Need help to transition from Linux/Windows to Mac OS

cookie · 01 Mar 2016, 15:55

Hey folks,

I am just at my new job and I have a quite troublesome transition from a Linux system to Mac OS.
Currently my HHKB pro1 is disassambled and awaiting a new paintjob. But I already realize that it will be a massive pain to work with the layout as it is now.

I am used to US-International layout on linux and windows systems and I'd like to ask you if there is a way to adapt the shortkeys the way I am used to them. I have trouble to understand the need of cmd, alt, ctrl, fn

I've seen this page here: http://www.maceinsteiger.de/mac-os-shortcuts/ but I don't like the shortcuts.

I'd appreciate any help from HHKB Mac OS users!

Cheers

Khers · 01 Mar 2016, 16:00

I use the standard US-layout on my macs and add whatever functionality that I don't have there using Karabiner. What exactly is it that you have an issue with?

andrewjoy · 01 Mar 2016, 16:02

Command is control for some things , for example cmd + c is copy and so on but there is also control for some things too ( mostly command line apps).

Option is Alt.

Fn is for the F1 - F12 keys, apple in there infinite wisdom have now the spotlight volume up and so on keys default over the F keys.

You can assign any keys to option and command , jut go to settings , you don't need admin access.

You will have fun on mac , you never know what software or setting apple will break next.

Muirium · 01 Mar 2016, 16:05

Well, you can always move them around:

Mac modifier keys are quite simple really. Think of them this way:

Command is the main one. Command + C for copy etc. The Mac introduced those universal shortcuts back in 1984, and the PC borrowed them later, bumping them onto the Control key.
Option is a lot like Alt. Use Option + Left to move the cursor back a word, for instance. It's also commonly used for combos like Command+Option+H for hide all background windows.
Control is much less important on the Mac. Most of its daily functions are on Command instead. It gets some use as a third key to throw into complex combos, and the Terminal still uses it too.
Fn… effin ignore it! Mac keyboards have a function layer too. Don't let it confuse you. Use your HHKB as you're used to: its Fn key is invisible to the computer, it controls the keyboard alone.

Best tip of all: click on a menu and have a look at the commands. You see those symbols? Yeah, the Mac is rich with keyboard shortcuts all right! Whenever in doubt, take a look around. It's good at showing you.

cookie · 01 Mar 2016, 16:11

I basically have a general issue with the layout itself, @ is totally odd, the whole layout is non standardized and it is iso german actually... I pretty much hate it to the guts but well, what can I do?

I am very biased, I've never liked to type on apple layouts and now it will be part of my daily life

The design is very nice plus the additional 28" monitor, flawless!

But that layout with all it's 'special' character location makes me cringe.
I'd like to have all special cases where they belong to and normal access to AltGr layer as I am used to an US-International layout.

I was hoping for something like 'here you have a key mapper for apple to windows, enjoy'

cookie · 01 Mar 2016, 16:15

Thanks Mu, I was hoping to see you reply to my question, as far as I know you are quite fond of Mac.
The screenshot already helped, I need to evaluate where to put what key on my HHKB.

I hope that I will get along with Mac OS someday, I already miss my Linux environment

Hypersphere · 01 Mar 2016, 16:34

cookie wrote: Thanks Mu, I was hoping to see you reply to my question, as far as I know you are quite fond of Mac.
The screenshot already helped, I need to evaluate where to put what key on my HHKB.

I hope that I will get along with Mac OS someday, I already miss my Linux environment

One consolation is that OS X is built on top of unix. You can always open a terminal on the Mac and there you are in the unix world. It's not linux, but close.

ohaimark · 01 Mar 2016, 16:37

I appreciate Mac OS in many ways -- it's almost as friendly to programmers as Linux, but has far better compatibility and support without power-user knowledge. It's sort of like Linux for dummies.

cookie · 01 Mar 2016, 16:38

Let's see how cmd and ctrl will throw me off in the terminal. But the display where I can swap capslock with cmd is very helpfull! I had no dropdown menu to select the Keyboard as seen on your screenshot, I hope it will become visible after I've plugged in the HHKB.

The mouse is awfull

andrewjoy · 01 Mar 2016, 16:55

Can you just not install linux on your mac ? Try https://antergos.com/ its arch based so pacman YAY! It also supports installing to ZFS out of the box so you can use a file system from this century, the installer is a bit buggy but once its installed its a bitchin hot OS.

I never did get Mac keyboard layout , is it ISO or is it ANSI , wait its both!

cookie · 01 Mar 2016, 16:59

No I think installing something different than Mac OS is not allowed. I have to get along with it, lets see if the HHKB will feel better, stock as it is.

Hypersphere · 01 Mar 2016, 17:18

I suppose you could install linux in a VM on the Mac. I have been testing linux distros this way (currently on a Windows machine, but previously on a Mac). I use VMware Workstation 12, and if the host machine is reasonably powerful, the performance of the VMs is good enough to be actually usable.

cookie · 01 Mar 2016, 17:44

I will check that out definitely, virtualization is a big thing here and they are using Vargant and Docker are a thing comming up in the future to create isolated environments. Maybe I can set up a development VM in which I will work under a different distribution.

Fingers crossed, but I need a different mouse, the magic mouse is killing me.

jou · 01 Mar 2016, 18:10

As someone who is working in the terminal on a daily basis, I really appreciate that Mac OS has that Command key for keyboard shortcuts. I can use Ctrl-C to send SIGINT as you expect and Cmd-C to copy as everywhere else in the OS.

I also quite like entering umlaut on Apple's US layout: None of that " as dead key rubbish of US-International. " actually produces a double quote (which I need way more often than umlauts) and you can Alt-U to get Umlaut dead key.

