On the need of a larger numeric keypad for modern usage requirements.

User avatar
depletedvespene

28 Aug 2022, 01:50

Obligatory disclaimer: I am a braindead idiot who doesn’t know anything about anything, and has the habit of presenting his own opinions as unquestionably unquestionable facts.

Also: I started writing this a couple weeks before a certain thread was necroed back into active discussion — it’s interesting to see how some issues have been in the minds of enthusiasts for quite a long time.


To say that computing has evolved during these last eight decades is... quite the understatement. Computers are used everywhere nowadays, hardware has improved, software has changed dramatically, and turns out that even some terminology is outdated — in particular, the word «alphanumeric»: strictly, it refers to “a character that is a letter or a number”, but is also widely understood to include all printable characters... including typographical symbols, which have grown from little more than a couple dozen during the sixties to several hundreds in the present, if not more.

Back in the day, adding a simple 4×3 block to the right-hand side of the keyboard, to be able to comfortably type numbers, was quite the improvement.

4×3 numpad.
4×3 numpad.
4x3.jpg (51.1 KiB) Viewed 3608 times

That block grew later to 4×4 or 5×3, depending on the computer system...

4×4 numpad.
4×4 numpad.
4x4.jpg (26.2 KiB) Viewed 3608 times

5×3 numpad.
5×3 numpad.
5x3.jpg (36.77 KiB) Viewed 3608 times

... and then up to 5×4, the size and shape that was fixed and codified in the Enhanced Layout; there have been no major changes in the last four decades.

5×4 numpad (enhanced layout).
5×4 numpad (enhanced layout).
5x4.jpg (46.38 KiB) Viewed 3608 times

The “common” 5×4 numpad has the digits 0 to 9, a period (or a comma, in some national layouts), an Enter key and the four most common symbols (the four basic math operators: +, -, * and /), as inspired by pocket calculators. And yet...

Nowadays, this layout falls short with an alarmingly high frequency. There are just too many usage cases where other symbols are utilized as frequently, if not more, than at least two of the above four. Think of, for example:
  • “Plain” hexadecimal numbers: 4b1d, b00b135, 1337f001, et cetera.
  • IPv6 addresses: 2022:d1db8:8a63::5d8f:6150:1ee7.
  • Money: $123.45, 6,78€, etcetera.
  • Date and time stamps: 27/08/2022 12:34:56 -0400.
  • Coordinates: 33° 26′ 50.9532″ S, 70° 40′ 25.2336″ W.
  • Simple number sequences: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
What is the point of keeping the numbers in the numpad if the hand has to go repeatedly from the numpad to the alpha block and back? The other option would be simply to type the numbers within the alpha block, but then what is the point of the numpad? Sure, it’s fine for occasional usage, but repeated data entry of the same kinds of inputs as in the examples above certainly warrants some kind of review.

Ultimately, 17 keys (20 if the numpad’s keys should be fully unsplit) are not enough.

There is also the matter of placement: back in the day, no one batted an eye at the numpad being an integral part of the keyboard, on the right-hand side, but nowadays this has changed. The high usage of the mouse has made the “tenkeyless” keyboards rather popular, separated numpads are a common sight, and within the “custom keyboards” community we have seen the rise (moderate, but rise) of keyboards with a left-side numpad (which does pose a series of problems about the numpad’s layout — some fully mirror it, some partially, some not at all).

So... we need to take into account more usage cases, we need more keys, and we need to consider the position of the numpad relative to the alpha block.

Adding one row wouldn’t be enough. Adding one column wouldn’t be enough, either. Two rows or two columns would be unwieldy to operate with a single hand. Adding one row to the left and one column above (for a maximum of 30 keys) seems best. Also, four decades (and more) of users’ muscle memories constitute an unavoidable mandate to keep the basal assignments unchanged (with three exceptions, as noted). This, then, would be the starting point:

Numpad's basal assignments.
Numpad's basal assignments.
kle1.png (8.46 KiB) Viewed 3608 times

Other than the extra keys, the main differences are:
  • Numpad+ is split onto two keys.
  • The assignment of Num Lock in the top-left corner is shamelessly erased. Sure, it needs to be available in the keyboard, for compatibility, but there is simply no valid reason to maintain it in the base layer, occupying prime real state, to boot. Heck, IBM itself moved Num Lock to Shift-Scroll Lock on the SSK back in 1987, and that’s fine and dandy, and should have become the standard long ago (i.e.: 1987).
  • Numpad0 is shrunk to 1.5U, while numpad-period grows to cover its space. Given the importance of the number zero, it was important to avoid shrinking its key to 1U, but keeping it 2U wide complicates things for left-side numpads. Making both keys the same width, as was done in some old terminal keyboards, is best. It’s for the same reason that the bottom-left key is 2U tall, to mirror the numpad-Enter key.
Note that splitting the 2U keys, or joining up the two 1U keys above them into single 2U keys is not unfeasible — on IBM Model F/M keyboards this is trivial, while on modern custom keyboards, PCB makers know well how to make “holes” for both possibilities.


