The wiki thread

[ripster]

Sandy55's would be the best if it only wasn't for that Japanese thing.

Lady Chatterly's Lover is STILL my favorite article name though.

[Spharx]

What about this one? For example take this page: http://deskthority.net/wiki/G80-0778 . It would have the text and a gallery with thumbnails, and the gallery has a link to "Full size gallery" or something like that. This link would go to a G80-0778_Gallery page, which would look like the original page with the big images, with the captions but without the rest of the text. It would also get a Category:Gallery, so people could browse that category for photo browsing of all articles.

Thats a gooood idea
Heres a sketch how it could be ... I really like this one


If this is going to be accepted we should define the captions of the Quickinfo table.

[7bit]

... nor are we discussing women cup sizes.

No?

[webwit]

Good point. Lacks gallery.

[webwit]

7bit, you should get a bigger monitor

This is how your design looks like on 1920px. The problem is that because the text bits are on the left and the pictures in the middle, and because of the amount of white space involved, stuff seems to float all over the place.



This is how the M15 page looks:

[7bit]

7bit, you should get a bigger monitor

Wait!
First, everything is too big and then it's too small?

I can provide the photos in higher resolutions,.

1920px you say? No problem!

ps: To be serious:
Centering the images is bad, I now. Is it possible to keep the text away from floating around the images without centering them?

Also:

Maybe we should go both ways. Small images in the article and at the bottom of the page the whole gallery.

[webwit]

I think it's location 'none' instead of 'center'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... age_syntax

[JBert]

... That's preference. Let me repeat, what's bad if everybody follows his own preference for article layout. One guy prefers thumbnails, the other big pictures, the next shadowbox and who knows what. Those preferences should be automated by the engine based on user settings for appearance and skin.

This user setting could be an improvement, but it is a kludge as it downsizes all images, even when a larger thumbnail is preferred like in articles explaining keyboard layouts (see below).

I've been thinking some more to find a way to please everyone. ...

What about this one? For example take this page: http://deskthority.net/wiki/G80-0778 . It would have the text and a gallery with thumbnails, and the gallery has a link to "Full size gallery" or something like that. This link would go to a G80-0778_Gallery page, which would look like the original page with the big images, with the captions but without the rest of the text. It would also get a Category:Gallery, so people could browse that category for photo browsing of all articles.

I agree that something should be done about that page. However, your suggestion does result in double work when pictures are added to the main page.

Maybe we can use something fancier with a script like Lightbox 2 which can be added to Mediawiki by means of an extension. In that case it doesn't matter that gallery thumbnails are small, just click the picture to open the lightbox and see them in their full glory.

Thumbnails accompanying the text should be scaled according to their use (see below).

[In reply to webwit's quote above] What about 2 wiki entries. Or better 2 different wiki-systems for each taste?

Sorry, but this is not acceptable! When there is a description about the keyboard layout (comming soon), there should be a viewable photo about the layout. When I describe how to open a keyboard, there should be a photo showing how to open it. etc.

Having a lightbox or gallery page would improve certain articles. The G80-0778 page linked above is a good sample how each picture on a single line can destroy the main page layout, so organizing them horizontally or in a grid would help to structure the page.

Not considering the size for a moment, regular articles should have thumbnails aligned to the right (or occasionaly to the left if two thumbnails would touch). It's just that excessive center- or left-aligned thumbnails break the page's text flow.

I'm generally for smaller thumbnails, but in the particular case of a keyboard layout where the details should be readable a wider thumbnail can be used (this is why one-size-fits all doesn't work). As an example, Wikipedia has a nice article on language variants, e.g. the Colemak layout, where the thumbnail is actually a 400px wide PNG instead of the smaller variants used in most articles.


In summary I'd propose the following guidelines:
-The default thumbnail width should be set to 250 or 300px (seems to be 180px right now)
-Images should be thumbnailed at the default width if the object in the picture is clearly recognizable from the thumbnail (like in http://deskthority.net/wiki/Keyboard_cleaning , the keycaps can be clearly seen in the glass).
-Images which really show a particular detail may be wider, but it should be used sparingly. If you want to show fine printing in a keyboard case, upload a macro photo or cutout instead.
-Default alignment is to the right. Center alignment is only used for overview shots (using landscape) and should be limited to about one picture per article. Left alignment can be used sparingly in large, text-based articles where you don't want to stick two right-aligned images on top of each other.
-Multiple detailed shots should go in a gallery or grid. If the lightbox solution works, picture size should be set to about 150px-200px to make proper use of the gallery tag's layout algorithm (a client-side script or some CSS-fu might allow larger thumbnails, but we aren't there yet).

[7bit]

...

I will experiment a bit and then change the articles.

Is there any way to make sure that sub-sections don't stat on a new line instead of floatoung along the previous section's images?

[JBert]

<br style="clear: both" /> ? (Wikipedia has a template named '-' for this, included by placing {{-}} )

Or do you want the inverse effect?

[7bit]

<br style="clear: both" /> ? (Wikipedia has a template named '-' for this, included by placing {{-}} )

Or do you want the inverse effect?

Perfect!

I've made another template:
{{+}}
It makes text floating around. So this 'text floating' thing can be switched on or off!



The G80-1000 article is the testsample. When it's perfect. I will change the other articles accordingly.

[JBert]

Ehr... That's not how it works.

It's the pictures which are "floating", and the text just squeezes in unless the CSS style tells it not to.

<br /> is a regular linebreak, whereas <br style="clear: both"/> is a line-break whose CSS style tells it to stretch out until all floating elements are "cleared". When specifying <br style="clear: none"/> it is the same as <br />

With other words: we don't really need the {{+}} template.


