Siemens Transdata Terminal keyboard & Siemens T1000 switch

[seebart]

Ah, detachable numpad. Smart! I wish more fullsize keyboards were like that.

How do these mystery switches feel? What are they closest to? Do they need a good lube?

they're like XXL vintage MX Brown's. By XXL I mean the travel to bottoming out is much longer, the bump (scratch)is much more accentuated than MX brown, it's almost like a double bump. I have said that this switch is clicky, that is not true. That "bump" is almost like a clicky feedback but's it's not.I'm not sure about lubing. They're pretty smooth. Those two switches that I opened were quite clean on the inside, amazing considering the amount of filth on the rest of the internals! Aside from that I don't even have any good lube. That other stuff I tried on my Micro Switch is much too "pasty" and thick. No good.

[OleVoip]

This keyboard originates from a Siemens Transdata terminal (late 1970s), but obviously some previous owner has tinkered with it. Possibly, the switches were made by Siemens EC division; maybe, Siemens sourced them from somewhere else. All I can say is, they were not in the catalogue of preferred parts (Schwerpunkttypen) that they sold to others.

[7bit]

Why do you say "the previous owner has tinkered with it."?

[seebart]

Very interesting, I don't remember any Siemens branding but that doesent mean anything. The keyboard does indeed look like it has been worked on. So do you have any more Info's on the switch?

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[OleVoip]

I think, your switch is a variant of this one, except for the latching and the illumination:

This is from a Siemens patent, DE2933983 / US4365903, filed in August 1979. The patent is about a modification of the switch, so it is not actual proof that the original switch - for which I never found a patent - was a Siemens one. That's why I've been hesitant in ascribing the switch itself to Siemens. Having thought deeper about it, and considering the patent coverage I've witnessed so far when digging through the patent history of Siemens and other German switch makers, and in direct comparison of the diagram with your photos, I dare say now, it is very likely made by Siemens themselves.

@7bit: Only switches, plate and casing are original, the PCBs have been replaced by wires and breadboards. When the seller said he thinks it's an Apple keyboard, he probably meant that it has been used as an external keyboard for an Apple II or maybe one of the many Apple II clones of the early 80s ("citro", "boskop", whatever), which often came without a keyboard. "Maker" people of that era (called "freaks" then, IIRC) adapted keyboards they found elsewhere for that purpose.

[seebart]

Impressive insights, thanks. I also saw your recent RAFI additions to our Wiki, keep it the good work!

[OleVoip]

Oh, cheers!

[7bit]

Thanks for yhe explanation. I guess our modified keyboards will give future keyboard enthusiasts a lot of trouble, when they discover "Grandfathers" keyboard collection over at ebay ...

[seebart]

...when they discover "Grandfathers" keyboard collection over at ebay

That's exactly what I'm looking for all the time.

[seebart]

I found some more old shots of mine of the switch, but the internals in the illustration look different!

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[7bit]

What I mean, is the mess we will leave behind us. All those modified Frankenstein keyboards etc ...

[seebart]

I know what you mean, I was joking as usual.

[OleVoip]

Looking at the picture I'm now sure that mine is also a Siemens teletypewriter varaint.

The switches basically were the same in the teletypewriters and the Transdata terminals, but Seebart's keyboard is from a terminal, not a teletypewriter. The keyboard case has this funny shape with the bevel on the rear side because it was meant to be put underneath the CRT when it was not in use. The Transdata terminals played a similar role in the Siemens networks as the 3270 terminals did in the IBM world, so facetsesame is correct in calling this a "proper wannabe 327x!"

I think seebart's keyboard is the very first type with this switch, and mine have the PCB mount is the later type keyboard.

Both types are plate-mounted, not PCB-mounted. It's just that the PCB has been removed from seebart's keyboard. The PCB is used for contacting, not for mounting the keys. For Siemens PCB-mount switches of that era, see Haata's Tastatur 280.
Also the change in slider colour does not necessarily indicate an evolution; they only decided to make the two variants distinguishable - maybe they differ in a feature that cannot readily be seen, like, for instance, in tactility or heaviness.

I found some more old shots of mine of the switch, but the internals in the illustration look different!

