deskthority

This week a very rare bird with very rare switches; Cyan Omnoms!

Hope you enjoy!

I didn't realize they put any Omron switches in their boards, especially cyan ones. This 727 is really unique! I actually forgot how nice the amber Omnoms felt, but these look nice and subdued in comparison. Does the tactile bump still feel as pronounced?

Great review as always.

Invisius wrote: I didn't realize they put any Omron switches in their boards, especially cyan ones. This 727 is really unique! I actually forgot how nice the amber Omnoms felt, but these look nice and subdued in comparison. Does the tactile bump still feel as pronounced?

Great review as always.

Thanks!

No, quite the opposite, these don't feel tactile at all. Pretty much the only tactile feel stems form the impact of the clicker on the switch housing; the key travel itself feels very nearly linear.

Wow, where did you manage to find that?

For me, these early Focus boards are some of the nicest looking boards period. Thanks for doing a review and offering insight on other aspects of them.

And lovely typewriter cameo

alh84001 wrote: Wow, where did you manage to find that?

For me, these early Focus boards are some of the nicest looking boards period. Thanks for doing a review and offering insight on other aspects of them.

And lovely typewriter cameo

I got it off Mattr .

Yeah, these things just look fantastic. Like the FK-555, there were Northgate-branded ones of these too, with the old gold label:



Practically drooling xD . I missed out on the Northgate FK-555 as well as on that gorgeous black FK-2001 that was on a while ago, damn my complete lack of money!!

You shouldn't have let me know these even exist Is this thing closest analogue to kishsaver in Alps land or is there even something more crazy?

alh84001 wrote: You shouldn't have let me know these even exist Is this thing closest analogue to kishsaver in Alps land or is there even something more crazy?

There is the Alpsaver, Seebart's ultimate board. That's SKCC though. Its photo topic recently got revived, fortunately, so I don't even have to search for it xD .



photos-f62/alps-akb-3420-vintage-keyboard-t12200.html

Focus and Northgate share a common ancestry and the actual OEM for these boards is not known yet AFAIK. It'd be really cool to find out though. At some point Focus and Northgate split off into different directions - Northgate went for the build quality and customisation options, while Focus went for all kinds of gizmos (and presumably cheapness ).

I don’t see the relation to the Kishsaver..

If you an Alps board in 60% size, just build one. Unlike Model F switches (where you need to design a capsense PCB, cut and bend custom steel plates, and do some work getting the electronics working, you can easily put Alps into whatever shape keyboard you prefer.

If you want a working Alps (or Omron) 60% board from the 80s / early 90s, pull one from a laptop.

jacobolus wrote: I don’t see the relation to the Kishsaver..
If you want a working Alps (or Omron) 60% board from the 80s / early 90s, pull one from a laptop.

But that's kind of the point. It's a pretty early vintage, rare, 60%, all metal keyboard. In that, kind of spiritual, sense, I see the similarity.

Now, technically, it doesn't have SKCM/L (and I believe pin orientation would forbid putting them in), but that's a whole different can of potatoes. But that's why 5140 is there

The cookie monster lives!

I think I may like how these lack the tactility and mainly just click while being smooth. They sound really nice in the demo. Too bad they seem kind of flaky.

In all fairness they don't seem to be anywhere near as unreliable as the amber ones. Ever since I did that Chicony interview another 12 or so switches on the board have died for seemingly no reason xD . I haven't even used it in the meantime!

That Focus FK-727 is sweet, forget the goddamn Omrons! Omron B3G-S series are like a worse case Alps SKCM switch by design, manage to get some in good condition by chance and they feel fine. Since I recently got my second amber Omron B3G-S series keyboard in an NTC KB-6151 thats in much better shape are in than my Wang 725-7951 the direct comparison is staggering. And that Focus FK-727 looks to be in good shape, certainly a better keyboard than any Chicony. I doubt there is any difference in build quality between amber and cyan Omron B3G-S which are both second generation B3G-S series. It would be great to have a comparison of the first and second gerneration B3G.

wiki/Omron_B3G-S_series

seebart wrote: That Focus FK-727 is sweet, forget the goddamn Omrons! Omron B3G-S series are like a worse case Alps SKCM switch by design, manage to get some in good condition by chance and they feel fine. Since I recently got my second amber Omron B3G-S series keyboard in an NTC KB-6151 thats in much better shape are in than my Wang 725-7951 the direct comparison is staggering. And that Focus FK-727 looks to be in good shape, certainly a better keyboard than any Chicony. I doubt there is any difference in build quality between amber and cyan Omron B3G-S which are both second generation B3G-S series. It would be great to have a comparison of the first and second gerneration B3G.

wiki/Omron_B3G-S_series

Yeah, it's in outstanding condition, apparently it spend ages on a shelf not being used, and it's clean as fuck, so this is a lovely specimen indeed. A lovely specimen of a lovely keyboard, in fact .