With the hardware more or less decided upon, it’s time to start populating the key assignments, and this is where divergence starts.

Generally speaking, the four more often-requested or custom-implemented key assignments are, in rough order:
  • Backspace
  • Tab
  • Equals sign ('=')
  • Comma sign (',')
Other assignments vary wildly, as will be seen below.

We should start with the modifiers. The bottom-left 2U key should be an Fn key (doubling as Shift on some keys, to be seen later on). Tab and Backspace naturally fall on to the top-left and top-right corners... although there is something to be said about the convenience of moving them to the lower half of the numpad, if their expected usage frequency should be high enough (after all, the hand should be mostly on rows 3 to 6, move up to row 2 with less frequency, and all the way up to row 1 occasionally).

Numpad's modifier keys placements.
Numpad's modifier keys placements.
kle2.png (21.39 KiB) Viewed 3608 times

Although each and every user will have his/her/its/their own preference, let’s go for now with a “mods on corners” scheme. With the basal assignments and modifiers already in place, we should place the needed and welcome additions. Let’s start with a numpad intended for general usage.

Besides the already mentioned comma and equal signs, the colon sign, parentheses and the degree sign (the only non-ASCII character... so far) all come naturally to mind as often-required.

Numpads for general usage.
Numpads for general usage.
kle3.png (15.45 KiB) Viewed 3608 times

The English (en-US and en-UK, among others) layouts use a numpad-period key, while many other layouts (German and many of its derivations, Portuguese (Brazil), etc.) opt for a numpad-comma key. Placing the comma above the Enter key on the former group and flipping both on the latter both preserves compatibility with the extant national layouts and allows both to be comfortably used, as both signs are, indeed, frequently used. Note the placement of the colon, also a frequently used symbol when mixed in with numbers; its usage on time markers is, by itself and even if all other usages were to be discarded, enough to merit its placement in one the keys closest to the digits.

The symmetrical nature of this numpad allows for easily mirrored versions.

Variations on the numpad for general usage.
Variations on the numpad for general usage.
kle4.png (28.45 KiB) Viewed 3608 times

Some people like their numpad fully mirrored, some partially, some not at all. In my personal experience using a left-side numpad, I’ve found that swapping only the numpad0 and numpad-period (or numpad-comma, as the national layout may dictate) keys works best for me.

The Fn/Shift key can be used to access a few extra symbols that are not as frequently used but are nevertheless convenient to have on the numpad.

But this, so far, is for general usage. How about some specialized usage cases?


Hexadecimal numbers have been around for quite long in our industry, and yet they have barely been subject to proper input mechanisms. A couple “hexapads” in old keyboards are known, arranged in a 4×4 key block:

4×4 numpad for hex numbers.
4×4 numpad for hex numbers.
4x4-hex.jpg (18.23 KiB) Viewed 3608 times

... but this would clash with the muscle memory of modern users. In not few cases, the numbers A to F were shoehorned into a 5×4 cluster, resulting in a rather inelegant arrangement:

5×4 numpad for hex numbers.
5×4 numpad for hex numbers.
5x4-hex.jpg (69.94 KiB) Viewed 3608 times

It’s just best to take advantage of the sixth row and keep the logical progression. But then, the associated typographical symbols (and letters) vary wildly from computing context to computing context, to the point that we can easily design three different (modern) hexapads for distinct sets of needs:

Numpads for hexadecimal numbers.
Numpads for hexadecimal numbers.
kle5.png (22.86 KiB) Viewed 3608 times

Note how here referring to the bottom-left key as Fn/Shift pays off: thinking of it as Fn allows dissasociating numbers from symbols for the “additional characters” layer, but it’s best to think of it as Shift when dealing with letters, as most of the time they will be wanted as lowercase, but sometimes in uppercase (contrast, say, "\u00f3" with "U+00F3").


Other specialized usages can be easily thought of.

