Topre 55g first impressions from an alps user

User avatar
LambdaCore

30 Apr 2022, 23:24

So, first of all, I plan on giving a more in-depth opinion in a week or two to really form a more nuisance opinion. This bit in of itself is written before I've ever touched a Topre keyboard, take this first paragraph as the initial concerns and or interest I have in the controversial switch before trying it out myself. My favorite keyboard is either my Northgate Omnikey/Plus or my Focus FK-2001, I love alps switches enough to have about four alps keyboards currently, and have had more than that - even then my perspective is quite limited as I've never used blue, green, brown, orange or amber alps so I could not tell you where those lie, however white and salmon SKCM alps have impressed me to the extent that I'd call them my two favorite switches at the moment! All of that is to say I don't anticipate the Topre switch to dethrone the former as my favorite exactly, but I've heard a few things that fascinate me more than anything and have been enough to get me interested enough to order one.

What I really hope Topre is for me is soft yet not mushy, one thing that's true of all mechanical switches I've tried thus far is a... rougher bottom out for lack of a better term, I'm not referring to smoothness, as all of my favorite switches are smooth as butter, rather the experience of hitting the slider down on the plastic housing - not a bad feeling, in fact I quite like it! But I can't lie sometimes I wish I had a softer bottom out, the problem is I hate the mushiness which seems inseparable from that softer bottom out, it's why most of the best dome with slider switches have a sharper bottom out I suppose. Welp, I spent about twice as long going on this preface as I wanted so that about sums up my feelings before actually trying it, and I take it what I have to say later fans of Topre and or detractors of the switch will either find incredibly hilarious, or utter heresy! Doesn't seem like there's an in-between.

Now, from here on out this post will have been typed out on my new Realforce and the first impressions.... are insane, it's almost exactly what I wanted from up above, that softer bottom out WITHOUT the mushy cheap feeling just about every other rubber dome tends to suffer from. I've heard reports that the 55g were tiring, however, I'm typing extremely quickly on this without any issue, albeit I have experience with buckling springs and alps, which tend to be heavier than your average MX switch, with that I'd venture to guess I'd probably like the 45g switches a tiny bit less. Some things that surprise me are how well built the keyboard is, it's better built than both my Unicomps for comparison, having next to no flex, not as well built as my Omnikey which is no real surprise. The keyboard also has NKRO which surprised me, as I've read most USB realforces are limited to 6KRO, either way it's a welcome surprise and handily outclasses every other keyboard I have in that respect, as the highest rollover I've had previously were my 6KRO Matias boards, and it handily bests them in just about every other aspect, too!

I went into it a bit earlier, but I have to say: these switches are simply fantastic upon first impressions, I can type on them fairly quickly, they feel just tactile enough and are buttery smooth. It is worth noting however, these are very different from every other mechanical switch I've used, which is to be expected because it is a rubber dome keyboard, however to say that makes it bad is like claiming mechanical switches are horrible by default because of your experience with MX Browns - I have to say I made this mistake myself. The weighting feels perhaps a tiny bit heavier than my SKCM Salmons transplanted into my Omnikey, I'd say it's a tiny bit closer to the SKCM Whites in my FK-2001 in terms of pure weighting, though again the feel itself is completely different. Really the best thing I can say is it does indeed feel like the best of both worlds, the soft feeling of a rubber dome with the smoothness and tactility of a mechanical switch.

Now, onto the layout: I got the TKL, I would have preferred a fullsize however I do appreciate this particular keyboard for having a numpad layer - now for the games I use the numpad on this is useless, however upon first impressions it's fairly usable for inputting numbers, preferable to the number row, only issue is you can't use the alphabetical keys while you're using it, however that's the trade off for more space I suppose.

Lastly, the stabilizers might actually be the best stabilizers I've had in a keyboard myself, let alone out of the box. That's not to say it's perfect, you can make out rattling on the backspace, shift and enter keys, (however the space bar is almost completely silent) but it's minimal enough that I have to actively listen out for it, and is often covered up with the sound of the switch itself, which offers a nice deep sound to it as well.

Overall? My first impressions are stronger than I anticipated! Though at the retail price at about $200+ I think it's a bit steep as switches are all about preference, I'd be hard-pressed to say at the current moment this key feel isn't worth it. Obviously time will tell, while I love these switches now I have indeed heard people complain about fatigue with the 55g, however I am known to be fairly heavy handed so I have my doubts it'll ever be too much of an issue. My first attempt at a typing test led to about 110 WPM, which is above every SKCM alps board I have, however below my highest at about 125 WPM on SMK 2nd gen switches. I'm going to give it a week or so, and report back to this thread and see if I still agree with what I've said, or if this thing manages to beat out my trusty FK-2001 as a daily driver!