Hypersphere · 01 Mar 2016, 18:23

@cookie: Regarding layouts, back when I used the Mac as my primary computing platform, I found Karabiner remapping software to be excellent.

About the mouse -- I completely agree about the Magic Mouse. I found it completely unusable. My favorite mice are: the original Razer Deathadder Black Edition, the Razer Mamba Tournament Edition, and the Steelseries Rival 300 Black.

cookie · 01 Mar 2016, 19:06

I will definitely check out Karabiner, that's for sure

I quite like the G9 as a working mouse, because I like the free wheel feature, currently it is disassambled as well.
I don't really see any benefit of having gestures on a mouse, this is something that suits a touchpad, which apple did very well actually.

Thank you again for all your help guys, a bit of faith is restored!

cookie · 03 Mar 2016, 11:30

Well I have another big problem with the mac layout, The US-International Layout does not behave like it should.

I've expected something like this:

But get something like this:

I have no idea how to add the correct layout to the mac system, the first layout is crucial to me :/

Another big thing for me is the separation between CMD and Ctrl, I usually use Ctrl + arrow keys to jump back and forth words or mark/delete them. Now I need another key to realize the same thing I've comfortably had on my ctrl key... The hell?

And Home/End do not behave like they should...

I am really butthurt right now

cookie · 07 Mar 2016, 10:58

HALP!

shreebles · 07 Mar 2016, 11:32

https://support.apple.com/de-de/HT201468

Spoiler:

Muirium · 07 Mar 2016, 12:05

A Mac has too much pride to be a PC! If you really can't adjust, bitch your overlords and get another computer.

pr0ximity · 07 Mar 2016, 12:14

What layout are you trying to use? I believe you can change to something else aside from the US layout.

cookie · 07 Mar 2016, 13:27

As I've described, I try to use the US-International layout but it produces weird output on mac

Often I have to type german umlaut characters and Slavic letters. Therefore I got used to type on the US-International layout, which is awesome btw.

@Mu It's not that I can't adjust, I don't want to

I massively use shortkeys in both Windows/Linux world and they do work very well for me, Mac OS drives me nuts. I've thought about installing Linux on the machine but I am afraight to become the black sheep here :/ Can you maybe give me the jumper positions which work for you?

Mac for me is like this drunken friend at a bar, who massively cockblocks you to hook up with that wonderful women next to you!

I can't move lines as I am used to, I can't copy paste as I am used to, I can't home/end as I am used to, I can't work with my IDE as I am used to and I have to configure everything to be kind of useful (The stock terminal is garbage)

Excuse me for bashing the OS some of you like but it hurts my effectiveness in a bad way right now, thats why I am bitching around so much.

Muirium · 07 Mar 2016, 13:41

And that's why you shouldn't be using it. Go run Windows or whatever like your heart wants you to.

I do the opposite to you. I try to make PC keyboards behave more like the HHKB on the Mac! I've no good advice for trying to swim upstream like you desire. It's probably not worth the effort.

cookie · 07 Mar 2016, 13:45

I hoped that is a common problem and there are ways around it

Hypersphere · 07 Mar 2016, 23:58

@cookie: I used a Mac as my primary computing platform for a few years and made the HHKB Pro 2 my main keyboard during this time. Recently, I switched to Windows as my primary computing platform, but I also use Linux quite a lot, and I still occasionally use the Mac. My mobile computer is a Macbook Air, which is now running Windows. I still use the HHKB Pro 2 keyboard, but I keep other keyboards in my rotation -- remapped to the HHKB/Mac layout. The point of all this is to indicate that it is possible to adapt in various ways and settle into keyboard/OS combinations that work for you.

seaworthy · 08 Mar 2016, 03:16

As Hypersphere mentioned, Karabiner is very helpful for remapping / binding keys and you could probably remap some of your Windows-centric shortcuts to an equivalent on the Mac. Though, I would suggest it’s worth investing the time to learn the Mac shortcuts if you’re bound to that environment.

There are numerous flashcard sites that have flashcards already created by members that will help you memorize Mac OS and application-specific shortcuts. Cram.com is a great site and free.

And Karabiner (also free but definitely worth a donation) is similarly worth the effort. The GUI interface is sometimes frustrating, but that’s balanced by the excellent support offered by the developer.

cookie · 08 Mar 2016, 17:45

Hey fellas,

I've installed Karabiner but was too busy to set it up properly.
Using a mac is still a giant hustle for me but but with all your advises I will be fine I think.

Thank you very much

Daniel · 08 Mar 2016, 21:53

jou wrote: As someone who is working in the terminal on a daily basis, I really appreciate that Mac OS has that Command key for keyboard shortcuts. I can use Ctrl-C to send SIGINT as you expect and Cmd-C to copy as everywhere else in the OS.

I also quite like entering umlaut on Apple's US layout: None of that " as dead key rubbish of US-International. " actually produces a double quote (which I need way more often than umlauts) and you can Alt-U to get Umlaut dead key.

That's why I use the US international layout with altgr-intl, best of both worlds imho

zuglufttier · 08 Mar 2016, 22:13

Don't worry, I find Macs pretty confusing, too

It will take some days or weeks to get used to it... But I'd settle down and learn the Mac way of doing things, sometimes there are interesting things to learn!

DanielT · 10 Mar 2016, 07:34

cookie wrote: Hey fellas,

I've installed Karabiner but was too busy to set it up properly.
Using a mac is still a giant hustle for me but but with all your advises I will be fine I think.

Thank you very much

I have somewhere a custom keymap that tou can import in Mac and will get the "normal" US international layout, it's an xml and after you import it you will have the layout in the list. I'm going to search for it today
I had the same problem with the shitty Mac layouts, I really hate the guts of that OS, perfect hardware on a piece of crap, sorry Mac fanboys