deskthority

I hesitate to post this but I was cleaning the keyboard and thought I'd take some pictures while the keyboard was apart.

We have here the Zenith ZFA-161-416 that is a portable XT class computer. With a removable keyboard (I don't have the keyboard cable), it had a distinctive pop-up dual floppy mechanism. The keyboard that was included is a variation of the Zenith XT keyboards with a different case so that it could attach to the portable case for transport. This keyboard is from 1984 so it's fairly early. As you can plainly see, the key caps are ABS, unfortunately but the key switches are SKCL green Alps.

Question: Does anyone who has a similar Zenith XT keyboard know if I can use a coiled 5 pin DIN keyboard extender cable as a replacement for the original keyboard cable?

Here are some pics:

Very nice pictures, and a nice board! These old Zenith boards have something IMO. Surprised it's made in Japan - I guess it was actually made by Alps themselves then! It's also one of the older ones I've seen, interesting how it already had ABS caps by that time. I can see the subtle differences in the case and the feet. Never heard of this model before, looks like the Zenith catalog was bigger than I thought!

As long as the connector is the same (Epson used some odd shaped DIN connectors that are hard to get/find) you should be fine. I haven't seen any DIN cables that did any sort of cross-over (like ethernet and serial cables often do).

Wait... What is that space bar switch?

Edit: Is it a White Linear switch that hasn't been documented?!

SKCL Cream or SKCL Grey. They're spacebar switches for old Zeniths.

It's rare to see your keyboard's front & back case are differ to other Heathkit/Zenith Z-150 84key keyboard!(which made in 1984 both)
As I know white logo Zenith Z-150 keyboard are XT and AT compatible.(black logo is XT)
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Zenith_Data ... y_Keyboard
And what color is your switch under the space bar? It's quite unusual.

Pretty sure that is what is referred to as SKCL Cream. All of my Zeniths use this switch for the space bar.

Yeah they're not that unusual really, they're well-documented to be in old Zeniths .

I hadn't seen one before. >.< Mine uses a regular Green SKCL for the spacebar and it's from '86 or so, I think.

Some used a normal switch, some used SKCL Grey, and some use SKCL Cream . The boards aren't rare so they're fairly well-documented. Neither of the spacebar switches are very common outside Zeniths, though.

Super nice, it's got the same wild return key as my ZKB-2 from 1987.

This Zenith XT layout is actually a significant improvement over the IBM XT layout.

Engicoder wrote: This Zenith XT layout is actually a significant improvement over the IBM XT layout.

Yes agreed, it looks more practical and less clustered than the IBM XT, especially on the right hand side which is the biggest drawback for me when using my XT without any modification.

seebart wrote:

Engicoder wrote: This Zenith XT layout is actually a significant improvement over the IBM XT layout.

Yes agreed, it looks more practical and less clustered than the IBM XT, especially on the right hand side which is the biggest drawback for me when using my XT without any modification.

Not to mention it doesn't have those stepped keycaps. I always found that both impractical (just use proper stabilisers ffs) as well as distracting.

Right, I always found stepped keycaps to be a waste of space. What was the point? I don't "get it" to this day. Doesn't look great either. The only practical use could be preventing the user from hitting the cap on the side, on some technically less than perfect switches this might prevent the "stall" on the switch you know what I mean Chyros. But IBM buckling spring does not have this problem IMO. Stepped caps saving out on stabilizers obviously. DUH.

seebart wrote: Right, I always found stepped keycaps to be a waste of space. What was the point? I don't "get it" to this day. Doesn't look great either. The only practical use could be preventing the user from hitting the cap on the side, on some technically less than perfect switches this might prevent the "stall" on the switch you know what I mean Chyros. But IBM buckling spring does not have this problem IMO.

