deskthority

So, long story short:

I have a max keyboard nighthawk x8. A couple of days ago, I shut down my computer, then unplugged it (for whatever reason), like half an hour after the computer had completely shut down. It stood like that (without power) for something like 20 hours, after I turned it on my keyboard wasn't working anymore. I suppose it has something to do with the small battery on the mobo (the one which saves all the basic stuff) running out, and the something fucking up badly when I turned on the computer on the next time.

Now the keyboard it's only recognized by the computer as "generic usb hub". I asked support and they think the firmware is damaged, and I need a 40$ piece of hardware to re-flash it. Obviously firmware is not covered by warranty.
So nice, a 150$ keyboard gets randomly damaged for totally unknown reason (COMPUTER WAS TURNED OFF!) and I need to spend an additional 40$ to *maybe* repair it.

Now, I have researched around for a way to fix the firmware. My basic idea was, that if I can have the firwmare file, there should be some way to push it to the keyboard, since the computer is able to connect to it: it's only recognized as a wrong piece of hardware. This is how I end up on this forum, fidning the thread "How to build your very own keyboard firmware" (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/how- ... ml#p141386).
Forgetting the part about writing the firmware, which is not relevant for me at this point, I am not able to reach my keyboard with the instructions I got there.


I am willing to follow instructions and even open up the keyboard and such. My idea was to be able to run some piece of software on the computer which would allow me to do "install firmware xyz [file which I will get from the manufacturer] to whatever is in usb port xy right now". I think this should do the trick. The problem is that I am not able to do that on my own.
So, anyone is willing to help me do that?

Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

The instructions here are for custom keyboards built around the Teensy project board. Your keyboard isn't likely to be Teensy based! Likely fully proprietary, and you're SOL.

At least we learned those MAX guys are complete clowns. They owe you a new keyboard.

Firmware flashing doesn't exactly work like that. Imagine if I could flash the firmware of an mp3 player to my DSLR!
And firmware doesn't crap out that easily, at least in most cases.
Did you try it on another computer? It could be just a messed up driver and the keyboard might be just fine...
Is it our of waranty?

Hei thank you for the fast answer.

Since it seems you're really keyboard experts (I have checked some of the custom builds, Amazing!), here's what happened in full lenght, so you can also check out what I tried and what not.

Yesterday evening, after shutting down my computer completely, for whatever reason I also plugged it's plug. I did it something like 30 min after shutting it down, so it was 100% shut when I plugged off. The computer was plugged off for around 20 hours or so. When I started it today, my mechanical keyboard, a max keyboard nighthawk x8, wasn't working anymore. The keyboard is connected via USB to the computer.

I removed removed all other stuff connected to usb ports (apart from the mouse)
and tried the following (with various reboots between each try)
- try different usb ports, usb3 and usb2
- uninstall the drivers from device manager that somehow related to the keyboard, or input devices
--> uninstall and "delete" them (the one I could)
--> uninstall and delete also the "hidden" ones
--> uninstall and delete ALL the ones related to usb/keyboard/input, rebooted and tried reconnecting
- format my entire computer
- connect the keyboard through an USB hub, which is powered on it's own
- connect the keyboard via USB to 2 others working computers
- try re-installing and also going without razer synapse, which is the driver for my mouse (that being a generic software driver for keyboard and mouse might have done interference)

Of all the tries the result I have had is Always the same: either the keyboard is not recognized at all, or it is recognized as "generic usb hub", with the yellow "not working" marker. The keyboard doesn't work nor lights up even at this stage. If I am not wrong, it's only recognized in the same usb port, even after the format, and it's Always only in a usb3 port. I am not 100% sure on this though. As I said on other computers it's not recognized: when I plug it in the computer recognizes that something is connected, device manager "flashes" but nothing pops up.

Here's my thought on what could have happened. Keep in mind the keyboard itself has 2 usb ports on it. When plugging the plug from my computer, it started using the small batter it has integrated in the motherboard, which I think saves some basic information. Over the 20 hours the computer was unplugged, even that battery ran off, and the computer thus forgot all basic information. Then, when I started it back again today, it somehow recognized the keyboard - because it has usb ports on its own- as a usb port, and managed to fuck with it's firmware, so that now the keyboard thinks it's a usb port too (that's why when I attach it it only says "generic usb hub"). I even tried to remove the battery on the mobo from the computer for a couple of minutes and the restarting but it didn't change.