Numpads for coördinates and financial contexts.
Numpads for coördinates and financial contexts.
kle6.png (22.95 KiB) Viewed 3608 times


It's easy to see people who type coördinates a lot clamoring for a numpad like the above (or, more probably, calling it a decent enough starting point and then piling on adjustment requests). People in financial institutions might get a kick out of the two financial-oriented designs above (note the hardware variation, where two alphas have been enlarged to 1.5U in height).


The idea of adjusted designs doesn’t have to be just for industries — it’s easy to see the benefit of general-use numpads “localized” for different countries. For example, in Chile, ID numbers are typed in a lot in all kinds of contexts; these have a modulus-11-based verifying digit, where K stands in as the 11th one (so: 12.345.678-5, 12.345.684-K, etc.) and it stands to reason that adding said letter would be a very welcome addition, even if everything else was left unchanged. The currency symbol ("$") is also used a lot. It makes sense, then, to pull in something like this:

Numpad(s) localized for Chilean usage.
Numpad(s) localized for Chilean usage.
kle7.png (14.48 KiB) Viewed 3608 times

The trend of making ever-smaller, multi-layered keyboards for typing text and navigating within the same main (“alpha”) block has the idea of keeping the hands on that block as much as possible as one design goal. Curiously, this same design goal is what drives the need of a larger numeric keypad (integrated into the keyboard or as a stand-alone unit), to allow this to happen while typing in numbers and number-composed values (IP addresses, money, timestamps, coördinates, etc.).


Yes, I am aware that some modern stand-alone numpads add a separated sixth row (typically with Esc, =, Tab and Backspace), but that doesn’t address the need for a full redesign of the numeric keypad for modern needs; the extra row comes off as just a nice extra, but is still lacking basic, too-commonly used symbols (the colon being the prime example).




With all that said... now what?

Building the hardware is not difficult; 27-key numpads and 114/115 “Enhanced++” keyboards (left-side and right-side) can be crafted, their controllers loaded with with QMK, yadda, yadda, yadda. But then there is the software, computer-side.

The easy thing would be to ship a numpad with its own driver, but that would not cover the Enhanced++ (or “fuller-size”) units.

All major operating systems should be able to natively support the enlarged numpad, where most but not all scan codes already exist... and where each national layout would have to define only one layout for the numpad, as is done today. For the enlarged numpad to be truly useful, the operating system should be able to treat separately the logical layout for the alpha block (or the tenkeyless segment, if you will) and the one for the numpad, which smells of a major change.

With that done, though, it would not be difficult to then define a few numpad layouts for the most common specialized usages, as we already do with, say, MSKLC. The ones I've presented here are my own ideas about how to make them, but surely others will have differing opinions about some placements and also come up with other special-context usage cases that I haven't mentioned.

User avatar
hellothere

28 Aug 2022, 19:00

I'll attach a pic of the number pad I currently have. It's a Targus PAUK001 v.3.0. Works on both Mac and PC (and in my Linux VM). USB. They're $5 to $20 on ebay. You can send results of the calculator to the computer. The little arrow key is a backspace.
Spoiler:
s-l500 - Copy.jpg
s-l500 - Copy.jpg (27.7 KiB) Viewed 3547 times
As far as data entry and accounting are concerned, you really need a number pad. I suffered just doing my own budget. Also, I wouldn't like having to press a FN key combination to get to = / or *. I'd also want both a 00 and a 000 key. I think I could live with the arrow keys and PgUp/PgDn, etc. keys just in one block and not on the number pad, tho.

I've got an iPad app that I could set up a keyboard however I'd like and those keystrokes would be sent to my computer. However, a lot of people want actual buttons. I've thought that maybe an ortholinear keyboard with all same-height caps would be the way to go. I think you could rotate the caps and keyboard 90 degrees and have something that'd still fit on your desk. You'd just need Hasu's USB to USB converter.

Or get a Tipro.

Findecanor

28 Aug 2022, 22:57

Do Chilean numpads come with both point and comma like on Brazilian layout?

Macintosh numpads often come with Clear and = keys like on calculators. The Clear key is Num Lock when plugged into a PC though, but the USB standard has a dedicated "Clear" code as well that isn't used or supported anywhere.

User avatar
depletedvespene

28 Aug 2022, 23:24

Findecanor wrote: 28 Aug 2022, 22:57 Do Chilean numpads come with both point and comma like on Brazilian layout?
Nope. Both the Spanish (Spain) and the Spanish (Latin America) layouts have a 2U numpad+ key and provide only a decimal point in the numpad (way to drop the ball, by the way, as Spanish is firmly on the "decimal comma" camp).

