deskthority

Hi everyone,

We as CM are always very busy with new ideas and checking market feedback so we would really appreciate you guys' feedback on the following. We are thinking about a combo of keyboard, mouse and headset, all 3 peripherals in 1 set.

Would you be interested in a combo that would have all 3 products in 1 matching set/box/packaging? Or would you prefer to buy all separated.

ID idea/design
- clean, simple, design outlook like Bang & Olufsen (example)
- high end elegant and matching set (keyboard, mouse & headset)

Possible Features:
- Portable yes/no?
- Detachable yes/no?
- Foldable keyboard, headset or even mouse yes/no?
- Dustproof yes/no?
- Waterproof yes/no?
- Shockproof yes/no?
- Light weight yes/no?
- Ergonomic yes/no (important? If so any example already in the market what you find as ergonomic and good!?
- Wired or Wireless yes/no?
- Mechanical (if so what switch?) or Topre as our NovaTouch? (or membrane but I think I know the answer on membrane, haha) yes/no?
- Backlight yes/no?
- Classical / high quality carry box yes/no?

And for what kind of use would you think this is most usefull? As a mobile user on the go, just a nice high end set for at home, or for a gamer going to LANs and such, or as a exclusive office set?

Let me know your feedback guys! It will as always be highly appreciated!

Regards,
Bram

Foldable mouse!

Actually, I'd say some of those options would only work on a membrane (DT disapproved) keyboard. Folding mechanicals are a sight to be believed:


http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8 ... t6304.html

the only reason for a kit like that would be portability I guess. so make it compact, shock proof and with a smart way to fold wires.

that being said, I would never buy such a thing

I think it would be kind of interesting for some people to have a keyboard with integrated USB 3.0 Hub and a sound card. If you'd use a laptop with the keyboard you'd only have to connect one USB plug to your laptop. The mouse could have two changeable USB cords: a long one for normal use and a short one to use it in combination with the keyboard.

derp

Mmm… trackball. Now there's a thought. We want. In fact, we even imagined when you showed some spherical sketches…

matt3o wrote:the only reason for a kit like that would be portability I guess. so make it compact, shock proof and with a smart way to fold wires.

that being said, I would never buy such a thing

Alright, then my question of course is: why not and what would make it so that you would buy it?

Muirium wrote:Mmm… trackball. Now there's a thought. We want. In fact, we even imagined when you showed some spherical sketches…

Haha I know, those were the teasers for the Mizar/Alcor :$

Muirium wrote:Foldable mouse!

Actually, I'd say some of those options would only work on a membrane (DT disapproved) keyboard. Folding mechanicals are a sight to be believed:

http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8 ... t6304.html

True foldable and such would all be much easier with membrane, but that is anything but 'high end' .. How would you see that foldable mouse you put the explanation mark at ?

davkol wrote:First of all, such kits usually sort of assume that one size fits all. That's obviously flawed.

However, I'm sort of making my own portable combo. The idea is basically the ErgoDox, a small mouse pad, a trackball (could be replaced by a mouse in theory), Logitech C920 and hopefully closed over-ear sennheisers (or at least IEMs) in a case similar to the Beyerdynamic DT-bag.

Why the ErgoDox? It's split, thus fits in a relatively small case that fits in my backpack (a wide one wouldn't, although I have rather big backpacks, Wenger Maxxum and Crumpler The Dark Side); thanks to being split and symmetrical, it can work as a gaming keypad (like the Belkin/Razer Nostromo). Moreover, it has a hackable firmware, of course, although I'm not sure, whether it wouldn't be a bit of an issue in competitive gaming environment. Anyway, this is something that was discussed in the old thread about a potential CM Storm ergonomic keyboard in your subforum at Geekhack.

I prefer a trackball, because it doesn't have to be moved around, hence I can use it even in my lap, while on a bus. Obviously, it wouldn't fit the majority of gamers. For a mouse, please, make an ambidextrous xornet/spawn, that's it.

I'm not sure, if you guys can make a decent headset. I mean, you're basically a gaming company and let's be honest, gaming companies shouldn't be trusted, when it comes to audio. Anyway, my two favorite portable headphones of all time have been Sennheiser HD 202 and HD 25 (non-SP, HD 25-13 actually), because

• HD202s have cans detachable from the headband (I've even attempted to make a behind-the-head headband) and are rock-solid except for the cable (it'd better be user-replaceable);
• HD25s are extremely compact, well-built, every part is easily replaceable and the two-part headband rocks.

Both are closed, which is very helpful outside the peace and quiet of my room. Unfortunately, neither fits in the case with an ergodox. I got fake/OEM IE80s because of that (and because I can wear them in bed more comfortably), and oh boy, they have an excellent sound stage. I can imagine this would be a viable option even for gaming (if they didn't have that much bass at the cost of clarity).

