deskthority

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 17:39**

Honestly , i don't know a huge amount about artisans and i don't care to .

I voted for the one that looks the best.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 17:45**

chuckdee wrote:
jkaos92 wrote:
No, in all honesty. Just because they have had QC problems, or anything else from them, takes nothing away from the artistic nature of the work. I have bought a few of their productions, and am satisfied with them, and think that they are beautiful.

Can you name another artisan maker that has made anything like that one shown in the shot on the finals? And that's an honest question, as I love that one. Or like the enter the stars or constellation?

A nomination in this category says nothing about any of the things that you speak of. It's more about the ideas and artistic nature. I leave problems in QC to the consumer to judge.

So you don't care about QC, ok, what about the other points? I'm not here to change you mind btw, you are definetely free to support JK like many other does, i just always reply when someone has a question for me.

Talking about your questions.

The one you voted for afaik it wasn't even a cap they produced, it was a giveaway (not sure maybe 1-4 caps).
There are many other artisans around similar to JellyKey (check out reddit/taobao or artisan makers like PrimeCap).
For the enter the stars or constellation just check out Idea23 or Taobao (better the first one of course), enjoy paying the cap 1/5 or 1/10 of JK price.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 17:52**

chuckdee wrote: And you should include the next post- that's not what I said. ALL of their keys are not done with that (and not implying that all of anyone else is using 3d printing). I was merely saying when he didn't read, that the things that they do that are not 3d printed sculpts are beautiful works of art.

Spoiler:

That is not 3d printed, and is a piece of art, in my opinion, and as they say - art is in the eye of the beholder.
And as to the Deskthority forum goers being in some way less, the voters decided. The Voters were invited from 3 different boards. If you didn't vote, or others that are in the know from whatever forum didn't vote, well, that's on them.

What are you talking about? The quote was not from you.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 17:59**

andrewjoy wrote: Honestly , i don't know a huge amount about artisans and i don't care to .

I voted for the one that looks the best.

Same here, I don’t know anything about artisan makers.
I found the Jelly Key nicer than the other candidates and voted for it, that’s that simple.

If anybody thinks we should have known that it was nominated as a joke, that the makers have quality issues or show bad behaviour, that they shouldn’t 3D print their caps, or whatever, they should have told before the vote closed - and not denigrate it after it won.

I heavily criticized iArson for the way he was trying to attract votes, but after he won, I congratulated (with a laugh

).
So I wish those hardcore purist artisan aficionados would stop whining - or perhaps do so on reddit

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 18:07**

Halvar wrote:
jkaos92 wrote: Without quoting everything
What you mean exactly, what should i explain, why i nominated and voted KF or why JK winning is a joke?

Umm just to let it be clear, you guys voted for a shady company that was nominated as a JOKE!

Meddle wrote: This entire thing is akin to a Budweiser product winning "Best Craft Beer".
Still not enough information for me to get it, I mean why them winning is a joke. OK, what I understood is that they had quality problems with their mounts.

How is the company shady? Why was it only nominated as a joke? I'm following artisan caps only very loosely, I voted for them because I found the design very original and different from what I've seen in artisan caps so far, that was all. Isn't that enough reason?

I understand the Budweiser referral as them not being a solo artist but a company. Does that make the design less original? Are the caps made in an industrial process? Their web site says they're hand made, is that a lie?

I'd really like some enlightenment here ...

I'll try to answer to the best of my ability here.

Joke nomination - the nomination that Webwit added in the first round was a picture of one of their many broken keycaps, along with the "nomination" text.

Shady? - Jellykey has a professional resin casting/moulding operation. This isn't something they're open about, instead choosing to plaster "handmade" over everything. As handmade as art made in a factory can be, I suppose. The caps that do show technical skill often don't ever see the market, as they wouldn't be feasible to produce in any reasonable number. The few fulfillment buys they have run have been rife with QC issues and subsequently; customer support issues.

The Budweiser analogy was in reference to them *not* being your typical mom and pop operation like every other nominee. They have relatively massive production capabilities due to previous experience in a similar domain, making IEMs.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 18:08**

Thanks gateron and jkaos92 for answering. I would probably not have voted for them if I had known about them employing shady business practices. For the keycaps, I still think that what they show on their website is beautiful and original. I don't know much about the process of the "real artists", most seem to be very secretive about them, but I see no huge difference in uniqueness between hand-making a mold that can be used many times with varying materials, and 3-d printing plus painting the result. But I may be wrong about that.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 18:34**

Meddle wrote: Jellykey has a professional resin casting/moulding operation.