P.S. Sorry to flood the board with another topre thread! :lol:

User avatar
wobbled

30 Apr 2022, 23:31

I'm glad we have another Topre lover! They absolutely deserve the same level of attention as Alps & Buckling Spring in my eyes.

I have to say though, out of the box they are never completely perfect. I'd recommend getting some XHT-BDZ for your 2u & spacebar stabilizers. I don't think lubing the 1u keys is really needed at all, but 205g0 is great for that task, or a thinner spray-lube if you can find one that doesn't damage topre domes.
But still, that can be done further down the road if the stab rattle annoys you as much as it does for me - Enjoy breaking in those domes first!

And remember, these switches only get better with age!

User avatar
LambdaCore

30 Apr 2022, 23:37

That'd be the first time I've heard of someone breaking in a switch, I imagine they get lighter the more you use them though as you wear down the rubber... Either way, thanks! One thing I neglected to mention was gaming as I don't particularly put much thought into what keyboard I use to game unless it has a REALLY bad rollover issue such as my other FK-2001 with winkeys and T1 alps with a really annoying block, can't press 2 and W at the same time, but it's one thing I'll have to comment on and see if it at all damages the experience overall. As for lubing the stabilizers, I could see myself doing that on the backspace key in particular, but the shift and spacebars sound extremely well done to me, albeit I mostly daily drive vintage keyboards which tend to have pretty rattly stabilizers.

Regardless, thank you! I'll keep that in mind! I probably won't lube the switches themselves, I love the sound they make and they already feel fairly smooth!

User avatar
Muirium
µ

01 May 2022, 10:57

You haven’t heard it because it isn’t true. They don’t break in. They get a bit stiffer with age. ;)
Bjerrk wrote: 10 Mar 2022, 12:53
Muirium wrote: 10 Mar 2022, 11:07 Now as for the feel of 2014's vs 2020's HHKB: yes, these two are quite noticeably different in weight. I really like the fresh new domes in this darker fella. Significantly? No. But side by side: I like the younger board's feeling better, as they are.
Waitaminute!
I distinctly remember you saying something to the effect of them domes aging like a fine wine. And now you're saying they age like …
Muirium wrote: 10 Mar 2022, 13:43 Not me. That was Wobbled. I prefer the younger, lighter domes. Just a little, not a lot.

I may just be the kind of sicko who could even like 30g! :lol:
My 2014 HHKB’s keys are uniformly stiffer. The lightly used top right backtick key is just as heavier as the super intensely used A and the rest. It’s a gradual toughening up of the rubber, rather than something caused by use. My 2015 55g Realforce will be similarly heavier than yours, too.

Wobbled is right that many Topre fans really like this. HHKB Pro 1 keyboards are prized for their extra age and weight. Not my cup of tea but just a matter of taste.

Welcome to Topre. :D

User avatar
E3E

01 May 2022, 13:48

Muirium wrote: 01 May 2022, 10:57 You haven’t heard it because it isn’t true. They don’t break in. They get a bit stiffer with age. ;)
See, that's the thing. I don't know what contributes to that exactly, but I have two Topre keyboards from 1985, one NOS, one subject to the Sahara, and both of the domes actually feel just fine on them and don't feel stiff to me.

Meanwhile, an 86UB I received from a friend has some of the stiffest 45g I've ever used.

I believe it's partially related to use or particular storage conditions, but it's really hard to say anything for sure imo.

Unless there was a change in the composition of the rubber they use at some point which is more subject to aging, but that's also speculative. No idea, but I have used boards similar in age to that 86UB and older which have not felt so noticeably stiffer.

Hmmm.

User avatar
wobbled

01 May 2022, 14:36

The reason behind the rubber stiffening over time still remains a mystery to me. My near brand new condition Pro 1 A0 from July 2003 has the stiffest topre domes I've ever used. By far heavier than any of my 55g domes.

My heavily used yellowed HHKB Pro 2 from 2013 despite being 10 years younger than the Pro 1 is almost as snappy.
My guess is that the rubber does get stiffer over time, and heavy usage, storage conditions, temperatures etc accelerates the process?

