deskthority

002 wrote:I wonder if it would be a good idea to put a restriction on the switch try bag so that users with less than ~10 posts or so cannot participate?

I think that this would give the organiser a fair idea of somebody's personality and could prevent this very generous experiment from being ruined by some dud who decides to close his account, nick the switches, and ruin it for everyone.

The obvious con is that someone who is new to the forum would need to wait a little longer, but if they were that eager to try the switches out, I'm sure they could understand the restriction.

I agree even though I don't have more than 10 posts.

Personally I'm surprised the mail didn't fuck up things so far. Lots of movements.

webwit wrote:Wait, you joined yesterday (see further above) when your head was still exploding, and in one day MrInterface is "neglecting" Europeans, because you aren't on the top of the list immediately? This disappoints you and Europeans should have more rights to the free switch bag than Australians? If you had been here earlier and the bag would have been in Europe you'd have to wait even longer because the list was longer. I don't think you realize how many expensive keyboards MrInterface had to mutilate in order to give this to the community, or you wouldn't have been so crazy to complain, stranger.

not trying to sound like a dick but first things first..

- the bag is in australia.. if 30 more people suddenly want to test the switches aswell just because they all live in australia, i (that has been on the list earlier) have to wait for it to go past 30 more people.. makes sense right?

- europeans more rights etc etc? do you read english? you must be on the ausie witch doctor pipe or something..

- i really appreciate the trouble mrinterface is going through to get this ball rolling, and i really do appreciate the trouble.. i'm just stating i dislike the listing system that is all.. since when do people get attacked for having an opinion jesus christ..

kbdfr wrote:

AvenZerg wrote:(...) you should start making continental try bags since (...)

That's pretty disgusting.
Here's a guy who puts his knowledge, his own stuff and his initiative to the service of a lot of people all over the world at no cost, and you still find that's not enough? What did you contribute so far?

Mrinterface wrote:(...) so Avenzerg is still welcome to join (...)

Perhaps someone should first inform AvenZerg that he (and not Mrinterface) will have to pay the shipping costs to send the bag to the next person on the list.

I am aware the switches belong to him and i haven't contributed anything yet.. =) (notice the last word)
thank you for the heads up, i really was not aware of that.. >__>

and to mrinterface i thank you for not taking things out of context and i would still like to review those switches..

I update the first post in this thread with the first continental sinklist item : EUROPE.

Also : Americans and Canadians can apply for the AMERICAN/CANADIAN switch try bag. The first switch try bag will be re-baptized after its trip from Australia.

Regards.

Thanks for all the effort you're going to Mrinterface!

Just got the STBAG!!, expect a review really soon =)
i would suggest making an exclusive thread called "STBAG Switch Reviews" (or something along those lines)
this is just for filter purposes. (just a suggestion)

Hi Guys,

I just received the switch try bag! I’ll write up my experiences as soon as I can

[Account and posts deleted on request]

cactux wrote:How much time are we entitled to keep the switches?
@magebro: did you send the switches to the next person already?

The time you keep the switches must be as short as possible.....

It has been sent to the next : Bilbin

Regards.

[Account and posts deleted on request]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the delay in posting my little review, it’s the exam period at the moment so things are a bit hectic.

Firstly I’d like to thank Mrinterface for all his hard work and allowing me to be part of this sink list even though I am an unknown on this forum. I think it’s great that something like this can be sent around the world to anyone who is willing to participate with no one abusing the system.

I also think the rubber O-rings are a great addition and thanks to pascoa341 for including them! I did however find that they were a little big for my liking which led to too much reduction in key travel. I have included some smaller O-rings which are a pain to install but if it’s done right, they do the same job with a much smaller reduction in key travel.

I’m a bit of a novice when it comes to comparing key switches as the only mechanical keyboard I own is a Filco MX Blue. I don’t know many of the technical aspects of these switches so I have just written down my initial thoughts which I hope someone will find useful. Please go easy on me if I make any mistakes.

