deskthority

Anyone know about the early history of Tipro? A keyboard's been found with Tipro branding and non-MX-compatible Tipro-branded switches, dated 1988-89, model number T141A. Curiously the case is either Cherry-manufactured or so similar it even fools Photekq, but the layout's strange.

Reddit post - original Reddit post - Imgur gallery

Note the layout - highlights: 1u Alts; 8u spacebar; 1.5u key to left of right Shift; Print Screen on *. I think right Shift is an unusual width too.

The sliders don't seem wide enough for MX and I can't find anything that exactly matches the shape in the wiki. Siemens or RAFI look quite close in terms of slider shape - leaving aside the mount, of course!

Plate and PCB. I'll leave those with wider experience to comment on the stabilisers - I can see they're Cherry-like, but I don't know how common that is. The stabilised keys have the switches turned through 90 degrees.

(There are several more pictures than I've linked here. Thanks to cyberovca on Reddit for allowing me to post these here.)

Given 1988-89 is still just about in the Communist era, I wonder if this might be how Tipro began, before they invented the modular system. Maybe they were a startup in the Tito era, making homebrew keyboards and other electronics for the Yugoslavian market, perhaps slightly influenced by their near neighbours in Germany... But of course, this is only speculation, and if anyone knows about Tipro's early history we'll be fascinated to hear about it!
(By the way, this probably puts Tipro's founding date earlier than what the wiki currently has.)

You can tell the keyboard is Communist -- those red LEDs are a dead giveaway.

Owner of the keyboard in question and a new user. I can provide additional information or pictures (if asked or needed).

It's always cool when someone finds something we didn't know existed.

You know what... #DTA7

This is another cool find.

ohaimark wrote: You can tell the keyboard is Communist -- those red LEDs are a dead giveaway.

Such a pity blue and white LEDs weren't invented then - it'd be quite a good gimmick to have LEDs suited to whichever republic the keyboard was going to. Bosnia-Herzegovina, all-red; Croatia, red-white-blue; Macedonia, all-red again or red-yellow-red; Montenegro or Serbia, blue-white-red; Slovenia, white-blue-red.

Welcome to DT, Cyberovca! Of course now someone will want you to desolder a switch and take it apart... gotta earn that Wingnut!

The case is stamped "Dez" for Dezember. Unless Slovenia was German-speaking when this was made, that's a Cherry date stamp, and thus this would be a real Cherry case.

I don't know why they used a Cherry case. The serial number of the keyboard is 41, which means that they were produced in limited quantities. Maybe for some local companies or as a gift for workers of Tipro?

Citrojohn thank you for the welcome.

I have never heard of or seen anything like that before,

but I am happy Tipro replaced their own switches with Cherry MX
and Cherry cases with their own modular ones

When were Yugoslav-layout Cherry keyboards (that is, three-letter code xxY) made? I have a speculative theory about how this board came about, but if Y-layout boards were available too early it torpedoes it...

(edit: or Yugoslav-layout Cherry keyboards from before layout codes were introduced.)

kbdfr wrote: I have never heard of or seen anything like that before,

but I am happy Tipro replaced their own switches with Cherry MX
and Cherry cases with their own modular ones

Spoiler:

…which made my daily driver possible:

I currently have three questions. First, what is that monstrosity? Second, how much did you spend to initially get it? Third, where do I get one?

paecific.jr wrote: I currently have three questions. First, what is that monstrosity? Second, how much did you spend to initially get it? Third, where do I get one?

That's three Tipro keyboards joined together with Tipro's internal connector (their "killer feature"): a staggered QWERTY unit in the middle and a 64-key matrix unit on each end. For initial cost I'll have to let kbdfr tell you, but kbdfr sold me a staggered QWERTY and two 32-key units for somewhere around 90€. (I bought some other things too, so I can't be exact. ) If you don't need the stagger, used 16x8 matrix Tipros are going quite cheaply at the moment. I think the 64-key units are rarer.
Have a search on Ebay for secondhand ones. DigiPOS keyboards are rebadged Tipros, and Cherry rebadged a few as RC80 and RC128. New, I suspect they're very expensive, and Tipro may well have a MOQ. kbdfr and Wodan have sold Tipros on here before.

Has anyone actually tried asking Tipro about these switches? It might be preferable for a Slovenian to attempt it in Slovenian first. The company is still around and they may just remember something about it still.

IIRC Cyberovca planned to, and I think he's Slovenian - don't know if anything came of it.

Just so it comes up in Spy again: When were Yugoslav-layout Cherry keyboards made? (I don't mean the SL layout that seems to be used for several formerly-Yugoslav countries, but the earlier Y layout or any Yugoslav-layout keyboard from before Cherry started using layout codes.)

I wonder if you could swap Cherry MX into this board and vice versa Tipro switches into any MX type board. Looks compatible to me.

Mattr567 wrote: I wonder if you could swap Cherry MX into this board and vice versa Tipro switches into any MX type board. Looks compatible to me.