I need to check with an usb to ps2 adapter if something happens.

chzel wrote: Firmware flashing doesn't exactly work like that. Imagine if I could flash the firmware of an mp3 player to my DSLR!
And firmware doesn't crap out that easily, at least in most cases.
Did you try it on another computer? It could be just a messed up driver and the keyboard might be just fine...
Is it our of waranty?

Yes exactly, how the hell can a firmware get damaged like that? I could understand if I was doing something with it, like upgrading, but what I basically did was turn off and turn on the computer...

It is still under warranty, but I have been told that firmware problems aren't covered. I am double check that directly with max keyboard. One obvious solution is to send the keyboard to them, but since they are in the US and I am in europe, the cost of shipping both ways make it a very unlikely route to go.

I did try to connect it to 2 other computers, always not working. As for driver update, has anyone a generic keyboard driver I can try to install? I wasn't able to find any generic Windows keyboard driver. I also did a full format and reinstall of this computer, and it always shows up as "generic usb hub"..

If you are interested in helping me, I am willing to "experiment" on the keyboard and follow your instruction (to the best of my knowledge ), for you it can be some kind of scientific research

I don't think there's a damn thing you can do about it. Needs to go back to them.

oh.. this makes me very sad

anyone with a more cheerful suggestion?

Sometimes there are bugs in the firmware (or to the other side) that could make it lock up (I think that's what happened to me with a WD Passport and a shitty USB 3.0 PCI card, losing all my GoPro videos of my CBR...), but that isn't the norm.
By the steps you took, we probably can rule out a driver issue!
The CMOS battery is there to retain BIOS settings (should be fine for a few years, not just 20 hrs) but normally it shouldn't pose a problem, unless it reset a setting that doesn't play well with the keyboard.
"Gaming" keyboards often use workarounds to bypass the 6KRO limitation instead of doing it right.
Did you or a friend ever mess with the settings in the BIOS?
You could go into BIOS and look for any settings that might affect USB, such as "Enable legacy USB devices" or whatever and change them one by one.
Don't open the keyboard yet, warranty might sort you out. For all you know, it might not be a firmware problem, and even if it is, why would it be exempt from warranty?

Kilbim wrote: oh.. this makes me very sad (((

Don't give up yet!
Muirium is a gigantic, grumpy, Apple loving, Topre-and-IBM snob Scot. What does he know?

I tried with the bios, although not in full lenght. I tried only what I was sure with and what felt could have to do with keyboard and usb. I did enable and disable legacy. Any other stuff that I could try?
As for bios I am running a mobo h78-hd3 with the latest bio. I can do some photos of each BIO page and you could tell me what to try, would this work?

Just a quick question, how should I go about trying this? Does it matter that there is already a keyboard connected via ps2? So I should do edit bios > turn off computer > disconnect ps2 keyboard and connect faulty one > reboot?

One think I remember happening was that sometimes (very rarely) the keyboard would not load untill Windows login was shown, or even there, I had to re-plug it. But it was very rare, nothing out of the ordinary I think.

NKRO is surely I problem, by reading around it's a source for many headaches. These seemed to be solved by a bios update, but in my case it didn't worked (I tried that too). I am a bit worrying about downgrading my bios, as I don't want to end up with a broken mobo too

chzel wrote: Muirium is a gigantic, grumpy, Apple loving, Topre-and-IBM snob Scot. What does he know?

Guilty as charged!

A Realforce would fix all this in a heartbeat. You'd forget all about the other board…

If you mean your motherboard is the Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3, I can't really see how the CMOS battery would run down.
I might take a look at my mobo (Z87X-D3H, should be similar enough) later tonight for possible relative settings.
When you "Save and exit" the PC essentially reboots so no need for an extra one!
Plug in the X8 and the PS/2 one and try some stuff.
Do you remember if you could use the X8 in the BIOS?

Fuck the Topre. An AT with xwhatsits is used to write these lines and it kicks ass. Full NKRO!
89bg5,pmnhtv64.cfr zyx0o (palm on keyboard )

Disclaimer: I have not tried Topre yet so I retain the right to retract the above statement.

Couldn't use the keyboard in the bios.

Have you tried it on a different machine?

yes, I tried 2 different machines..

Muirium wrote: At least we learned those MAX guys are complete clowns. They owe you a new keyboard.

You seem to be right. Here are their answer:

Base on the information, we would guess the keyboard's firmware has crashed, in order to refresh the firmware will require firmware re-write device ($40 include shipping fee), unfortunately that device is currently unavailable (expect it will become available by early August).

and then

There are many factors could cause the damage on keyboard or firmware crash, such as sudden electrical spike.
Unfortunately, keyboard was designed and only work under USB connection, therefore USB-> PS/2 adaptor will not fix the issue, and product warranty is one year from the date of purchased.