Tactile, Non-Click

Cherry MX Clear
I really like this switch and it may possibly be my favourite of the bunch. It has a very pronounced tactile bump in the middle of the stroke which I really like and is very easy to not bottom out on; even when tapping quite quickly. My only concern is the force needed for the switch to actuate. While it’s fine holding it on one hand and tapping it with my index finger, it might be a different story when typing for a long period of time. If this switch had the spring of the MX Brown, I think it may be my new favourite switch.

Cherry MX Brown
To me, the MX Brown feels just like a cut back version of the MX Clear. It is much lighter and the tactile bump is much smaller. I still really like it but I wish it was more tactile as I found that the bump got quite difficult to notice the faster the switch was tapped. I guess this is why people recommended it for people who type as well as play games.

Black Complicated Alps
I like that this switch feels lighter than the MX Clear and more tactile then the MX Brown but the way the switch works seems to make it want to bottom out as soon as you get past the tactile bump. This seems to be because the tactile bump is at the very top of the key stroke so you tend to apply more pressure than necessary with little time to adjust.
Also I’m not sure if this is correct but the switch seems to want to replicate the same kind of tactility of a rubber dome switch. There is a lot of tactility at the top of the stroke then falls down quickly. It does, however feel much crisper than rubber domes and will be more durable.

White Complicated Dampened Alps
This switch feels very similar to the Black complicated Alps but slightly lighter. It does however, as the name suggests, feel dampened. It’s hard to describe but you can tell that there is something inside the switch stopping it from making the clicking sound which also dampens the entire feel of the switch. I’ve no idea why anyone would choose this switch over the Black Complicated Alps.

Cherry ML
Being a low profile switch, I don’t think it should be held to the same high standards as full size switches. Saying that, I’m not really sure what this switch is for. I’m pretty sure it’s not in any current laptops but I’m not sure if it’s been in any older ones. I’ve never understood people who would choose low profile switches over full switches for a regular keyboard but I guess if everyone wanted the same thing then there would only be one type of switch to begin with.

If this switch were in a laptop I would be very happy as it has a more pronounced tactile bump and is slightly stiffer then the MX Brown, but has less key travel due to it being low profile. It doesn’t feel as smooth as the other switches but I guess being low profile has some trade-offs.

Tactile, Click

Cherry MX Blue
This switch is in my keyboard that I use every day so I have a lot of experience with it. The force needed to actuate is almost perfect for me and I really like the tactile bump. While the clickyness doesn’t bother me at all, some of my friends seem to get annoyed while I’m typing and is easily noticeable over the phone and on skype. I think it would be better if the click was slightly lower pitched like the grey Alps.

I have heard some people express a concern that this switch isn’t very good for playing games due to some double tapping issue among others. I play many different games but mainly StarCraft 2 and I have had no problems with it at all. One of the best SC2 pros (SlayerS_Boxer) used these switches and if they are good enough for him, I’m sure the problem is non-existent.

Grey Alps
This switch feels very similar to the Black Complicated Alps but seems to be very slightly stiffer. The main difference is the audible click and also the fact that it feels much crisper. I prefer the tone of the click over the MX Blue but like the other Alps switches, it bottoms out as soon as the key is actuated. I’m not sure if this would be a problem and would like to try a keyboard based on these switches.

Linear

Cherry MX Black
This switch seems to be the favourite among FPS gamers and I can’t really give my full opinion on that until I actually play a game using them. They do however, feel very heavy and I can imagine getting tired of them after long gaming sessions or writing huge chunks of text.

There doesn’t seem to be much to say about them really, pick up a spring and press on it and that’s what these feel like.

Cherry MX Red
These are exactly the same as the MX Blacks only lighter. That does however make a big difference and I don’t think they would fatigue people as much. I’m not really sure why the MX Blacks took off but the MX Reds haven’t, but I think gamers would much prefer these over the Blacks.