The smaller keys, no, I agree completely. But I'm sure some of the bigger keys like the 3u + key would. Perhaps their reasoning was that it looked more elegant if all keys had the same 1u size topside.

seebart wrote: Right, I always found stepped keycaps to be a waste of space. What was the point? I don't "get it" to this day. Doesn't look great either. The only practical use could be preventing the user from hitting the cap on the side, on some technically less than perfect switches this might prevent the "stall" on the switch you know what I mean Chyros. But IBM buckling spring does not have this problem IMO. Stepped caps saving out on stabilizers obviously. DUH.

ITs so you dont press it by mistake ( or at least thats what people cliam)

Now if they had left control there and kept caps lock out of the way like in unix layout it would not be a problem

andrewjoy wrote: ITs so you dont press it by mistake ( or at least thats what people cliam)

Now if they had left control there and kept caps lock out of the way like in unix layout it would not be a problem

Yeah that makes some sense. IBM used this heavily on the XT and terminal keyboards in Model F series but also with the Model M. It has nothing to do with keyobard size or space that's for sure. My IBM 3104 Display Terminal keyboard has plenty stepped caps in the in any case crazy terminal layout.

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/ibm ... hilit=3104

This keyboard looks like an interesting cross between and IBM XT and IBM AT keyboard. Does anyone know when the IBM AT keyboard was introduced?

I'll check the color of the space bar key switch and take it apart if it's helpful. I may take one of the greens apart too.

snuci wrote: Does anyone know when the IBM AT keyboard was introduced?

http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Model_F ... T_keyboard

The Personal Computer Advanced Technology (PC AT), released in 1984, was the successor to the IBM PC and XT.

terrycherry wrote: It's rare to see your keyboard's front & back case are differ to other Heathkit/Zenith Z-150 84key keyboard!(which made in 1984 both)
As I know white logo Zenith Z-150 keyboard are XT and AT compatible.(black logo is XT)
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Zenith_Data ... y_Keyboard
And what color is your switch under the space bar? It's quite unusual.

Indeed. Never seen this before. A Z-150 but with a squarer case. Layout and internals are identical. Also am author of that article!

Chyros wrote: Some used a normal switch, some used SKCL Grey, and some use SKCL Cream . The boards aren't rare so they're fairly well-documented. Neither of the spacebar switches are very common outside Zeniths, though.

Ah, didnt know some came with SKCL Creams. Will add that to my article! My Z-150/84 Key had a normal SKCL Green underneath the spacebar. Somewhat common in Zeniths, but pretty much no where else. Rare Alps switches for sure. Would do great in my Alps switch tester project...

Chyros wrote: Very nice pictures, and a nice board! These old Zenith boards have something IMO. Surprised it's made in Japan - I guess it was actually made by Alps themselves then! It's also one of the older ones I've seen, interesting how it already had ABS caps by that time. I can see the subtle differences in the case and the feet. Never heard of this model before, looks like the Zenith catalog was bigger than I thought!

And sorry Chyros, I know of your love for Zeniths, but alas my Zenith has been dismantled for its SKCL Greens
At least they now belong in a V60 MTS with LED backlighting! (A project soon to come to light, once I finish it)

At least their common as you say ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Here are some pics of the key switches dismantled. The only difference between the green and cream key switches appears to be the stem colour, naturally, and the internal spring windings.

Here are some pics:

Oh wow, this would mean SKCL Cream was one of the very first Alps CM switches Oo . Is the slider reversible like the one on SKCL Green, too? If so, I suspect they were developed side-by-side. Very interesting.

This should answer that question.

It's funny but when you look at these, they almost look like they are made of "jade" and "bone" respectively.

It's hard to judge from that picture, actually Oo . Is it asymmetric like the later sliders or is it completely the same on both sides?

Sorry, completely the same on both sides. They are both symmetrical.

Cool, thanks! Definitely SKCL Cream were extremely early then.

Just posting the last couple of pics of the components on the PCB board to date the actual board.

Sorry to necro this thread. I've got one of these and I want to use it with my modern computer. Are there any converters that will work? Is it the same as XT, the wiki says the connector is proprietary?