If my theory's right the switches might well be MX-compatible, but there may not be many of them around.

citrojohn wrote:

Mattr567 wrote: I wonder if you could swap Cherry MX into this board and vice versa Tipro switches into any MX type board. Looks compatible to me.

If my theory's right the switches might well be MX-compatible, but there may not be many of them around.

Incoming Tipro 60%

Mattr567 wrote: Incoming Tipro 60%

It's been done - albeit with Cherry MX instead of home-grown switches

I have an idea for how this curiosity came about - but it's largely unsupported by direct evidence, so I'm inserting a

SPECULATION WARNING! SPECULATION WARNING!

I got the idea when I came across the Cherry RC series. For those who haven't met them, they are Tipro KMX keyboards sold by Cherry's American branch - the RC128 is the standard 16x8 Tipro, the RC80 a 10x8 layout. They were sold in America around 2006, which is approximately when Cherry were switching to the G86 series for their POS boards. (The manual for the G86-63400 is dated 2006 too.) Given the timing I wonder if some American customers objected to the G86 line and wanted to use their existing (custom-made, expensive?) MX caps - so Cherry contracted Tipro to produce the MX POS keyboards they didn't want to make themselves.

This reminded me of an arrangement that was quite common in automotive production. Since the examples are off-topic, I've put them in a spoiler -
- to summarise, established manufacturers who couldn't get into closed markets would enter joint ventures with local producers. They contributed designs (not always the most up-to-date) and knowledge, in the hope of getting access to the market and the possibility of buying the operation when the political wind changed; and if it didn't work out, they might at least get an amicable link with a low-wage region, for later production.

So I wonder if Cherry might have assisted Tipro when it started, by providing the 1000 case and some expertise behind the scenes, in the hope of ending up with access to the Yugoslav market and a new factory with cheap labour. Looking at it from this point of view, some of the design decisions are more logical. In 1988 Cherry were just about to release the 3000 case, so they may have had some 1000 tooling they didn't need, and they would have a more up-to-date model to sell if the Yugoslav-made 1000s escaped from their home country. But Cherry might well have been cautious about supplying MX switches, fearing the possibility of copying - so Tipro would have had to formulate their own switches. (As a parenthesis - I'd suppose there would be some Cherry influence in the switches too, perhaps a similar design to MX without the gold crosspoint, or even elements from Cherry's earlier switches.)

When Slovenia left Yugoslavia, just like Renault Cherry would have been left with a shrunken market. If Tipro had conceived their modular system at that point, they may have preferred going it alone to being absorbed by Cherry. Perhaps they had an amicable divorce, with a friendly link remaining, so ~15 years later when Cherry wanted some matrix boards they were able to get them from Tipro.

There's not much direct evidence for this:

• The fact the case is practically identical to Cherry's 1000 suggests some Cherry involvement (barring a very good copy).
• The earliest Yugoslav-layout Cherry board that's been found was from 1991, in the middle of the Slovenian independence efforts. However, that is the only Y-layout board with a date code that photekq knows about, so it's of limited value as evidence. (A Y-layout keyboard from before Slovenian independence would damage the hypothesis of Cherry being unable to access the Yugoslavian market.)

citrojohn wrote: IIRC Cyberovca planned to, and I think he's Slovenian - don't know if anything came of it.

Sorry, I wasn't here the past month or two (studying and work). Yes, I did write to them and they basically "fucked me off".

"Spoštovani, hvala za vaš mail. Kakšnih posebnih informacij o tej tipkovnici nimamo - gre za tipkovnico s PS/2 priklopom,
podpore zanjo pa že kar nekaj časa nimamo več."

Translation goes something like this: "Dear ..., thank you for your e-mail. We don't have any specific information about this keyboard - it's a keyboard with PS/2 connection and we don't support it anymore."

I replied to their e-mail with: It's not PS/2 but DIN and explained that I'm gathering information for Deskthority.net. Well, they didn't reply back.

I actually had more luck — they have some sample keyboards still somewhere. No great details thus far though.

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: I actually had more luck — they have some sample keyboards still somewhere. No great details thus far though.

Did you write to them or what?

Yes. Switch pictures here: photos-f62/tipro-switches-t17657.html

I am always too hasty — I should have got a white background photo of the MX-type one before opening it, as it broke!

It is indeed gold crosspoint, but a different take on the design, and tactile. It has the sliding collar but, like MX White (Cherry's original design) it does not click.

BTW, these switches just about take SMK J-M0404 series keycaps (it's a tight fit). Futaba MD/ML/MR keycaps however don't quite fit. The fact that their other switches are copies of SMK J-M0404 fits in with this.

I know this is a necro but still wanted to add my 2 cents. Tipro has been around since the early 1980s. They produced a very nice keyboard replacement for the ZX Spectrum called Ines. They also produced keyboards for some of the domestically produces computers.