Of all the national layouts I've seen, only the Portuguese (Brazil) layout splits the numpad+ key, to provide both the comma and the period. And yet... it continues to baffle me why, even for English layouts, the comma was omitted from the numpad in the first place.

Findecanor wrote: 28 Aug 2022, 22:57 Macintosh numpads often come with Clear and = keys like on calculators. The Clear key is Num Lock when plugged into a PC though, but the USB standard has a dedicated "Clear" code as well that isn't used or supported anywhere.
I saw once the spec for the original M0120 numpad, where the "Clear" key was defined. I need to find that PDF again, so I can quote here its incredibly vague definition — it truly needs to be seen to be believed. The support for that key is, IIRC, vague and ill-implemented for precisely this reason (and a perfect excuse to discard it).

User avatar
Polecat

29 Aug 2022, 00:05

The comma, as a placeholder in American usage (example - 1,000,000 vs. 1000000) , has largely gone away in recent years. Probably at least partly because many programs aren't written to accept it. And because other (non-American) programs see it as a decimal point.

Regarding an = key on the numpad, Northgate keyboards (other than the Gen3 101) and some Focus keyboards have an = key and a 1u + key instead of a 2u +. That's quite useful when using the numpad as a calculator, but not so much to those of us who use RPN, which doesn't need an = sign. Personally I use an HP10C emulator when there isn't an actual 10C within reach.

User avatar
depletedvespene

29 Aug 2022, 00:30

Polecat wrote: 29 Aug 2022, 00:05 The comma, as a placeholder in American usage (example - 1,000,000 vs. 1000000) , has largely gone away in recent years. Probably at least partly because many programs aren't written to accept it. And because other (non-American) programs see it as a decimal point.
Yeah, but there is still the need of a comma as a separator in a list (1, 2, 3, 4, 5).

Polecat wrote: 29 Aug 2022, 00:05 Regarding an = key on the numpad, Northgate keyboards (other than the Gen3 101) and some Focus keyboards have an = key and a 1u + key instead of a 2u +. That's quite useful when using the numpad as a calculator, but not so much to those of us who use RPN, which doesn't need an = sign. Personally I use an HP10C emulator when there isn't an actual 10C within reach.
I remember that back in the day we thought that the equals sign had to be in the place of Num Lock, mostly for usage in 1-2-3 (later in Quattro Pro, much later in Excel), as the initial character to type in when writing a formula in (so you could type it and then move your hand down without needing to get it back up). OTOH, the keyboards you mention placed the sign between 1U numpad+ and numpad-Enter, and a few split the latter to add the same. If nothing else, an assignment in the numpad for the equals sign should be agreed upon among all interested parties, to avoid a new confusion over the same.

BTW, it's easy to forget how text-only navigation used to be. Heck, VisiCalc let you go into the menu by typing the / character in either the main alpha block or in the numpad, a usage that survives in Excel to this day.

Also, RPN FTW! :D

User avatar
Polecat

29 Aug 2022, 01:18

I remember using DataStar, the database from MicroPro, better known for WordStar. DataStar used a tab to separate items on a list, and that was a total nightmare for data entry. So...do we need a tab in the numpad? ;-) That was before the mouse, of course, with no pull down menus, and with Ctrl next to A on most keyboards and no arrow keys. The WordStar commands are burned into my brain to this day.

Findecanor

29 Aug 2022, 09:36

depletedvespene wrote: 29 Aug 2022, 00:30 Heck, VisiCalc let you go into the menu by typing the / character in either the main alpha block or in the numpad, a usage that survives in Excel to this day.
IMHO, a numpad should not have * and /. It should have × and ÷ !
The use of * and / are a programming language convention that does not make much sense to non-programmers, and those signs are also available in the alpha block.