Got them today, here's my experience, had a little cider since it's extremely hot in my room so sorry if I've worded something incorrectly or it's an eyesore, at least I tried:

The Cherry MX Clear switch is amazing, putting in a spring from red, brown or blue into the clear stem to make it an "ergo" clear would make it even more amazing, my favourite switch from the bag I want an ergo clear board to type with in the night since blues are too loud for these thin walls . Brown switch isn't tactile enough and feels a bit pissy.

Red and black switch are boring linear, linear resistance is boring, no tactility obviously. The only difference between them is the weight, the spring in the red switch seems a bit old or rusty? Has a sort of ring/ping to it and it crunches a little when it's close to the ear, maybe someone dropped water in it.

Now to the alps switches, the grey clicky is pretty nice, the audible click isn't as prominent as the blues and the feel is duller, the black complicated alps is a lot better than the white complicated dampened alps, the tactile feel in the black is better than the brown switch, the white alps isn't tactile enough, but with these 3 alps switches the bottom feels like it's .01mm away from the actuating point and they're all a bit heavy, these switches would be quite a problem if you don't bottom out when typing in my opinion.

The ML switch is better than a scissor switch for laptops, wouldn't use it though since it's low profile and a bit boring.

I only used the foam dampeners on the blue switch to see how it would be and I don't see a difference, not too worried about them but thanks for including!

Thanks Mrinterface, an amazing idea and a big help to a lot of people, am ready to send to next person

I've received the switches! Thanks for sending them out to me so quickly, Bilbin.

Right now I'm blinded by the contrast of that doubleshot keycap but I'll post impressions soon as I recover.

Here are my impressions.

Cherry MX Red and Black: exactly as one would expect a linear switch to feel like except with differing force. Not my thing.

Cherry MX Brown: light and not much tactility. Fairly inoffensive but not very impressive. For me the tactility is enough to ruin the smoothness of a linear switch that I can almost imagine some people preferring but not enough to be enjoyable.

Cherry MX Blue: the only Cherry switch I've liked enough to use extensively having tried Brown and Black as well. Medium actuation force with a fairly high pitched click and very precise tactile point. Sort of sounds like there's something bouncing inside the switch, which of course there is. Still, it's a little light for me after trying buckling springs and the click sounds more high pitched and less authoritative than clicky ALPS or buckling springs. Idiosyncratic release point is also suboptimal for games, though easily superior to the abruptly tactile ALPS.

Cherry MX Clear: very similar to what I expected and hoped browns to be like, minus the stiffness. Prominent tactile point although the subsequent force is a bit too much for my liking. I think I prefer this kind of tactility to that of the Blue switches. The Clear tactility feels like a fairly prominent bump whereas the Blues decrease in pressure after a lighter tactile point, which while definitely sharper does not have the same bumpy impact. I'd really like to try a full board of these.

Grey Clicky Alps: very precise tactile point like the MX Blue but more tactile, with the usual abrupt bottoming out. Compared to the Blues it is stiffer and possesses a less high pitched and more thunky, impactful sound. I'm fairly sure I would find this superior to the Blue switches for typing.

Cherry ML: very short travel with a small tactile point at the start. The tactility on this switch feels a bit gritty compared to a near new G84-4100 I tried, not necessarily a bad thing since it does feel more tactile. Would not be all that bad for a short travel switch if not for the key sticking.

White Complicated Dampened Alps: dampened is the right word to describe the sound. Feels similar to the MX Clear but with less force required and a tactile point that is wider and far more frictiony.

Black Complicated Nonclicky Alps: actually has a click, albeit a very light one. Tactile point consists of a minor bump consisting of force ramping up significantly. Not terrible as I had expected but I think the MX Clear has a much better arrangement with more prominent tactility and a similar although larger subsequent increase in force.

