Do you want an ISO layout, sub tenkeyless keyboard?

[gore]

I guess no one likes the BigAss enter, but me.

It's ok, the board I'm typing on right now has one (Chicony 5191), I think I like the regular ISO enter a little more though.

[RiGS]

BigAss enter is the standard layout in Hungary.

[hate]

well the BigAss enter key has one advantage i cant think of, quite easy to hit it if youre drunk. thou i am swarmed with ISO layout keyboards all around i still prefer the ANSI layout.

[sixty]

They indeed only make the BigAss Enter for the US version. European one uses the normal ISO Enter:

[ripster]

BigAss enter is the standard layout in Hungary.

You need to contact Wikipedia editors.


I never did get a straight answer about China and WHY Taiwan loves these so.


Certainly not a Japanese JIS thing.

If these images are too big let me know. Still haven't figured out the resizer algorithm here.

[RiGS]

The Hungarian wiki is correct.
However, there is an ISO version as well.

[ripster]

Stupid English language Wikipedia. They even used to call the IBM keys doubleshots.

[Ekaros]

I realy hope this kind of board would gain momentum. I mean why no one has seen market for board with good features, is it too much asked?

[webwit]

This is a big ass enter key.

[Ekaros]

This is a big ass enter key.

Hot, lot of big keys ;D

[hemflit]

Don't trust Wikipedia too literally. Those "Country X layouts" are mostly just "what Microsoft decided, reasonably or not, to ship as a layout with Windows or MS-DOS" and not "what is some kind of an official standard there". And sometimes they smoke very funny things at Microsoft.

Actually, the article up there is one notch worse: it's that Microsoft thing filtered through some well-meaning Wikipedia-editing dork's lens of "well I'm using a Country X keyboard right now, so obviously the way my keyboard is put together and the characters it makes on my screen make up the Country X layout". That other Hungarian keyboard article will try to convince you Americans use a BigAss enter too - so much for how seriously you can take its claim that one or the other is "the" Hungarian standard.

A bunch of those countries listed in Wikipedia don't even have official standards saying anything about, like, the shape of the Enter. They'll just have something written back in the 1930s to tell you where they want their letters, digits and basic punctuation. And then, half of the time, the Microsoft solution goes against even that in some details.

it has one: text use s in square bracket to open, /s in square bracket to close. Nice post, will respond properly later.

Ha, it works, thanks! Fixed now. Sorry if I went tl;dr up there.

[Ekaros]

Hmm, gotta love the new Finnish multilingual-layout ;D

I mean it has 4-layers instead of just 3...

[sixty]

How do you access the 4th layer?

[webwit]

Since some characters appear to be capitals, my guess is shift + Alt Gr.

[IanM]

I never did get a straight answer about China and WHY Taiwan loves these so...

...Certainly not a Japanese JIS thing.

I never believed these keys were a deliberate choice because end users wanted them, or because it makes for a better typing experience. It looks very much like a cheap solution for (very old school) manufacturing - one PCB and assembly line, just use the alternate, oversized key enter key when it's time to make a regional layout without the anorexic enter key. That way you can just have a disconnected switch as the stabiliser.


Quite how anyone ended up preferring them I can't imagine, but then some people believe Cherry created the MX black for playing games. The right marketing pitch can persuade people that the moon is made of cheese.

[IanM]

I don't think the mass market wants proper mini keyboards very much, because to them "more is better". If they want more space on their desk, they'll rather take some "compact" thing with all keys, just smaller and squeezed to the side. They're just not that ready to give up the "normal" "features". Mass-market tenkeyless is already uncommon enough...

Wider acceptance of the mini form factor is blocked by issues of fashion, not the lack of layout variety - American and Japanese masses have as little interest in minis as the Europeans.

Tenkeyless v. compact tenkeyless v. compact tenkey is difficult to answer for the broader market. For a long time there hasn't been any choice, and hence no expectation that alternatives exist. However I think the demand for tenkeyless is growing, even if the biggest chunk of the market still has no idea that there is life beyond the tenkey.

It's purely anecdotal, but I have noticed that an increasing number people amongst my family and peers want smaller computers with smaller keyboards, partly because of fashion (making a more attractive living room or office space) and partly because it's practical to reclaim the space previously dominated by oversized, traditional PCs. A lot of those people have been buying laptops for this reason, and some will migrate to tablets, but a few still require a 'proper' PC as well and so they go looking for smaller systems. I think I see this pattern more widely - from the frequent forum questions asking for advice on keyboards similar to laptops, and user reviews at stores like Amazon where people complain that compact keyboard X is not enough like a real laptop keyboard.

I think fashion and a practical requirement is driving the demand for more tenkeyless and more mini keyboards, rather than limiting it. Sure there are still a group who are stuck in the bigger is better mindset, but I see them as the stupidest group - those who will buy expensive 'gamer' keyboards with many coloured lights. Those guys won't be persuaded and they will continue to be a different niche. The biggest group who don't realise there are different choices than the vanilla tenkey that came with their pre built PC, if they were made aware and offered more choice I think that at least some would opt for the compact option.

That's for the mass market. Everything you say about the niches, I totally agree with - I even read your OP at first as only referring to them. This actually shines a little light in the gloom: appearance of fancy ISO mechanical minis may be limited by a bunch of market forces, but at least the mass appeal of minis in Europe isn't one of them...

Actually there are dozens of interesting, unconventional layout mini keyboards at the very cheap end of the market. I posted the Perixx link before for a laugh, but actually there is a more serious point. These guys and various similar brands have recognised this market, and the likes of Logitech are offering a few options like the Ultra-Flat (which is actually pretty good for a €10 product) and the more expensive diNovo Edge & diNovo Mini.

Obviously none of these will satisfy us due to the switch types offered, but clearly there is a willingness on the part of enough consumers to justify €100+ on the stylish Bluetooth boards.

[rane]

Are there any other reasonable options for ISO tenkeyless other than Filco from Keyboardco? I'd love to have a mechanical keyboard at work and I don't see a full size kb as a possibility.

[The Solutor]

I'm Italian and I think I'm going to switch to ANSI, much better for programming too.

You should try the UK layout, better than IT to write in Italian, WAY better than US to program, use shells and so on.

[xbb]

I'm Italian and I think I'm going to switch to ANSI, much better for programming too.

You should try the UK layout, better than IT to write in Italian, WAY better than US to program, use shells and so on.

Why you think it's way better than US, it's not that different. I've already switched to ANSI and I saw your "US extended" layout keymap, interesting, but I think I don't really need it while using OSX, the default US Extended works good. At work could be actually useful since I use Windows and switching everytime between the international and standard layout. Will try it thanks.

[The Solutor]

Yes I think that in OSX, like in linux the US keymaps are better than the stupid windows one.

BTW the UK keymap, is a good mix of the US one (the brackets are all on the right place), but has the ISO layout, the symbols in the first row are more similar to the IT keymap, and has one key more than the US keyboard.

My UK-ANSI layout is a good workaround under windows, but the physical ANSI layout still drive me crazy, remapping the |\ key as enter is a solution, but given that I have half dozen of OS installed remapping all is a boring process.