Also called 3D printer

Joke asides, not sure what you mean here:

Code: Select all

This isn't something they're open about, instead choosing to plaster "handmade" over everything. As handmade as art made in a factory can be, I suppose. The caps that do show technical skill often don't ever see the market..

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 18:44**

jkaos92 wrote:
Meddle wrote: Jellykey has a professional resin casting/moulding operation.
Also called 3D printer
Joke asides, not sure what you mean here:
Code: Select all
This isn't something they're open about, instead choosing to plaster "handmade" over everything. As handmade as art made in a factory can be, I suppose. The caps that do show technical skill often don't ever see the market..

Which part? They used to make/manufacture resin IEMs and have manufacturing capabilities. The handmade shtick is for show.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 18:52**

Shouls have been clearer, this part: "The caps that do show technical skill often don't ever see the market", what is this supposed to mean, what is good doesn't hit the market, how you can tell.
Also, we are getting their garbage and they keep/private-sell good things based on this logic.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 19:01**

jkaos92 wrote: Shouls have been clearer, this part: "The caps that do show technical skill often don't ever see the market", what is this supposed to mean, what is good doesn't hit the market, how you can tell.
Also, we are getting their garbage and they keep/private-sell good things based on this logic.

I mean that they often show off admittedly cool caps or concepts. These caps get a ton of Reddit traction and upvotes but never see the light of day.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 19:06**

Meddle wrote:
jkaos92 wrote: Shouls have been clearer, this part: "The caps that do show technical skill often don't ever see the market", what is this supposed to mean, what is good doesn't hit the market, how you can tell.
Also, we are getting their garbage and they keep/private-sell good things based on this logic.
I mean that they often show off admittedly cool caps or concepts. These caps get a ton of Reddit traction and upvotes but never see the light of day.

This is true, however you can't base it on what they show because too many times what they showed wasn't really what people got later.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 19:17**

jkaos92 wrote:
Meddle wrote:
jkaos92 wrote: Shouls have been clearer, this part: "The caps that do show technical skill often don't ever see the market", what is this supposed to mean, what is good doesn't hit the market, how you can tell.
Also, we are getting their garbage and they keep/private-sell good things based on this logic.
I mean that they often show off admittedly cool caps or concepts. These caps get a ton of Reddit traction and upvotes but never see the light of day.
This is true, however you can't base it on what they show because too many times what they showed wasn't really what people got later.

Yep, too true. The end product is a complete crap shoot with them.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 19:18**

jkaos92 wrote:
So you don't care about QC, ok, what about the other points? I'm not here to change you mind btw, you are definetely free to support JK like many other does, i just always reply when someone has a question for me.

Talking about your questions.

The one you voted for afaik it wasn't even a cap they produced, it was a giveaway (not sure maybe 1-4 caps).
There are many other artisans around similar to JellyKey (check out reddit/taobao or artisan makers like PrimeCap).
For the enter the stars or constellation just check out Idea23 or Taobao (better the first one of course), enjoy paying the cap 1/5 or 1/10 of JK price.

In all honesty, the other things fall under the same CS/QC umbrella. I really don't care about the drama. I also don't care about if it's in full production or not. Does it exist? The pictures say that it does, and it's beautiful to me. It shows craftsmanship and artisanship. So I vote for it. It doesn't mean that it meets your standard necessarily- but it meets mine.

Like with Massdrop and the Ping. I don't agree. I see the difficulties behind, the volume that they're dealing with, and as long as it's rectified if they make an error (perhaps not a complete mea culpa and an outsized plan), I'm fine with the service. But that's my perspective and to my expectation. So I don't go bitching about the fact that they won the Ping. In the end, it doesn't matter to me.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 19:30**

chuckdee wrote:
jkaos92 wrote:
So you don't care about QC, ok, what about the other points? I'm not here to change you mind btw, you are definetely free to support JK like many other does, i just always reply when someone has a question for me.

Talking about your questions.

The one you voted for afaik it wasn't even a cap they produced, it was a giveaway (not sure maybe 1-4 caps).
There are many other artisans around similar to JellyKey (check out reddit/taobao or artisan makers like PrimeCap).
For the enter the stars or constellation just check out Idea23 or Taobao (better the first one of course), enjoy paying the cap 1/5 or 1/10 of JK price.
In all honesty, the other things fall under the same CS/QC umbrella. I really don't care about the drama. I also don't care about if it's in full production or not. Does it exist? The pictures say that it does, and it's beautiful to me. It shows craftsmanship and artisanship. So I vote for it. It doesn't mean that it meets your standard necessarily- but it meets mine.