There are small differences between the cyan and amber ones. The click leaves on the ambers are shiny for example, whereas the cyan ones are matte. I don't think I've seen amber omron boards from this era, nor have I ever seen cyan omrons from the amber omron age, so I'm not sure they ran concurrently for a significant amount of time. I think the cyans were phased out around the time the amber ones hit the market. Regardless, I can guarantee you they don't feel anything alike xD .

I've never seen a B3G board, I don't even know what they look like Oo . But I agree, it would make an interesting comparison .

What's the production date on that Focus 727 of yours again? It must be older than either of mine. In fact I've never seen a B3G board either.

seebart wrote: What's the production date on that Focus 727 of yours again? It must be older than either of mine. In fact I've never seen a B3G board either.

I've had trouble dating it for certain, but one of the chips suggests 1988 iirc.

Chyros wrote: There are small differences between the cyan and amber ones. The click leaves on the ambers are shiny for example, whereas the cyan ones are matte.

Yes, that is what I read also more than once.

Chyros wrote: I don't think I've seen amber omron boards from this era, nor have I ever seen cyan omrons from the amber omron age, so I'm not sure they ran concurrently for a significant amount of time. I think the cyans were phased out around the time the amber ones hit the market.

No, that's speculation IMO. Especially if all we have is the keyboard dates, there is nothing in our wiki on when what series B3G-S was produced which doesn't really mean anything either. If anyone can read this...

http://www.fa.omron.co.jp/view/closed/s ... eyword=B3G

The blue and amber Omrons were definitely concurrent. They were copying the colors from blue/amber Alps switches, so that gives you an idea about their starting timeframe.

The contact design in all the Omron B3G-S switches just seems to be pretty bad. If you hold a multimeter in continuity tester mode across the contacts of any Omron switch and try pressing the switches, you’ll find they’re super chattery and unreliable. If you take one apart and put it back together, it sometimes turns out even worse. I suspect you need some very good debounce routine in your keyboard firmware to make them functional.

jacobolus wrote: The blue and amber Omrons were definitely concurrent. They were copying the colors from blue/amber Alps switches, so that gives you an idea about their starting timeframe.

Both are the same series with some slight differenes, that's really all the information we have.

jacobolus wrote: The contact design in all the Omron B3G-S switches just seems to be pretty bad. If you hold a multimeter in continuity tester mode across the contacts of any Omron switch and try pressing the switches, you’ll find they’re super chattery and unreliable. If you take one apart and put it back together, it sometimes turns out even worse. I suspect you need some very good debounce routine in your keyboard firmware to make them functional.

Agreed, since the cyan ones are super rare it's going to be quite difficult to validate. The "Cyan Omron B3G-S series switches in a Focus FK-555" picture in our wiki is from Sandy, one of the very few examples of these I have seen in three years.

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/keyboard.html

wiki/File:Focus_FK-555_--_Omron_switches.jpg

Compared to their later keyboards, the Focus 727 and 747 seem very.... plane.

UnFocused wrote: Compared to their later keyboards, the Focus 727 and 747 seem very.... plane.

Focus (and Northgate) hadn't quite gotten their keyboard identity at this point yet. It lacks the gizmos you'd find later on other Focus boards. Still, I think it looks exceptionally elegant, personally .

Chyros wrote:

UnFocused wrote: Compared to their later keyboards, the Focus 727 and 747 seem very.... plane.

Focus (and Northgate) hadn't quite gotten their keyboard identity at this point yet. It lacks the gizmos you'd find later on other Focus boards. Still, I think it looks exceptionally elegant, personally .

I was making a very bad pun there. I guess it didn't fly.

UnFocused wrote:

Chyros wrote:

UnFocused wrote: Compared to their later keyboards, the Focus 727 and 747 seem very.... plane.

Focus (and Northgate) hadn't quite gotten their keyboard identity at this point yet. It lacks the gizmos you'd find later on other Focus boards. Still, I think it looks exceptionally elegant, personally .

I was making a very bad pun there. I guess it didn't fly.

I still don't get it :p . English is not my first language anyway xD .

Off-topic, but I am curious, what is your first language then?

I'm Dutch .

...what?!? I never would have guessed that. I thought you were English...

I don't want to ruin the pun but it's worth getting to.

Chyros wrote: I'm Dutch .

webwit might be alarmed now! Alert the duck.

I think he knows xD .

Oh I'm sure he's got other things to think about, but in terms of swearing I think the UK is the better choice for you.

Chyros wrote: I'm Dutch .

Ah, cool! From watching your videos I wouldn't have guessed myself either.