We need a scientist to investigate :lol:

But as for my comment last night on 'breaking in' Topre Domes - that does still happen in the first few months. The spring crunch and topre dome whistling issues (if you have them) almost always tend to disappear after breaking the board in.
From there, the domes then tend to gradually stiffen, though if my near 20 year old Pro 1 can still feel amazing at its age, the dome stiffening is more a blessing than a curse so long as you appreciate tactility.

God tier Pro 1 for reference:
20220426_230957.jpg
20220426_230957.jpg (3.32 MiB) Viewed 5822 times

User avatar
LambdaCore

01 May 2022, 15:17

Good to know I've got a keyboard here set to last! That is something that really impressed me though, the build quality is fantastic on this keyboard! It handily bests every keyboard in my collection apart from my Omnikey, and that right there is an impressive feat! And I think the best way to test that would be to compare the Pause Break key to the alphabetical keys, as I never use Pause Break but obviously use alphabetical keys extremely often, if there's a noticeable difference that SHOULD prove some sort of break in, alternatively if there isn't it's likely just getting used to the topre switches. I will say, though, just typing all of this up has been a dream for sure, typing quickly on this feels extremely smooth, and with my open back Headphones only blocking some of the sound, it almost sounds like I'm typing on wood. This switch IS only getting nicer with time for me, at least.

User avatar
hellothere

01 May 2022, 16:39

You can get silencers for the keys, if you find them too loud. I'm not going to look them up because I'm lazy :D.

Did you get the PFU Edition? Black on black or ivory on ivory? R2 or the new R3?

If you need a num pad, I highly recommend a used Targus pauk001 v3.0. There are generally a few on ebay for around $10. Why these? Well, you can also use the thing as a regular calculator and send the results to your computer. It's also a rubber dome, so you can match the switches in your keyboard.

Of course, you now need a Realforce Mouse.

User avatar
wobbled

01 May 2022, 16:48

The silencers hellothere refers to:

https://kbdfans.com/products/topre-keyb ... 746a&_ss=r
OR
https://deskeys.io/collections/home-all ... -keyboards

Deskeys have more choices in terms of thickness, but the thicker you go the more silent it will be - however there's a chance of doing compression damage to the domes if you choose silencing rings that are too thick without offsetting it with dome gaskets
https://deskeys.io/collections/home-all ... ome-gasket

I've always found the 0.3mm rings to be just fine without the need of a dome gasket.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

01 May 2022, 18:07

Hello there is trolling you, I sincerely hope! :lol:

As for damping rings: I like them but they are pricey and a moderate bother to install. If the stock sound isn’t actively annoying you (and you said you like it) then safe to stay stock.

Here my old vid on damping rings:
Realforces don’t need need them the way Novatouches do. I certainly prefer my HHKBs damped though, personally. Too thwacky stock. But it’s just what I’m used to with my years on Type S.

That HHKB spacebar in the vid just needed reseated, as I recall. It’s a damn nice board all round now. ;)

User avatar
LambdaCore

01 May 2022, 19:03

Muirium wrote: 01 May 2022, 18:07 Hello there is trolling you, I sincerely hope! :lol:

As for damping rings: I like them but they are pricey and a moderate bother to install. If the stock sound isn’t actively annoying you (and you said you like it) then safe to stay stock.

Here my old vid on damping rings:
Realforces don’t need need them the way Novatouches do. I certainly prefer my HHKBs damped though, personally. Too thwacky stock. But it’s just what I’m used to with my years on Type S.

That HHKB spacebar in the vid just needed reseated, as I recall. It’s a damn nice board all round now. ;)
Yeah, I quite like the sound, if I were to silence anything it'd be the upstroke just because I love the bottom out sound so much, but honestly it's such a pleasant feel and sound that I think I just want to leave it stock for now! And I got the R2, I would like a numpad, it's the thing I miss the most from the other boards (I always have two boards connected so I'm never COMPLETELY without one) so I might look into another numpad, I would love one with the same topre switches I have in mine BUT I'm not exactly jumping at the price. I'm actually thinking about nabbing one of the old apple ADB numpads, I still need to do a bit of digging to make sure they use alps though, having some tactile alps I imagine would compliment these fine.

JCMax

01 May 2022, 21:21

I got a 55g Realforce R2 recently and for me they are a little stiff, but have good tactility. The keyboard with 45g silent switches are near perfect and I could see myself taking it to work as my daily driver, unlike some of the other keyboards in my collect due to noise.

Welcome to Topre!!!