BTW I use my ergodox on my knees/lap. It isn't super stable (velcro would help), but it's great otherwise. Maybe an 84key keyboard (something along the lines of either TypeMatrix 2030, TECK, or at the very least Noppoo Choc Mini) would solve this stability thing, wouldn't have issues with connecting the halves and could be easier to use for games that require tons of keys without remapping.

True ergonomic was indeed discussed before on geekhack too... But I want to reopen that discussion here on DT as one of the possible features for this combo set.

What was your purpose for a combo set like this? Because of traveling to school or office? Or because of LAN events... Can you give a insight into your reasoning behind this combo

derp

CM Bram wrote:Would you be interested in a combo that would have all 3 products in 1 matching set/box/packaging? Or would you prefer to buy all separated.

I myself am very picky about my stuff, so I prefer to buy things separate so that I don't have to compromise on features, ergonomics, design and quality.

If you sell them in a pack, I think that they should have a quality that is common in-between them. Some suggestions:
- Matching design
- Passthrough for the headset and mouse through the keyboard. But please put the headset passthrough on the left or the back and the mouse passthrough on the back. Don't ever put any ports on the right as they would be in the way for the mouse.
- Wireless with common transceiver.

Dustproof: People who are really picky use dust covers. Some years ago, Sony made a desktop PC where the low-profile keyboard had a dust cover that folded forwards to become a wrist rest - I would like to see that feature again, but I am afraid that it could be patented.

Waterproof: Why not? As long as it does not interfere with function, I think that some water-proofing should be a consideration when engineering peripherals.
There is a common misbelief that you would be supposed to wash keyboards in the dishwashing machine, or under the tap - only because it had worked for some people with their rubber-dome keyboards. You also see a new "I spilled <drink> into my keyboard" thread every week in some forums.
Please do add drainage holes in the bottom of mechanical keyboards so that any spilled liquid could run out of and not pool inside the case.

Light weight: People seem to want heavy desktop keyboards, but I think that weight is of little concern if the rubber feet are really good.

Ergonomic: The best ergonomic feature is to use light-weight tactile mechanical keys that you don't have to bottom out - you already have that with Cherry MX blue and brown switches.
The next would be to have the keyboard truly split in two, so that there can be hand-separation and angling. Then comes tenting the halves. I think that having a columnar layout would be quite far down on the list. Also consider that keyboard tilt should be adjustable. Some keyboards tilt too much. Some say that negative tilt is even better than no tilt.
While some people would like a clone of the MS "Natural" keyboard with Cherry MX switches, I think that one is inferior to any keyboard where the two keyboard halves are separate: because the MS keyboard is not adjustable it is fitted only for some ideal person, and we are all different.
The best of the ordinary split keyboards out there are Goldtouch's and the Kinesis Freestyle (not contoured). I am looking forward to seeing Matias Ergo Pro, but it will not be released until August.

Wired or Wireless: Gamers seem to want the shortest response time possible, and that means high-speed USB. I don't need a wireless desktop keyboard, but I would not mind a wireless mouse or headset/headphone. I too often get my headphone cable tangled in stuff, and I would not mind being able to walk short distances away from my desk with it on.
Bluetooth for tablets, because even many Windows tablets have only one USB port, which is silly.

Mechanical: Cherry MX Clear. And release it in ISO!

CM Bram wrote:

matt3o wrote:the only reason for a kit like that would be portability I guess. so make it compact, shock proof and with a smart way to fold wires.

that being said, I would never buy such a thing

Alright, then my question of course is: why not and what would make it so that you would buy it?

because I like to cherry pick each components and make my own kit. apart from that I don't need to carry my peripherals around.

I would personally plunk down a big wad of cash for a dustproof / waterproof / shockproof mechanical keyboard.

Secondary priorities would be portability and foldability.

I'd love to have an apple-like design setup, for gaming. (I think you know what I mean with apple-like).
I feel that gamers are almost forced in using hardware with to much multicolour LED's and cheesy logo's (Roccat, Razer, ...).

If you can make a HQ headset (plz no surround gimmick bullshit), nice mouse and a keyboard with topre switches in a HQ design* I would pay top dolla. (but everyone in this community would pay allot for what they think they really want).

*The kind of design that looks good on a wooden desk.

I don't see a point in making hardware like this foldable, lightweight and portable. Surely it would be moved once in a while bit who moves his office equipment every day?

Shockproof? No. But waterproof and rustproof is nice to have I guess.



PS: Have you guys taught about making a HHKB clone yet?

Findecanor wrote:

CM Bram wrote:Would you be interested in a combo that would have all 3 products in 1 matching set/box/packaging? Or would you prefer to buy all separated.