I guess I have learned here that:

- I'd like to try a clear board.
- I'd really like to try a clear board with blue or black springs.
- I'd still like to try a Topre, which is as far as my desire for exotic boards go.

Thanks Mrinterface for making this possible

[Account and posts deleted on request]

By the way, forgot to say thanks whoever put that Rugby article in the switch bag when they sent it to me

Hey guys! I've finally had the time to review those awsome switches that mr.interface sent me. I've had more than enough time to decide which switch would suit me best and how the switches feel and sound. They have been laying on the side of my desk for the longest time now and i have been touching and pressing them ever since.. I'm going to review them with a gaming mindset.

So here goes!
The (#) Indicates the intensity of the switches, with 1# being the least amount of Feel/Noise/Force and 5# being the most.

I will start with the ALPS switches:

White ALPS
Tactile: Yes (# # #)
Clicky: No
Overview: Although i seem to dislike the way Alps feel in general i would have probably picked this one of the three because it seems like it's the lightest in pressing down (altho very slightly) and makes the least amount of noise.

Black ALPS
Tactile: Yes (# # #)
Clicky: Yes (#)
Overview: I know it says something else on the list of switches but this is my experience with it, It feels pretty much identitical to the white alps but makes a little more noise. I wish i had something else to add about this switch but unfortunately i don't.

Grey ALPS
Tactile: Yes (# # # #)
Clicky: Yes (# # # # #)
Overview: This thing makes a racket! the clicky noises are distinctively different from the cherry mx blue switches, they seem to make a more "clack" pitched sound as oppose to the MX Blue's that sound more "clicky" I could imagine people loving the noise and feel of this thing, i personally disliked it.


Summary of the ALPS switches:
I can imagine them being very fun switches for people looking for a "typing only" keyboard. The reason i say this is because of their weird tactile nature (not very double tapping friendly).The feel of the keys (not sound) comes very close to a brand new rubber dome keyboard, where the feel of your "brand" new rubber dome keyboard will wear off over time, the alps will probably still feel brand new over the course of their lifetime.


The Cherry switches

Cherry MX Black
Linear: Yes (# # #)
Non tactile or clicky
Overview: Altho i prefer the Cherry MX switches over the ALPS switches this one is my least favourite of the bunch. My first impression was "not very pressing friendly switch" and i can imagine these becoming rather fatigueing in long gaming sessions because of their rather stiff linear nature, but this is of course entirely subjective. EGIdra uses cherry mx blacks and he is a sick zerg baller.

Cherry MX Red
Linear: Yes (#)
Non tactile or clicky
Overview: Before getting the switch try bag i was convinced this was the switch to rule them all! and altho it is as good as i had imagined i found out i probably would like a very subtle tactile feel to my keys. they feel exactly the same in terms of force to press down as the cherry mx brown in my honest opinion. but alot lighter than the blacks.. very light switch.

Cherry MX Brown
Tactile: Yes (#)
Clicky: No
Overview: Just perfect.. It's just as light as the cherry mx red and it has very subtle (neglectable) tactile feedback. I don't even notice the tactility when i repeat pressing it down fast, and altho i might not notice it, i do think in long gaming sessions my brain would subconsciously appreciate the subtle tactile feedback that this switch provides.

Cherry MX Clears
Tactile: Yes (# # #)
Clicky: No
Overview: This switch (as oppose to the browns) has a pretty noticeable tactility to it. and altho it's the same switch i personally would go for the browns but that's probably because i am a "light switch" fan. BUT on the other hand i can see some very good uses to this one tho.. i will modify my cherry mx brown keyboard with a few clears, probably going to change all the F1/12 keys and ESC key with cherry mx clears, also my CTRL/ALT/SHIFT/CAPSLOCK/ENTER/BACKSPACE keys will be outfitted with this switch.. the reasoning for just these keys is because i don't use them too much anyway and this is so i will have an even better idea of what i'm pressing down whilst gaming..