Besides, the × sign is otherwise difficult to create on most systems, which has led to the widespread use of the letter 'x' used instead of the multiplication sign.
You find examples of this crime against typography everywhere, when it should not even exist! But it does, only because of stupid inefficient keyboard layouts.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

29 Aug 2022, 11:56

Numpads don't resonate with me, but now you mention symbols which should have dedicated keys, you have my interest! All of these could use some mainstream love:

… ellipsis
– en dash
— em dash
× multiply
÷ divide
“” double quotes
‘’ single quotes
µ Mu ;)

Now, yes, I did just type all of them on my HHKB, because I’m enough of a nerd to know their Option shortcuts on the Mac. But a wider keyboard should really have space for all of these. µ aside, the others are all approximated by people continuously with - - s and indeed / s, which are some of the most antiquated typewriter nonsense still in mainstream use, even and especially on phones! Asterisk is not ×, FFS. It very barely even looks like it, let alone / and ÷ :roll:

Getting meta, it would be nice to have keys to type the actual characters printed on modifiers and formatting keys as well: ⇧ ⌘ ⌥ ⌃ ↹ ↩ etc. Though those symbols may be somewhat more niche, despite already being printed on our keyboards!

User avatar
depletedvespene

29 Aug 2022, 12:48

Findecanor wrote: 29 Aug 2022, 09:36
depletedvespene wrote: 29 Aug 2022, 00:30 Heck, VisiCalc let you go into the menu by typing the / character in either the main alpha block or in the numpad, a usage that survives in Excel to this day.
IMHO, a numpad should not have * and /. It should have × and ÷ !
The use of * and / are a programming language convention that does not make much sense to non-programmers, and those signs are also available in the alpha block.

Besides, the × sign is otherwise difficult to create on most systems, which has led to the widespread use of the letter 'x' used instead of the multiplication sign.
You find examples of this crime against typography everywhere, when it should not even exist! But it does, only because of stupid inefficient keyboard layouts.
Not so much keyboard layouts as the limitations of ASCII, which still weigh among us, despite computers not being bound by it anymore. You mention the asterisk and the slash, but there is also the modulus sign ('%'), the negation sign ('!') (with the added offense of ('¬') being introduced later on, but remaining unadopted), the broken bar ('¦'), etcetera.

Yes, keyboard layouts are inefficient (witness the small size of the numeric keypad), but then again, many logical layouts aren't good enough, either — even national layouts designed barely ten years ago by people who ought to have known better are chock-full of omissions and errors.

User avatar
depletedvespene

29 Aug 2022, 12:57

Muirium wrote: 29 Aug 2022, 11:56 Numpads don't resonate with me, but now you mention symbols which should have dedicated keys, you have my interest! All of these could use some mainstream love:

… ellipsis
– en dash
— em dash
× multiply
÷ divide
“” double quotes
‘’ single quotes
µ Mu ;)

Now, yes, I did just type all of them on my HHKB, because I’m enough of a nerd to know their Option shortcuts on the Mac. But a wider keyboard should really have space for all of these. µ aside, the others are all approximated by people continuously with - - s and indeed / s, which are some of the most antiquated typewriter nonsense still in mainstream use, even and especially on phones! Asterisk is not ×, FFS. It very barely even looks like it, let alone / and ÷ :roll:
My very first layout extension added these signs: «» ≠ ∞ § ¶ (plus three of the above you quote).

Many of those can live comfortably in the tertiary layer (AltGr; Option for warped keyboards), but I can see someone remaking the numpad to place all of those in. Heck, we know IBM sold a custom M122 keyboard for a publishing system where the numpad produced diacritic signs! We just need more keys.

Muirium wrote: 29 Aug 2022, 11:56 Getting meta, it would be nice to have keys to type the actual characters printed on modifiers and formatting keys as well: ⇧ ⌘ ⌥ ⌃ ↹ ↩ etc. Though those symbols may be somewhat more niche, despite already being printed on our keyboards!
Don't tell anyone, but I use ⌫ and ⌦ so much in certain contexts, that I snuck them in onto my preferred national layout. ;)

User avatar
Muirium
µ

29 Aug 2022, 13:05

Good ones! I'll sneak them onto my extended list…
Screenshot 2022-08-29 at 12.02.05 pm.jpg
Screenshot 2022-08-29 at 12.02.05 pm.jpg (115.15 KiB) Viewed 3352 times
Mnemonics also have a place. I've already quite enough things triggered from modifiers + my Backspace key. :D

Findecanor

30 Aug 2022, 16:56

depletedvespene wrote: 29 Aug 2022, 12:48 Not so much keyboard layouts as the limitations of ASCII, which still weigh among us, despite computers not being bound by it anymore.
The thing is that we have not been limited by ASCII for a pretty long time now.
How, everyone is using Unicode but:
• MS-Windows got × and ÷ with Windows 2.0 in 1987
• Mac has got ÷ (but not × ) since System 6.0.4 in 1989 or perhaps even earlier.
• Most Unix systems since the early '90s used ISO Latin 1, which is compatible with MS-Windows.
Muirium wrote: 29 Aug 2022, 11:56 × multiply
...
I’m enough of a nerd to know their Option shortcuts on the Mac.
Will you please tell me the Option-shortcut for × on Mac, I've not been able to find it online.

