deskthority

Matias switches, which are based off of Simplified Alps, are different from Alps SKCM/SKCL, as far the housing and the switchplate are concerned at least. I think you would be better off just swapping the switches in their entirety.

I still may not actually get around to doing it for a month, but I got a great Northgate 101 on ebay with like new complicated white Alps, and I am going to upgrade them. I have had soldering problems with Northgates several times in the past, so now, with Mr Bishop's great tool, I want to leave the switch bodies intact and in place and do whatever I am going to do from the top.

What I want to achieve is a light action and quiet but distinctly tactile switch. I have enough good clean orange to do the whole thing, plus tons of others (black, white, cream (old Wang creams, not the dampened Apple type), and a few blues).

My thought now is to use orange, either straight-up or click-modded, and I will take them apart, clean them thoroughly, and lightly lube them before I install them into the new switch bodies. As I understand it, the orange springs are among the lightest available, already, and lubing them should make them seem even lighter.

So I am left with whether to mod the leaves. Tactility is supremely important to me, and noise is more of a minus than a plus, but I will gladly lived with less-than-ideal sound to optimize the feel.

Does this sound like a plan, and/or do you have other suggestions? I have never seriously modded Alps switches before.

scottc wrote: They're pin-compatible so you can desolder the Matias switches and replace them with the orange Alps, but the insides aren't compatible from what I understand. You'd have to do a full switch swap, not just replace the switch tops etc. like you can with plate-mount MX.

Thanks for the reply! I thought as much, I will see how it types after a keycap swap as the stock ones are pretty horrendous!

emdude wrote: Matias switches, which are based off of Simplified Alps, are different from Alps SKCM/SKCL, as far the housing and the switchplate are concerned at least. I think you would be better off just swapping the switches in their entirety.

That makes a lot of sense, I think I will go to the hassle of swapping them out.

fohat wrote: What I want to achieve is a light action and quiet but distinctly tactile switch. I have enough good clean orange to do the whole thing, plus tons of others (black, white, cream (old Wang creams, not the dampened Apple type), and a few blues).

My thought now is to use orange, either straight-up or click-modded, and I will take them apart, clean them thoroughly, and lightly lube them before I install them into the new switch bodies. As I understand it, the orange springs are among the lightest available, already, and lubing them should make them seem even lighter.

Does this sound like a plan, and/or do you have other suggestions? I have never seriously modded Alps switches before.

I don't have a suggestion, but I would just like the add that I am interested in your eventual experience as I would like something similar from my Matias keyboard.
Unfortunately though I think my orange Alps are quite worn as they bind quite a bit from off centre key presses. Would lubing and cleaning remove that, or would I be better off finding another donor board?

Stabilized wrote:
Unfortunately though I think my orange Alps are quite worn as they bind quite a bit from off centre key presses. Would lubing and cleaning remove that, or would I be better off finding another donor board?

Nothing will replace material that has eroded away. Late-1980s-early-1990s Apple keyboards are not so hard to find or expensive.

That's a shame, thanks for the info! I will have to keep an eye out for a less used one.
Unfortunately, they aren't as common here in the UK as they are in the US.

You can always try, as you got nothing to loose but a bit of time. I had SKCMs white in a really bad condition, binding and all, and after cleaning them (blowing air with an air compressor, cleaning switch housing with isopropanol) and lubing they are quite nice now. I can't compare them to stock white, though. Also, I think that even without lubing they would improve a great deal. YMMV of course.

And as a tip, you don't need to clean them all. First I cleaned some 30 switches, put them in alpha slots in the plate, and put their keycaps on. Just trying them that way I knew they were much better than before.

That's also really good to know, thanks!
I will give it a shot as I don't plan to use the AEK for anything else, especially as the keycaps are already going on my Matias.

fohat wrote: I still may not actually get around to doing it for a month, but I got a great Northgate 101 on ebay with like new complicated white Alps, and I am going to upgrade them. I have had soldering problems with Northgates several times in the past, so now, with Mr Bishop's great tool, I want to leave the switch bodies intact and in place and do whatever I am going to do from the top.

What I want to achieve is a light action and quiet but distinctly tactile switch. I have enough good clean orange to do the whole thing, plus tons of others (black, white, cream (old Wang creams, not the dampened Apple type), and a few blues).

My thought now is to use orange, either straight-up or click-modded, and I will take them apart, clean them thoroughly, and lightly lube them before I install them into the new switch bodies. As I understand it, the orange springs are among the lightest available, already, and lubing them should make them seem even lighter.