User avatar
LambdaCore

01 May 2022, 22:10

Thanks! Personally I find the 55g just right for me coming from other more tactile switches, I find the tactility on these sublime! I might also want to try BKE domes at some point, but that's distant stuff. So far, this might be the best modern keyboard I've used, and while I'm sure some custom keyboards could wipe the floor with the build quality and even pure smoothness of the keys (if lubed), however most tend to favor clicky or linear switches, I've heard good things about box switches but I can't imagine they'll hold a candle to SKCM White Alps - same for linears, while they can sound nice and deep, the only linears I've really loved are linearized Alps T1 switches which I presume feel about the same as linear alps. What I like about these Topre switches is how unique they are, though perhaps that's their downfall since the best way I can think to describe them might not be attractive to someone looking at the $200+ price tag... Definitely an easy switch to dismiss, I'd for sure recommend one of those individual topre switch testers I've seen floating around ebay for around ten bucks or so, see if you like it.

User avatar
wobbled

01 May 2022, 22:23

JCMax wrote: 01 May 2022, 21:21 I got a 55g Realforce R2 recently and for me they are a little stiff, but have good tactility. The keyboard with 45g silent switches are near perfect and I could see myself taking it to work as my daily driver, unlike some of the other keyboards in my collect due to noise.

Welcome to Topre!!!
You might just have to swap that horrible old overly-stiff 55g Realforce for my R1 45g silenced & lubed realforce :D

User avatar
Muirium
µ

01 May 2022, 23:27

Agreed on the marvel that is Topre stabs. Cherry convenience for cap reinsertion, but just as snappy as Costar. A beautiful combination. I just love them whenever I’m playing around with keysets and reach the larger keys. Elegance!

If they need lubed, then you’re diving into the plates. Well worth the time in there, actually, especially when installing damping rings which you’re quite right to hold off on. I’ve just grown much too impatient with experience.

How are you liking those Topre caps, λ? There’s something about their cylindrical profile I really dig.

User avatar
LambdaCore

02 May 2022, 01:15

Muirium wrote: 01 May 2022, 23:27 Agreed on the marvel that is Topre stabs. Cherry convenience for cap reinsertion, but just as snappy as Costar. A beautiful combination. I just love them whenever I’m playing around with keysets and reach the larger keys. Elegance!

If they need lubed, then you’re diving into the plates. Well worth the time in there, actually, especially when installing damping rings which you’re quite right to hold off on. I’ve just grown much too impatient with experience.

How are you liking those Topre caps, λ? There’s something about their cylindrical profile I really dig.

I'm really enjoying them! The dye sublimation on them is far sharper compared to my Unicomp caps, and the feel is quite nice! The profile I haven't really thought about, which in all honesty is a good thing! I've toyed with SA caps and while the sound was incredible, they were a pain in the ass to actually use.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

02 May 2022, 11:22

Exactly. I really dig SA's looks, but my fingers disagree with me. Cylindricals are superior in actual use, for me, over merely gawking! :lol:

Topre is top quality all round. They are the last standing 1980s keyboard manufacturer who didn't cost cut everything across the board, yet who somehow stayed in business! You get vintage quality from them, right now. Truly a blessing.

User avatar
LambdaCore

02 May 2022, 19:37

That really is a great way of putting it. The switches are nice, yes, but you could say the same about Unicomp's buckling springs as well at a fraction of the cost. Problem is you lose the quality case around it, my Realforce is my second most sturdy keyboard, handily besting my FK-2001 and both Unicomps, just behind my Northgate probably right next to my M0115 in terms of build and THAT is high praise. Combine that with great switches and you have a solid keyboard that's always a pleasure to use. It's expensive, more expensive than my Omnikey for example, but accounting for inflation? The price is about right if you look at the MSRP of vintage boards

User avatar
Muirium
µ

02 May 2022, 20:57

If you like Unicomp’s keyfeel, you’ve a lot to learn from Model F. ;)

Slowly, step by step, we shall ruin you. And you’ll love it!

User avatar
LambdaCore

02 May 2022, 23:48

Muirium wrote: 02 May 2022, 20:57 If you like Unicomp’s keyfeel, you’ve a lot to learn from Model F. ;)

Slowly, step by step, we shall ruin you. And you’ll love it!
Oh trust me, it excites me! It hasn't shipped yet and even when it does it *will* take awhile, but I'm excited none the less. I'll probably do a thread similar to this one when I get it.

JCMax

03 May 2022, 00:26

wobbled wrote: 01 May 2022, 22:23
JCMax wrote: 01 May 2022, 21:21 I got a 55g Realforce R2 recently and for me they are a little stiff, but have good tactility. The keyboard with 45g silent switches are near perfect and I could see myself taking it to work as my daily driver, unlike some of the other keyboards in my collect due to noise.

