8769.jpeg

209F8AB9-5C24-42F9-A883-0D2B418143E1.jpeg

FFBD425E-A918-410C-ACB5-A87D79279BB3.jpeg

I do love the case, it's so gorgeous. Yeah, your springs look straighter than mine. I was still able to fill my F62 with mostly straight springs, but it's still worrying.

I tweaked the tabs some more and quietened the spacebar a little bit. The keyboard is now closer to perfection. I think the keys will become smoother with a bit more use. My theory for why they're rougher is because there is less play compared to original Model F keycaps.

My Model F arrived without the space bar. It was a return I think but according to the description should have included a full set of caps.

“I am helping to sell a customer's keyboard: the Ultra Compact Case Model F Keyboard F62 Kishsaver, configured with HHKB Style Split Right Shift and standard 2U Backspace and a low serial.

Included will be a set of brand new Model F keys with the 6 key HHKB add on set (not pictured). You will install the keys (keys will not be installed). No new Model F box or packaging will be included - will be packed with generic packaging.”

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Compact- ... 632-2357-0

Also there appears to be a height differential from the right side of the keyboard to the left. I can see more of the switch post from the top of the keyboard on the far left than the far right. I’ll try opening it later to see if some screws need to be tightened but I wanted to post here first to make sure I’m not shooting first and asking questions later.

EDIT: Joe sent out a replacement space bar! Will update this post.

EDIT2: First aid kit arrived without the bumpers but the spacebar showed with it and it works great. Now I just need to fix the Escape key and it'll be perfect.