So I am left with whether to mod the leaves. Tactility is supremely important to me, and noise is more of a minus than a plus, but I will gladly lived with less-than-ideal sound to optimize the feel.

Does this sound like a plan, and/or do you have other suggestions? I have never seriously modded Alps switches before.

For the lightest springs, you could go for Alps SKCL Green, though I think Matias Linears are even lighter, but I'm not sure as I'm not very familiar with Matias.

If you're wanting to click mod orange leaves for feel alone, then perhaps you could just generously lube the leaves, as that will more than likely silence them.

When I was cleaning my Acer KB101A during the restoration process, I used isopropyl alcohol on the plate to remove the grit. Apparently some of it seeped into the switches and muted them until it evaporated. I almost freaked out until I realized it was temporary.

Good luck on modding that Northgate.

Oh, and the only issue with switch top swapping as opposed to desoldering that I see is that the shorter plates affect feel in a very marginal way. When swapping SKCM Blue internals into a Salmon housing, it felt a wee bit stiffer.

It could just be me though, so take that with a grain of salt. It doesn't SEEM like it'd make such a difference, but it might!

The fact tiny tabs on the top housing make a huge difference in feel is a good example of something seemingly tiny affecting switch feel.

E3E wrote:
Oh, and the only issue with switch top swapping as opposed to desoldering that I see is that the shorter plates affect feel in a very marginal way. When swapping SKCM Blue internals into a Salmon housing, it felt a wee bit stiffer.

The fact tiny tabs on the top housing make a huge difference in feel is a good example of something seemingly tiny affecting switch feel.

I am probably looking at putting orange internals into white bodies of approximately the same vintage.
I have not looked but I am hoping that the corresponding parts are the same size.

Today truly proved how bad vast my keyboard collection is. I opened a drawer to get my old car radio, and lone behold was greeted by an orange aek and a leading edge 2214 with early whites that feel like my blues.

Explains the set of aek keycaps I have lying around, but sadly I don't know where the crazy thick double shot keycaps I have for the 2214 are. Gotta love finding unfinished projects laying around

chiptea wrote:

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Does anyone have a 6311? I just got one (Data General), but I really don't like the switches (really rough/sharp typing on the keys not on the home row). I just took it apart to have a better look at the switches and plate, to try to use it on a Alps64. The slots are too narrow to accept alps switches (about 1~2 mm too thin) and I don't trust myself to file each slot perfectly enough. The mods have a really strange stabilizer setup, with the wires clicked into the key itself, as opposed to the plate. The plate, additionally, has fully integrated slots (not removable). This makes it pretty hard to use the mods on any other board, and which would require me to get the mods from another board (which I'd like to avoid. Does anyone have a work-around? And, if not, are they other caps that have the same profile? I know that the Apple caps aren't the same profile (I tried to put it on the M0116).

edit: Or, I suppose, any help on making these Acer switches less rough?

That 6311 uses Acer switches, which seem to be completely different from actual Alps switches other than the use of the Alps-mount and folded tactile leaves.

I am looking at the wiki page now, and I did not know that they were mounted exposed over a membrane instead of being completely discrete switches with switchplates!

Using Acer switches with an Alps64 is definitely a no-go here.

You need to add a link to your thread chiptea so everyone can see that beautiful Focus FK-2001 of yours.

seebart wrote: You need to add a link to your thread chiptea so everyone can see that beautiful Focus FK-2001 of yours.

Ooh, good thinking.

photos-f62/new-old-stock-focus-fk-2001- ... ml#p321267

emdude wrote: That 6311 uses Acer switches, which seem to be completely different from actual Alps switches other than the use of the Alps-mount and folded tactile leaves.

I am looking at the wiki page now, and I did not know that they were mounted exposed over a membrane instead of being completely discrete switches with switchplates!

Using Acer switches with an Alps64 is definitely a no-go here.

I have no intention of using the acer switches on a Alps64- the exact opposite. I want to use clicky-modded creams, but I want to use the caps from the 6311. But, my issue is that the modifiers use an upside-down stabilizer system.

The switches are sorta cool- they use an actual tactile leaf, which feels good individually, but there is friction and some level of sharpness that I can't really describe well that just kills the experience when typing. I would say that the wiki should have a much more damning review than "negative". The membrane feel is just on bottoming out, where it feels almost cushioned. The return (up-click) is even worse than the downstroke.

Ah, I apologize for the misunderstanding. Perhaps Chyros or Alec (Ohaimark) can help since I believe they own Acer 6310-series boards.