Oh yeah, I am sure turning on my computer is an "eletrical spike", yeah right.
Here part of my answer to them

Then this speaks for the build quality of your products on itself. I cannot imagine that something that can get broken just by plugging out and back in can be referred to as "high quality". And as for the "electrical spike", this isn't even the case, I don't think plugging the computer in causes such a spike, since it is not yet powered on. If your keyboard gets damaged then by just turning on the computer, well... If I were you I would refrain from referring to the product as "high-end computer keyboards" and to "acknowledge build-quality as the common foundation for an excellent keyboard".

Crap on them...Clowns indeed...
If you feel there is no sense in pursuing warranty further, you could open the keyboard and post some good clear closeup pics especially of the controller circuit, and hopefully we find something that helps us fix it. Nothing is guaranteed though.
At the very least you will have a donor board for switches and stabilizers and perhaps a plate...

At this point, I'd find a way to connect a moderately safe (for you) but damaging voltage to the USB cord, backward. (Meaning, send 12V at it, backward.) Let the magic smoke out. Then let them try to tell you it's a "firmware crash".

Fuck them if they're going to attempt to dodge legitimate warranty replacement.

They will hide behind the "OMG voltage spike thingy" clause...
They did it already, imagine if something was indeed burned...

chzel wrote: They will hide behind the "OMG voltage spike thingy" clause...
They did it already, imagine if something was indeed burned...

Doing this should only smoke the (already failed) controller though, leaving him no worse off should he decide to revive the keyboard by replacing the controller (which is probably the cheapest way to go, and would actually add features). That's really why I suggested this specific "fix". So long as the switches and matrix are intact, controller swapping should be possible. 12VDC the wrong way could potentially burn out matrix diodes, but probably not. It is highly unlikely to burn any traces or damage any switches. It actually might not be enough to damage anything. (Time for the model railroad transformer?)

BTW, when requesting warranty service, it is generally best to not speculate about the cause of the failure, unless it's something incredibly obvious like a switch binding up. Otherwise you're opening the door to being accused of causing the problem.

So, thank you everybody for the overwhelming support. It was unexpected as I am a "stranger" on this forum..! Great!

So, as for warranty, it's only 12 months, not 24 as I assumed. So in that sense I'm already out. Thinking about it should have been a big signal of shitty quality, which piece of technology only has 12 months nowadays? It means they know something is not right in their builds.

As for opening up: I am all up for it. Even if the product would be in warranty, I would still need to send it to the USA, and I am in the EU. Yes, when doing such a purchase (to the EU from USA, knowing it's hard to ship back) I should have known that it was a risk. But I was saying myself: it's a mechanical keyboard, this means it's extreme good build: it will last at least 7-8 years and could easily last 15, if taken care properly.

To be honest at this point my goal is to try and revive the keyboard. Since there's basically nothing I can do, I don't care if in doing so I might damage it irreversibily: it's already dead at this point, and won't get better unless I do something. Maxkeyboard won't do anything for sure, it's out of warranty and they are out of reach for me.
The only thing I would like NOT to do is hurt myself

So, keep in mind I have never done anything like this, I will need guidance, if you are willing.

I will start by opening up the keyboard tomorrow and post a lot of photos for you to look at, that should be a start.

Thank you

Hey, we're here to help! Go for it! Just make sure the pics are clear and somewhat closeup!

So, here are the photos http://imgur.com/a/igXLh link to img album.
For now only the back and the front part near the usb ports; I haven't removed the keycaps now (although I think they won't reveal anything, you only see the cherry switches there)

Tell me what your elf eyes see

halp?

I think what you need to do is to identify what chipset there is that belong to the keyboard controller, problably the black square in the middle. It looks like it has a Texas Instrument logo. Google the numbers on it and you should find out what chipset it is. Then you need to find a programmer for it. There are quite many options here I believe. But if you have an arduino at hand, problably someone have already made a programmer with an arduino. Problably you need to connect the programmer with four of the pins on the chipset(Vcc, GND, RX, TX). See the documentation for the chipset. and start the programmer. Of course this applies only if you have the firmware at hand.

What I have written is what I have understood from reading about processor programming and I dont have any skills or experince that you can rely on. So take all I said with a grain of salt until someone more experinced and kunning person steps in and saves the day!

Dayum, this is super complicated, I thought somehow it would be easier...

I think I'm just going to throw the keyboard away

Instead of throwing it away, you could probably sell it to someone looking for parts.
What switches do you have, and where are you located?