Cherry MX Blue
Tactile: Yes (# #)
Clicky: Yes (# # #)
Overview: This is also a light switch, probably just as light as the browns (just a teensy bit heavier) the noise it makes sounds better than the Grey ALPS switches and altho i like the sound at the outset i have a feeling i would dislike this switch gradually more and more over the course of using it, the sound it makes wouldn't suit everybody (but would probably suit the majority of people). Double clicking with this switch can give you slight problems. The clickyness is a good thing to let you know you pressed a key but the small double clicking error kind of makes this switch a double edge sword.

Cherry ML
Tactile: Yes (# #)
Clicky: No
Overview: Please deliver me from laptop'ish keyboards, laptop keyboards are the worst invention since the discovery of the wheel! the only reason i hate using laptops is because of the HID's used on them. This switch however feels alot better than 90% of laptop keyboard switches i have used so far.. but this isn't saying much as i wouldn't be cought dead actually buying a keyboard with this switch ^__^

Summary of the Cherry Switches:
There is alot of diversity among cherry switches and i am convinced these switches offer a good variety of options to people that are nerdy about their keyboard like myself. It's pretty clear which switch i favour (cherry mx browns) for gaming and most likely for typing aswell. The cherry reds would come at a close second place.
Thanks for reading!

Ok so it's time for my review now!

I'll make it pretty short, don't worry! I'm just going to give my overall thoughts and opinions on the different switches.

Linear
Cherry MX Black
So, first off, I must say that I prefer a bit of feedback in my keys... so I'm not a big fan of the Linear switches - you just don't really know if you've actuated them or not, until you hit the bottom
It is quiet, so that's a good point... but I think I need some sort of tactile bump on actuation.
Very common for gaming keyboards - which I almost find surprising, give you can't tell if you've pressed it or not lol
Also, if you're "double pressing" it, you can't tell the point at which it starts, stops, and then starts being actuated. I think this would annoying me in practice...
Maybe it's just me...

Cherry MX Red
Just like the Cherry MX Black, but requires a little less force to press.
Starting to become more common for gaming keyboards.

Tactile + Clicky
Cherry MX Blue
Holy crap, these things are noisy (and annoying)
They feel pretty good, though! It's just that noise... would drive me and everyone else insane lol

Alps Grey
A much nicer clicky noise - much less high pitched. Still loud enough to be annoying when using a microphone (Ventrillo user lol). But I actually quite like this one. The noise is almost soothing - I'm a game programmer, so I do a lot of monotonous typing late into the night lol
The best thing about this one is the feel - it's not got too much travel distance after actuation, which I like, and you can definitely tell when you've actuated it.
Too bad I don't think I'll ever find a keyboard that I like that actually uses these switches

Tactile + Non-Clicky
Cherry MX Clear
Not too bad - I really like the fact that they're silent. I'm still not a huge fan of the 4mm travel distance after actuation that all the Cherry switches have... I kind of prefer a binary "it's pressed or it's not" type of switch... But I'd have to say that this would be my favourite of all the Cherry switches.

Cherry MX Brown
Just like the Cherry MX Clear, but requires a little less force to press. Also, I think the tactile bump could be a little stronger...

Alps Black
Oh, I actually quite like this one
It feels pretty good! Still has a noticeable tactile bump, and isn't too loud. Travel distance feels about right.
Once again, the main problem is probably that it'd be hard to find a good keyboard with this switch in it...
I prefer the feel of the Alps Grey a bit better - but I like how this one is quieter.

Alps White
Similar to the Alps Black, but just feels a little more "squishy"... I don't like it as much. But it's still ok.

Cherry ML
Heh, this one is kinda fun to play with. Much smaller travel distance, would be great for a laptop keyboard too, given the smaller size. Actually feels quite nice.

Conclusion
Ok, so my 3 favourites are...