I myself am very picky about my stuff, so I prefer to buy things separate so that I don't have to compromise on features, ergonomics, design and quality.

If you sell them in a pack, I think that they should have a quality that is common in-between them. Some suggestions:
- Matching design
- Passthrough for the headset and mouse through the keyboard. But please put the headset passthrough on the left or the back and the mouse passthrough on the back. Don't ever put any ports on the right as they would be in the way for the mouse.
- Wireless with common transceiver.

Dustproof: People who are really picky use dust covers. Some years ago, Sony made a desktop PC where the low-profile keyboard had a dust cover that folded forwards to become a wrist rest - I would like to see that feature again, but I am afraid that it could be patented.

Waterproof: Why not? As long as it does not interfere with function, I think that some water-proofing should be a consideration when engineering peripherals.
There is a common misbelief that you would be supposed to wash keyboards in the dishwashing machine, or under the tap - only because it had worked for some people with their rubber-dome keyboards. You also see a new "I spilled <drink> into my keyboard" thread every week in some forums.
Please do add drainage holes in the bottom of mechanical keyboards so that any spilled liquid could run out of and not pool inside the case.

Light weight: People seem to want heavy desktop keyboards, but I think that weight is of little concern if the rubber feet are really good.

Ergonomic: The best ergonomic feature is to use light-weight tactile mechanical keys that you don't have to bottom out - you already have that with Cherry MX blue and brown switches.
The next would be to have the keyboard truly split in two, so that there can be hand-separation and angling. Then comes tenting the halves. I think that having a columnar layout would be quite far down on the list. Also consider that keyboard tilt should be adjustable. Some keyboards tilt too much. Some say that negative tilt is even better than no tilt.
While some people would like a clone of the MS "Natural" keyboard with Cherry MX switches, I think that one is inferior to any keyboard where the two keyboard halves are separate: because the MS keyboard is not adjustable it is fitted only for some ideal person, and we are all different.
The best of the ordinary split keyboards out there are Goldtouch's and the Kinesis Freestyle (not contoured). I am looking forward to seeing Matias Ergo Pro, but it will not be released until August.

Wired or Wireless: Gamers seem to want the shortest response time possible, and that means high-speed USB. I don't need a wireless desktop keyboard, but I would not mind a wireless mouse or headset/headphone. I too often get my headphone cable tangled in stuff, and I would not mind being able to walk short distances away from my desk with it on.
Bluetooth for tablets, because even many Windows tablets have only one USB port, which is silly.

Mechanical: Cherry MX Clear. And release it in ISO!

Alright thanks for the feedback there! Very nice!
And what you mention in the beginning we indeed are aiming at a matching set in looks, because otherwise it would not really be a 'set' .

Some questions for you:
- You mention the sony keyboard with the foldable wristrest/dustcover... Was that a mechanical and do you happen the know the model nr? Why do you like it so much? Because of the fact it is very very innovative and usable in 2 ways?

- Good feedback on ergonomics... How much degree would be the ideal amount of tilt? (But that might be personal prefference)? What do you find ergonomic? Splitable or angle and wrist rest?

- Can I also ask you if you would be interested for the entire pack to come in some kind of cool packaging? As a flight case? Suitcase? Backpack or would this be a waste of resources?

Thanks and let me know !!!

matt3o wrote: because I like to cherry pick each components and make my own kit. apart from that I don't need to carry my peripherals around.

Alright! Thanks, also good feedback..... ! But what about not carrying with you? Then still the prefference to pick all the individual peripherals?

REVENGE wrote:I would personally plunk down a big wad of cash for a dustproof / waterproof / shockproof mechanical keyboard.

Secondary priorities would be portability and foldability.

Cool, cool! Dustproof, waterproof and schokproof mechanical keyboard but what about the the looks and other specs of this possible keyboard? Does it need to be ergonomic? If so, any example of what you find ergonomic?

And fodable you would want because you want to possibly take it with you to work/school?

trax wrote:I'd love to have an apple-like design setup, for gaming. (I think you know what I mean with apple-like).
I feel that gamers are almost forced in using hardware with to much multicolour LED's and cheesy logo's (Roccat, Razer, ...).

If you can make a HQ headset (plz no surround gimmick bullshit), nice mouse and a keyboard with topre switches in a HQ design* I would pay top dolla. (but everyone in this community would pay allot for what they think they really want).

*The kind of design that looks good on a wooden desk.

I don't see a point in making hardware like this foldable, lightweight and portable. Surely it would be moved once in a while bit who moves his office equipment every day?

Shockproof? No. But waterproof and rustproof is nice to have I guess.

PS: Have you guys taught about making a HHKB clone yet?