EDIT: Also, will we have a say in the final keyboard page layout? In the mean time, experiment away!

[xbb]

why using <br> with clear? It's not semantical correct

[agor]

If you decide on a layout I will change my page accordingly.

But we HAVE to decide somehow..

edit: Oh, and please do an example Article.

[7bit]

Ehr... That's not how it works.

It's the pictures which are "floating", and the text just squeezes in unless the CSS style tells it not to.

<br /> is a regular linebreak, whereas <br style="clear: both"/> is a line-break whose CSS style tells it to stretch out until all floating elements are "cleared". When specifying <br style="clear: none"/> it is the same as <br />

With other words: we don't really need the {{+}} template.


EDIT: Also, will we have a say in the final keyboard page layout? In the mean time, experiment away!

Yes, we (I) need the {{+}} !

The {{-}} switches off floating, the {{+}} switches it on again. Both are needed, sometimes.

If you decide on a layout I will change my page accordingly.

But we HAVE to decide somehow..

edit: Oh, and please do an example Article.

Yes, but in the meantime we just fill in content.

ps: How do I delete a page or an uploaded file?

[agor]

ps: How do I delete a page or an uploaded file?

I guess this is reserved for the Wiki Admins

[webwit]

Also, will we have a say in the final keyboard page layout? In the mean time, experiment away!

Good points earlier. I agree with everything, except that images with no text around it should not be centered but aligned to the left.

The wiki is an anarchy so far, so everyone and no one has a say. All input is welcome, and if it convinces others, it will change things. Daedalus is the wikiarch, but it seems he has so far abstained from imposing his wrath upon us. It might just work because we're not a huge group like wikipedia, and we can work things out by mutual agreement. If that doesn't work we'd need moderators, which can be hopefully prevented.

[daedalus]

Tbh, I haven't even finalized on a particular style for myself, let alone what is suitable for the entire forum. This is very much an on-going task!

I think at first it's more important to lash down information than worry about specifics of formatting.

[agor]

But if we decide on a layout first, you don't have the work of editing everything afterwards.

[7bit]

...
Good points earlier. I agree with everything, except that images with no text around it should not be centered but aligned to the left.
...

Wait! Images with no text around should be aligned to the right?

BTW: I agree now with the 'text to the left and images (250px wide) to the right' ideology.

Except when it comes to keybaord layouts or such.

I think at first it's more important to lash down information than worry about specifics of formatting.

But if we decide on a layout first, you don't have the work of editing everything afterwards.

No, becauuse then no content will be entered ever!

I've tried daedalus's quick info table with the Cherry keyboards and it looked stupid. Thinks don't always work the same way in all situations. Once the information is there, it becomes clearer what should go into the info box.

[webwit]

I was referring to the part where a sparsely bigger picture is used.
The pictures in a situation like this should be left aligned, not centered, not right aligned, to prevent the problems shown in my first screenshot, which looks "stupid".

[daedalus]

7bit - I think there is some way to hide unneeded fields. It's something I will have to look into.

I agree with Webwit. Pictures should either be in a gallery format like in the articles I'm working on at the moment, or in thumbnails to the side like on Wiki articles. Centering makes it look like a forum post

Webwit - I don't know about you, but the 'W' in the 'Wiki' on the wiki logo looks very jagged. I think the logo looked nicer without the Wiki underneath it, but that's just my thoughts on it.

[agor]

Since some days I thought quite a bit about how to organize the Wiki Article for Keyboard Layouts.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Keyboard_layouts

Where should we put the three main layouts (being ANSI, ISO, JIS)?

As the English, German, other European Layouts are derived from ISO wouldn't it be better to subordinate them under ISO?
Sorry if it's not that easy to understand, I hope you do understand what I mean

[daedalus]

I'd draw the distinction between "physical" layouts (ISO, ANSI, JIS etc) and "functional" layouts (UK, German, French etc)

[agor]

Ok, I'all add a picture for the full german layout later.
Shall I use this as an example for the ISO layout too, or should I draw an image for the layout?

[7bit]

7bit - I think there is some way to hide unneeded fields. It's something I will have to look into. ...

Your current version does not make sense for Cherry keyboars, becuase it would say Cherry, Cherry and Cherry and ?-?, ? and ?.

Meaning: There is no content which would make sense to fit into these info boxes.

[agor]

Well, to hide unneeded fields u just need to leave the info "side" blank.
E.g.:
{{infobox dkeyboard
|title= Noppoo Choc Mini
| pn = Choc-84
| branding =
| manufacturer = [[Noppoo]]
| switch = [[Cherry MX]]
| layouts = 84-key ANSI
| interface = [[USB]]
| weight = Unknown
| years = Unknown
| price = ~80 USD
}}

Branding will not show

[7bit]

{{infobox dkeyboard
|title= G80-1000
| pn = G80-1000
| branding =
| manufacturer = [[Cherry]]
| switch = [[Cherry MX]]
| layouts = 101/102-key ANSI/ISO
| interface = [[AT or PS/2]]
| weight = Unknown
| years = Unknown
| price = Unknown
}}

Not useful.

[agor]

Well, people would know that its Cherry MX Switches

given its an old Cherry Board who would have thought of that..

[daedalus]

Well, people would know that its Cherry MX Switches

given its an old Cherry Board who would have thought of that..

You might know, others may not. Thus the purpose of writing these things.

{{infobox dkeyboard
|title= G80-1000
| pn = G80-1000
| branding =
| manufacturer = [[Cherry]]
| switch = [[Cherry MX]]
| layouts = 101/102-key ANSI/ISO
| interface = [[AT or PS/2]]
| weight = Unknown
| years = Unknown
| price = Unknown
}}

Not useful.

Sounds like someone needs to do their homework :p