Alps Grey - Overall, this one feels the best! A little too noisy, but I could probably put up with that...
Alps Black - Still feels pretty good, and is quieter, so that's great. I like this one.
Cherry Clear - Doesn't feel as tactile as the Alps switches, and has too much travel distance after actuation. But on the whole, it's not too bad. At least it's quiet

I hope my review is helpful to someone...

Im new here and was thinking of getting a mechanical keyboard, the try bag would be ideal to test the switches before buying as the keyboards are pricey, I would like to join the Euro queue but as im new here I understand if it isn't possible yet.

Thanks.

Mark

Markybhoy wrote:Im new here and was thinking of getting a mechanical keyboard, the try bag would be ideal to test the switches before buying as the keyboards are pricey, I would like to join the Euro queue but as im new here I understand if it isn't possible yet.

Thanks.

Mark

Welcome!

Added to EUROPE queue

Linear
Cherry MX Red
I truly understand the concept 'typing on boobs' now.
This is a very light switch, at first I thought linear switches would give me the same feel as a classic rubber dome keyboard but I was wrong, this gives a very nice feel and I understand why many FPS gamers like this switch.

Cherry MX Black
This is pretty much the same switch as the red one, but much stiffer (feels like 1.6x harder to press).
I honestly don't see an advantage of blacks over any keyboard, their not eligible for touch-typing nor are they extremely light. Those switches will probably fatigue my fingers after long periods of typing -> not my favorite.


Tactile & Clicky
Cherry MX Blue
A very light switch with an irritating sound.
You can probably type on those switches very fast as they have a nice bump (very light though) in them but still take little to no effort to actuate.

Alps Grey
This is probably the most tactile switch in the bag.
It feels like it has a very light spring (like MX Reds) BUT have a very stiff bump in them.
Those switches feel very nice, and also come with a nice clicky sound (much better compared to the MX Blue switches)
But because of the heavy bump and light spring it seems hard to not bottom out those keys

Tactile & Non-Clicky
Cherry MX Clear
This feels like a Cherry MX Black switch with a tactile bump in it.
I guess you can touch-type on those, but they still require allot of force to be pushed.
Definitely not my taste.

Cherry MX Brown
I thought an MX Brown was an MX Blue without the annoying noise, well its not!
The brown switches require a bit more force then blues and their bump also lays lower (meaning you to push them "deeper" ).

Alps Black
A very nice switch (ALPS Impressed me), very nice tactile feel and their not to hard to push.
Although the little paper next to me says "Nonclicky" they do make sound, but not as much as the Grey ALPS or the MX Blue. The sound does probably give little to none advantage in touch-typing

Alps White
They feel like Black Alps with a stiffer spring.
I don't like it.

Cherry ML
Small switches (twice as small?), could be used in laptop or thin keyboards (illuminated ones).
They feel like small, short Cherry clears.




Hell, its really hard to explain on how a switch feels, its much easier to compare them with eachother.
Seriously, ask for this bag and you'll know what you want

Replied to your pm trax, thanks

This is a really great idea and will help many people. If I had this in the past I might have saved a ton of money, but collecting keyboards is all of the fun. Props to the OP for setting this up!

I know I'm new, but if this bag goes to the UK, and I take a look?

mrog wrote:I know I'm new, but if this bag goes to the UK, and I take a look?

I put you on the list....

Regards.

Thanks Mrinterface - Its a great thing your doing here!

cmh wrote:This is a really great idea and will help many people. If I had this in the past I might have saved a ton of money, but collecting keyboards is all of the fun. Props to the OP for setting this up!

Ha; ur lucky - I've just send the bag to Markybhoy, he lives in the UK

Sweet, actually Markybhoy - you have my address now - if i'm close enough I can consider collecting off you to save you some costs.

The bag arrived today and will try try them out over the next few days then pass them on to mrog, im in Glasgow so will be a bit of a walk for you mrog

Yeah... I might give that one a miss. Shame a friend was in Glasgow for a meeting just last week - if only the timing was a little better.