I think with apple-like you mean clean looking, stylish (minimalistic brushed aluminium) right? Would you however still like to see LEDs or not? If so what color?

And you would prefer Topre? Not a cherry mechanical switch?

Very good point on the portability specs of this. So you do not see this set as a matching set that you will take with you to events, work, school?

davkol wrote:I bring it with me to school, because

1. I spend almost all day there and I want to feel comfortable (those headphones are for isolation from noisier fellow students);
2. when I'm transcribing a lecture or coding, mild RSI symptoms kick in.

Particular reasons, why I don't simply use my laptop or a workstation in a lab?

• Those shared OEM mice and keyboards are disgusting (almost in the /r/techsupportgore way).
• Desks are too high to maintain a proper posture.
• My fingers start to hurt a bit, when typing on a low-profile plate-mounted keyboard (Apple Aluminium in the lab, some thinkpad keyboards, almost any cheap POS (which doesn't stand for point of sale here)) and using a trackpoint a lot or clicking on mouse.

Also, I used to play multiplayer games (such as jump'n'bump) on an external keyboard with my friends in high school.

I'd like to use that setup for some RTS play on weekends, when I hang around my relatives' place.

Alright thanks for the reply ! Good stuff that you would see the point of the portability...



Then some questions to all
I mention ergonomic and you guys also but what would you concider as ergonomic? The MS Natural? Or something like a Matias Ergo Pro that is splitable into 2? Or possibly even something like a Quick Fire Rapid with a very good wrist rest and with a good adjustable feet at the bottom side?

And how about the carrying case I mentioned? Would you see the portability as a plus in this? If so how? Sort of flight case, or suitcase or backpack or anything else?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!

I think somethink like a QFR with good wrist rest and feed adjustment would be your best bet if you want to target more than a niche.

CM Bram wrote: I think with apple-like you mean clean looking, stylish (minimalistic brushed aluminium) right? Would you however still like to see LEDs or not? If so what color?

And you would prefer Topre? Not a cherry mechanical switch?

Very good point on the portability specs of this. So you do not see this set as a matching set that you will take with you to events, work, school?


Then some questions to all
I mention ergonomic and you guys also but what would you concider as ergonomic? The MS Natural? Or something like a Matias Ergo Pro that is splitable into 2? Or possibly even something like a Quick Fire Rapid with a very good wrist rest and with a good adjustable feet at the bottom side?

And how about the carrying case I mentioned? Would you see the portability as a plus in this? If so how? Sort of flight case, or suitcase or backpack or anything else?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!

Yes thats what I was looking for: minimalist & stylish.
I've never seen the point of LEDs for keyboard, mouse or headset. You're supposed to look at your monitor, not your hands.

I move around a lot (uni, 2 homes) I usually only take my HHKB and headphones, I guess I would take my mouse if it was wireless. I rather use a small form factor keyboard over a big "portable" keyboard or headphones cause all these "portable" peripherals have some sort of folding mechanism I don't trust (its the first think that breaks).

As for a carrying case, I guess its just not my thing. I already have my laptop bag where I put everything in. It would however be very cool to have some way to combine the accessories into 1 whole. Like attaching the mouse to the keyboard with magic magnets.

I prefer topre switches over cherry switches, they just feel so nice :] (But thats just me, you should do both).

For me a small form-factor layout is ergonomic enough.

CM Bram wrote:- You mention the sony keyboard with the foldable wristrest/dustcover... Was that a mechanical and do you happen the know the model nr?

No. I think that it was a flat keyboard with scissor switches.

CM Bram wrote:How much degree would be the ideal amount of tilt? (But that might be personal prefference)? What do you find ergonomic? Splitable or angle and wrist rest?

People are still debating whether wrist rest are good or bad.
I think that hand separation and being able to adjust your keyboard and posture are the most important.

Just a heads-up; if you want to go for the B&O look, don't do backlight. At most you could do some simple white backlight through thin lettering, kinda like what apple does.

I think wireless is probably the best option from a marketing POV, since those who are willing to pay a premium for clean design often prefer little to no cabling cluttering up. So if you go wired, make sure to put some effort into elegant cable management.

I think it'd be a nice idea to do sort of an "office gamer" set; B&O design style with specs that can handle gaming(i.e. not 2kro, no 125hz mice).

Offer it as a bundle, as that implies the buyer saves a bit of money and gets a matching set with little effort involved.
Don't make the packaging too fancy, putting it in a fancy briefcase or something just adds a silly level of extra cost. Clean, understated packaging is probably more suited if you want to target the same market as B&O.
Portability would probably appeal to that market, but I would imagine that making it portable would either require too much compromise and /or added cost.


I don't think water- and shockproofing is all that important.

derp