User avatar
depletedvespene

30 Aug 2022, 17:29

Findecanor wrote: 30 Aug 2022, 16:56
depletedvespene wrote: 29 Aug 2022, 12:48 Not so much keyboard layouts as the limitations of ASCII, which still weigh among us, despite computers not being bound by it anymore.
The thing is that we have not been limited by ASCII for a pretty long time now.
How, everyone is using Unicode but:
• MS-Windows got × and ÷ with Windows 2.0 in 1987
• Mac has got ÷ (but not × ) since System 6.0.4 in 1989 or perhaps even earlier.
• Most Unix systems since the early '90s used ISO Latin 1, which is compatible with MS-Windows.
We have not been truly limited by ASCII for less time than that. In the particular case of × and ÷, they were added even earlier than 1987 by IBM, on their "code page" system... but only on some, not all, of them — just as the ISO8859-* standard (of which Micro$oft's Windows-1252 is an EEE copy) did later on... and that was the limiting factor into their appropriate adoption back in the ’90s (†). It was only after the rise of Unicode (despite all its problems and shortcomings) that basic typographical symbols, like those two, or the angle brackets (etc.), could be called "universally available".

We could now adapt some programming languages, which were and still are the driving force behind the continued usage of * and / as stand-ins for the multiplication and division operators, to replace them with × and ÷ (plus many other goodies), but it's going to take a LOT of effort. Heck, some font designers are now making "programming fonts" where they treat sequences like <= and >= as ligatures that are visually displayed as if they were and , a step forward... in a VERY WRONG direction.


(†) It could have been even worse. ISO8859-1 has both signs in a rather odd place (D7 and F7), among "extended letters" of the alphabet. This was because Œ and œ were supposed to be there, until a certain delegate inexplicably declared his language didn't really need them, clearing up both spots, which were then filled-up from the pool of runner-ups.

Johnbo

30 Aug 2022, 17:56

These are some interesting points you bring up, and I've actually been playing around with various numpad related edits myself lately.

I want ( and ) on my numpad, since I use those frequently and don't like them stuck on a shift layer. How are you guys actually sending all these characters? Right now I just have a soarers macros for shift+9 and shift+0, but that seems... inelegant to me. Is there a way (with Soarer's or otherwise) to send characters directly?

User avatar
depletedvespene

30 Aug 2022, 18:22

Johnbo wrote: 30 Aug 2022, 17:56 These are some interesting points you bring up, and I've actually been playing around with various numpad related edits myself lately.

I want ( and ) on my numpad, since I use those frequently and don't like them stuck on a shift layer. How are you guys actually sending all these characters? Right now I just have a soarers macros for shift+9 and shift+0, but that seems... inelegant to me. Is there a way (with Soarer's or otherwise) to send characters directly?
Keyboardery, in this regard, functions in two separate levels: the keyboard sends a scan code (not a character), and the operating system translates said scan code to a character by looking it up on a predefined table (this is the "national layout"). That is why, for example, pressing the C10 key, which always sends the 0xC0, produces ; (if you've beforehand told the computer this is an "English (USA)" keyboard), Ñ (if Spanish has been selected instead), Ö (German), Ç (Portuguese), etcetera.

In the case of the numpad, it's the same thing, only the amount of scan codes defined for it is rather lacking, and so is support in operating systems (for example, scancodes for numpad= and numpad-comma do exist, but Windows happily ignores both), which forces the usage of macros... that, due to the two levels described above, are national-layout dependent: Shift-9 and Shift-0, in your case, for the parenthesis signs, but Shift-8 and Shift-9 in mine.

It is, indeed, inelegant.

User avatar
depletedvespene

30 Aug 2022, 23:57

depletedvespene wrote: 30 Aug 2022, 18:22 It is, indeed, inelegant.
Did I say "inelegant"? Little did I know...

User avatar
thefarside

31 Aug 2022, 05:25

Interesting topic. The Focus FK-5001 has a large numpad for an integrated calculator which is close to the number of keys you’re suggesting. I’m not sure if they send scan codes in KB mode though. If they did it could be possible to remap the scan codes and use relegendable keys.

Post Reply

Return to “Keyboards”