Like with Massdrop and the Ping. I don't agree. I see the difficulties behind, the volume that they're dealing with, and as long as it's rectified if they make an error (perhaps not a complete mea culpa and an outsized plan), I'm fine with the service. But that's my perspective and to my expectation. So I don't go bitching about the fact that they won the Ping. In the end, it doesn't matter to me.

I literally answered to your question, I'm not bitching lol

Quoting you:

Code: Select all

Can you name another artisan maker that has made anything like that one shown in the shot on the finals? And that's an honest question, as I love that one. Or like the enter the stars or constellation?

Also, NO the other doesn't fall under the same CS/QC, even with bigger quantities (e.g. idea23 enter the stars and costellation). Also if something happens they will replace your caps with no bitching, probably also sending other freecaps at their cost (to be clear I'm not praising idea23 now, just doing an example since you asked artisans similar to the 2 mentioned above).

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 19:38**

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 20:17**

jkaos92 wrote:
chuckdee wrote:
jkaos92 wrote:
So you don't care about QC, ok, what about the other points? I'm not here to change you mind btw, you are definetely free to support JK like many other does, i just always reply when someone has a question for me.

Talking about your questions.

The one you voted for afaik it wasn't even a cap they produced, it was a giveaway (not sure maybe 1-4 caps).
There are many other artisans around similar to JellyKey (check out reddit/taobao or artisan makers like PrimeCap).
For the enter the stars or constellation just check out Idea23 or Taobao (better the first one of course), enjoy paying the cap 1/5 or 1/10 of JK price.
In all honesty, the other things fall under the same CS/QC umbrella. I really don't care about the drama. I also don't care about if it's in full production or not. Does it exist? The pictures say that it does, and it's beautiful to me. It shows craftsmanship and artisanship. So I vote for it. It doesn't mean that it meets your standard necessarily- but it meets mine.

Like with Massdrop and the Ping. I don't agree. I see the difficulties behind, the volume that they're dealing with, and as long as it's rectified if they make an error (perhaps not a complete mea culpa and an outsized plan), I'm fine with the service. But that's my perspective and to my expectation. So I don't go bitching about the fact that they won the Ping. In the end, it doesn't matter to me.
I literally answered to your question, I'm not bitching lol

Quoting you:
Code: Select all
Can you name another artisan maker that has made anything like that one shown in the shot on the finals? And that's an honest question, as I love that one. Or like the enter the stars or constellation?
Also, NO the other doesn't fall under the same CS/QC, even with bigger quantities (e.g. idea23 enter the stars and costellation). Also if something happens they will replace your caps with no bitching, probably also sending other freecaps at their cost (to be clear I'm not praising idea23 now, just doing an example since you asked artisans similar to the 2 mentioned above).

So you're telling me what my criteria should be?

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 20:34**

Just jump right here for the 3D part

Our answer in this topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... ear_again/

"Hi /u/eizdeb
Thank you so much for your straightforward about our communication problem, it is very constructive.

We admit that we mess up with the definition and cause the confusion for everyone. Guardian of the East was designed with 3D design software, but it was handcrafted by our team.

We make a master mold with a high-quality 3D printer. It cost us more than the price of the keycap. Then we use that master model to cast with resin and silicon. You can click to the link of 1/2 cut of Guardian of the East to see the inside. We cast it multiple time to get a finish keycap.

The keycap everyone received was not printed by 3D machine, which usually cost around 25k+ USD to purchase (we got the price reference when we visited toy fair in Hong Kong). We don't have that much money, to be honest.

We can do both clays sculpt and 3D design, it both takes us the same amount time to design. We stop doing 3D print for long since we acknowledge that the community doesn't have a positive thought for 3D designer.

With us the ideas are more important, 3D design software is one of the tools that we use to transform our ideas into a real-life object, no excuse here.

Hope that we can use our 3D design skill in the future when the community has a more open mind for 3D designer.
Sorry for the long post and my 5th grade English."

The keycap is cut into 1/2: https://imgur.com/a/iKJat

Besides in the same reddit post.

Thank you for being the best "anti-fan". just kidding! /u/kustom3
We take the video clips very positively, like everyone. We enjoy the great work that you contributed to this subreddit.

The title of the award was: "Best Artisan Keycap". So I thought it was just for the keycap, not the maker.

We believe ourselves is not the best artisan team, the keycap we made just happened to get more attention.

We would nominate HW for the best artisan team.

Kindly accept our Shangri la flow as a sign of peace, and we hope that we can watch more clip from you!

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 20:48**

After all is said and done, and everyone has complained about everything he needed to get off his chest, may I suggest that...