That's what I meant by "except for the latching": the interior is different, because the patent is not only about the illumination but also about a latching mechanism inside. Regarding the housing, the diagram is missing some details, eg, the notches and chamfers on the lid. But this simplification is allowed since the invention does not relate to these. But the clips that hold the lid on the housing and the switch in the plate have exactly the right shape and position, and no other key that we know matches this. We only know this switch from Siemens keyboards and the only matching diagram for the housing is from a Siemens patent, so I think we can safely call it a Siemens switch.

[seebart]

Very good information OleVoip! Again, thank you. Haata's Tastatur 280 is awesome also, not sure if I had seen that one before.

[terrycherry]

Thanks for OleVoip again. seebart and mine teleprinter were not the Clare Pendar SF switch. Can I call it Siemens vintage switch?
And the sort is mechanical.
You knew so much about Germany keyboard indeed!

[seebart]

The switch is mechanical alright terrycherry. Thanks to OleVoip we are much closer to knowing its a Siemens switch.

[terrycherry]

more details about Siemens T1000 teleprinter:
http://www.teleprinter.net/english/inhalt/t1_e.shtml
http://www.robkalmeijer.nl/techniek/tel ... index.html

[OleVoip]

Can I call it Siemens vintage switch?

You can call it "vintage" since it's linked to the 1970s/80s and seems to have disappeared after 1990. The facts that we know by now strongly suggest it's a "Siemens switch", but we don't have full evidence, yet (which would be a catalogue entry for that switch or it's proper Siemens name or a Siemens part number for it or a patent that shows this switch and not an improvement of it, but maybe we're splitting hairs here).
But "Siemens vintage switch" would be a misnomer, because all Siemens keyboard switches are "vintage". There were several families, all of which associated with eras that have long gone by, and the last ones died out in the 1990s.

If I was to find a name for it, I would suggest "Siemens T1000 switch", even though it was already used for the Transdata system a year before the T1000 was introduced. They are mostly associated with these teletypewriters, which were in widespread use and for which - as you've already found out - a lot of material can still be found on the web, whereas the elusive Transdata terminals have already disappeared in the 1980s and are almost forgotten now.

[terrycherry]

Ok,I take this.
By the way, Did you have the photo of Transdata system keyboard?
I could find that article talking on the book:
https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=Yv ... rd&f=false
And please take a look of this Transdata Model 305:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mickfrench/transdat.htm

[OleVoip]

And please take a look of this Transdata Model 305:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mickfrench/transdat.htm

That's not Siemens but Transdata, Ltd., Hampshire, a British company of the 1970s that made carry-along terminals with thermal printers instead of CRTs. I used the term "Transdata" rather sloppily. I meant the Siemens "Transdata" 810 series terminal system (which I remember from my youth - sorry, no photos). Also, "T1000" is sloppy - it needs to be "T 1000" or "T-1000" (otherwise Google finds you a Siemens washing machine).

I've found another keyboard in this forum, http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/ptt-t ... t7340.html , where they even used that T-1000 switch variant from the patent, with latching and LED!!! That should be evidence enough that this is a Siemens switch.

[terrycherry]

What an excellent found! He owned the linear with spring black or white and LED hole!
But he didn't show the latching switch...

[terrycherry]

I checked my Siemens T1000(with black slider variant) switches are same as yours.
And the white slider variant has some different to black slider variant.
The Black ones making material is better than the white ones. As I see they're made from 1976-1985 on Siemens T1000.
I considered the MFD of that "[1979]Siemens TD 81610(Black slider)" and the later teleprinter "[1985-1990]Siemens T1000S[White slider and white slider with LED(1979 Siemens patent DE2933983/US4365903), I'm pretty sure the black one is the very first made on that switch.

The interesting thing is the switch is Cherry MX compatible, but the keycaps are't compatible to the Cherry MX switch.
Because the Cherry MX slider is bigger than the Siemens T1000 switch slider.

Will post photos with details on next week.

[terrycherry]

If someone want to buy the keyboard or the specific strange of Siemens LED switch, take a look here:
http://francokok.com/collection_rtty/Sp ... -page.html
The keyboard should take apart from the [1976-1982][crypto machine]Aroflex UA-8116(T-1000CA) which is the overseas version of Siemens T1000.

I think you guy would like to try because the switches are very nice to type. And you can make it work on PC as well.