Are the wires and stab positions identical to that of stabilized keys from normal Alps boards?

There isn't a good way to use the stabilized caps on a regular Alps board. No mods have been documented either.

I don't think it's worth the effort, personally. I saved the alpha keys and used different stabilized Alps caps to fill out the remainder.

ohaimark wrote: There isn't a good way to use the stabilized caps on a regular Alps board. No mods have been documented either.

I don't think it's worth the effort, personally. I saved the alpha keys and used different stabilized Alps caps to fill out the remainder.

Thanks- I was afraid of that. A mod wouldn't be too difficult though- basically grafting the slots onto the normal clips with some plastic glue/cement. But not worth it, I'll agree.

Which caps did you use to replace the mods, if you don't mind me asking? I want to stick with winkeyless, but don't really know of any easily obtainable WKL sets, outside Matias. I'd rather not have to buy a whole keyboard for some modifiers.

I have a bunch of spare Alps keycaps from other keyboards that were too roached to keep.

Sorry I couldn't help you source new caps.

I have a ton of Alps keysets now too. Indeed Acer feels good individually (amazing without the membrane in fact) but the membrane makes them one of the worst.

if you look inside the switch, the leaf looks a lot like the brown's leaf. No wonder the click is so well defined. The membrane at the end is just very unfortunate. The M gets away with it because its hammer contacts so cleanly, but the Acer switch has a gooey follow through.
My issue is with the roughness of the switches- they feel like the sliders are getting stuck on the switch itself. I assume that's a lube problem, though.

So, time for a 2nd opinion. I have asked around on gh about the correct lube to use on blue alps (they were filthy, and In washing them, all the original lube came off. ) I have heard good things about Dupont Teflon Silicone lubricant, but its somewhat expensive, so I want to make sure its the right tool for the job.

mike52787 wrote: So, time for a 2nd opinion. I have asked around on gh about the correct lube to use on blue alps (they were filthy, and In washing them, all the original lube came off. ) I have heard good things about Dupont Teflon Silicone lubricant, but its somewhat expensive, so I want to make sure its the right tool for the job.

No-one has found a lube that really "works" on Alps switches yet. I don't think anyone can give you a guarantee here :/ .

Chyros wrote:

mike52787 wrote: So, time for a 2nd opinion. I have asked around on gh about the correct lube to use on blue alps (they were filthy, and In washing them, all the original lube came off. ) I have heard good things about Dupont Teflon Silicone lubricant, but its somewhat expensive, so I want to make sure its the right tool for the job.

No-one has found a lube that really "works" on Alps switches yet. I don't think anyone can give you a guarantee here :/ .

Well, Ill give that Dupont lube a shot. If it works well, Ill probably re-lube my click modded greens. My 2nd blue alps board from taobao is finally moving as well, after being stuck in china for forever. If its anywhere near as dirty as my first one, Itll need washed and lubed as well.

mike52787 wrote: Well, Ill give that Dupont lube a shot. If it works well, Ill probably re-lube my click modded greens. My 2nd blue alps board from taobao is finally moving as well, after being stuck in china for forever. If its anywhere near as dirty as my first one, Itll need washed and lubed as well.

Keep us posted on it- A good lube would save a bunch of boards (including this 6311).

mike52787 wrote: So, time for a 2nd opinion. I have asked around on gh about the correct lube to use on blue alps (they were filthy, and In washing them, all the original lube came off. ) I have heard good things about Dupont Teflon Silicone lubricant, but its somewhat expensive, so I want to make sure its the right tool for the job.

My experience with the Dupont lube is that, initially, it dampens the click a little and makes the switch "mushy" but after actuating it for a bit it returns to being smooth and pretty closely imitates the original lubing. I am more concerned about the lube's long term effects on the switches, though. I think what I really need to do is just put together a board with the blue alps we recovered and use it for a bit so I can have more informed results. The problem is that I don't have a board I am willing to subject to that experiment... I guess I could just pick up another AT101W from somewhere and increase it's value by an order of magnitude

Built my "silent" AT101W today with Matias Quiet Clicks for the most-used keys (I had about 65 of them) and pine creams (non-dampened) for the balance, except for pine whites for a few keys where I wanted to be notified with a click (Escape, Num Lock, Caps Lock, etc).

Damn you, Tai Ho, for not making the proper space bar and Caps Lock!

FUCK. That looks sleek as SHIT. I'm not normally too much into the whole keycap thing, but that's one of the most elegant keyboards I've ever seen.

You, sir, have good taste.