The DTA 2018 awards should do as they do in the Hugos and allow a "no award" vote.

There. Flame away.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 20:59**

depletedvespene wrote: After all is said and done, and everyone has complained about everything he needed to get off his chest, may I suggest that...

The DTA 2018 awards should do as they do in the Hugos and allow a "no award" vote.

There. Flame away.

I agree. I believe many people voted just to enter into the raffle even thought they don't like artisans. A "I don't like artisan" or a "i don't like any of these" would be good imho (actually it would be good in any category).

If eventually the "I don't like any" wins they can just give the prize to the second one and count it as the winner, at least this way people can enter in the prize pool without alterating the vote on a award they don't care about.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 21:04**

#dta2018ideas

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 21:10**

jellykey wrote: Just jump right here for the 3D part

Our answer in this topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... ear_again/

[…]

Thanks for the link! Another reminder of why I avoid /r/mk like the plague. Talking about key caps having ‘no profile’, while praising stuff like that…

I wonder whether ripster is proud of this abomination.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 21:31**

depletedvespene wrote:
The DTA 2018 awards should do as they do in the Hugos and allow a "no award" vote.

There. Flame away.

The great thing is that this could turn the Best Artisan Keycap Award in a sort of legendary super-hard-to-get prize for artisans makers in general.

The ancient legend says that only a knight of the most pure heart can sculpt an artisan worth of Deskthority.
- (an r/mechanicalkeyboards post, November 2034)

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 21:39**

DustGod wrote: […]
The great thing is that this could turn the Best Artisan Keycap Award in a sort of legendary super-hard-to-get prize for artisans makers in general.

The ancient legend says that only a knight of the most pure heart can sculpt an artisan worth of Deskthority.
- (an r/mechanicalkeyboards post, November 2034)

I have the perfect idea already: Is there an animal whose poop is about keycap size?

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 21:42**

jkaos92 wrote: Instead JK won again, caps that i wouldn't even define artisans, mostly because their caps looks like actualy keycaps.

For me, a keycap is useless if I can't use the key in normal typing, regardless of how it looks.
Yes, I voted for that Jelly Key partly because of that reason and because that keycap looked the best in my opinion. Normally, I don't give a rat's ass about artisans, and neither do a lot of other voters so they can't really be in the know about it. You will have to accept that. That's how this works.

Note that this award is for a single keycap, not who is the best artisan. Also, how it was made is unimportant.
I also do sculpting, moulding and casting sometimes, just not keycaps: You use the right tool for the job - for whatever reason that is. You don't use an inferior method just because it is "more real".

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 21:45**

Lustique wrote:
DustGod wrote: […]
The great thing is that this could turn the Best Artisan Keycap Award in a sort of legendary super-hard-to-get prize for artisans makers in general.

The ancient legend says that only a knight of the most pure heart can sculpt an artisan worth of Deskthority.
- (an r/mechanicalkeyboards post, November 2034)
I have the perfect idea already: Is there an animal whose poop is about keycap size?

Maybe rabbit poo.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 21:49**

Note that this award is for a single keycap, not who is the best artisan

No it isn't. Did you vote with this in mind? Yikes.

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 21:53**

Lustique wrote:
DustGod wrote: […]
The great thing is that this could turn the Best Artisan Keycap Award in a sort of legendary super-hard-to-get prize for artisans makers in general.

The ancient legend says that only a knight of the most pure heart can sculpt an artisan worth of Deskthority.
- (an r/mechanicalkeyboards post, November 2034)
I have the perfect idea already: Is there an animal whose poop is about keycap size?

That would give a new meaning to the expression "This keyboard is a piece of shit!".

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 21:58**

Meddle wrote:
Note that this award is for a single keycap, not who is the best artisan
No it isn't. Did you vote with this in mind? Yikes.

that is exactly what this is for !

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 22:07**

Meddle wrote:
Note that this award is for a single keycap, not who is the best artisan
No it isn't. Did you vote with this in mind? Yikes.

OK, you got me. It was for best artisan keycap, best artisan keyset or best artisan this year.
But my point still stands. Unless you are deep into the very esoteric artisan community, then you can't possibly be in the know about the latter category and you have to vote for one of the earlier and that is what I did.

I'm soo soo sorry that we are not as l33t as you are!

Posted: **07 Dec 2017, 22:19**

I understand why some people would be frustrated about the quality issues, but they did make a keycap that I would actually put on my keyboard. I want my keyboards to look clean and professional, not something that should be hiding in the nightmare where the artist found their inspiration.

deskthority

Best artisan keycap