Welcome to Topre!!!
You might just have to swap that horrible old overly-stiff 55g Realforce for my R1 45g silenced & lubed realforce :D
:lol: Does it come in black?

User avatar
wobbled

03 May 2022, 00:39

JCMax wrote: 03 May 2022, 00:26
wobbled wrote: 01 May 2022, 22:23
JCMax wrote: 01 May 2022, 21:21 I got a 55g Realforce R2 recently and for me they are a little stiff, but have good tactility. The keyboard with 45g silent switches are near perfect and I could see myself taking it to work as my daily driver, unlike some of the other keyboards in my collect due to noise.

Welcome to Topre!!!
You might just have to swap that horrible old overly-stiff 55g Realforce for my R1 45g silenced & lubed realforce :D
:lol: Does it come in black?
It does actually - it's the full size model though!

JCMax

03 May 2022, 01:14

wobbled wrote: 03 May 2022, 00:39
JCMax wrote: 03 May 2022, 00:26
wobbled wrote: 01 May 2022, 22:23

You might just have to swap that horrible old overly-stiff 55g Realforce for my R1 45g silenced & lubed realforce :D
:lol: Does it come in black?
It does actually - it's the full size model though!
Full size (not 10-keyless?)
Even better! :)

User avatar
wobbled

03 May 2022, 01:27

JCMax wrote: 03 May 2022, 01:14
wobbled wrote: 03 May 2022, 00:39
JCMax wrote: 03 May 2022, 00:26

:lol: Does it come in black?
It does actually - it's the full size model though!
Full size (not 10-keyless?)
Even better! :)
Sent you a PM :D

User avatar
hellothere

03 May 2022, 01:53

Muirium wrote: 01 May 2022, 18:07 Hello there is trolling you, I sincerely hope! :lol:
Well, not too much.

There really is a Realforce R3 (introduced in October) and there really is a Topre-switch mouse. The PFU version of the R2 has the adjustable actuation and the key spacer thingies that are supposed to make your flux capacitor capacitate better or something. Also, the numpad I mentioned really is nice. I have two of them and might buy another as a replacement if the ones I use on both my computers break. I'm also quite fond of the TKL layout and the option of having the num pad on the left side of my keyboard.

I'm not overly fond of linears, but I do like my SteelSeries. I also like both Alps yellow and Alps green, but not as much as other switches.

I prefer the Model M over the Model F XT. I've not tried the AT. If you do like either, but want the luxury of changing key caps, the Kailh box Jade or Navy are the best alternatives. That's the opinion of quite a few folks. Or I could be lying. I am just a random poster on the Internet. It could really be that the Smith-Corona Leaf Spring are teh b3st3st sw1tch3s ev@h!!!!1111one

JCMax

03 May 2022, 02:03

wobbled wrote: 03 May 2022, 01:27
JCMax wrote: 03 May 2022, 01:14
wobbled wrote: 03 May 2022, 00:39 It does actually - it's the full size model though!
Full size (not 10-keyless?)
Even better! :)
Sent you a PM :D
Where do I go to check it?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

03 May 2022, 10:24

hellothere wrote: 03 May 2022, 01:53 there really is a Topre-switch mouse.
This seems very silly to me. Mouse clicks aren’t the same as keyboard keys at all. A mouse click is the opposite of flow. You want off that thing, asap. Unless your “computing” works like this…

User avatar
LambdaCore

03 May 2022, 13:49

Yeah, I'm fairly happy with my mouse as is! Though I don't like where they slapped the big ugly razor logo on it... But I'm not a mouse expert, so I'm sure big mouse guys are going to get mad at me for that.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

03 May 2022, 14:28

LambdaCore wrote: 03 May 2022, 13:49 big mouse guys are going to get mad at me for that.
Spoiler:
Image
I use a tiny little Magic Mouse, myself. As little as possible. ;)

(And mine has wireless charging, before anyone insists on bringing that up. I’ve got the original version, which took AAs, replaced by a Mobee wireless charging battery, because removable batteries and external chargers piss me off.)

User avatar
wobbled

03 May 2022, 16:59

JCMax wrote: 03 May 2022, 02:03
wobbled wrote: 03 May 2022, 01:27
JCMax wrote: 03 May 2022, 01:14

Full size (not 10-keyless?)
Even better! :)
Sent you a PM :D
Where do I go to check it?
Click 'private messages' at the top right of the page

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