refining a compact layout

matt3o · 04 Mar 2013, 17:42

gmjhowe wrote:Through my local hackspace I have access to various people who get PCB's made all the time, both for personal use and professional in the from of products to sell.

It also means there may be some room to order prototype PCB's easily as part of a board with some of their PCB's.

If you want, I will ask around and get some options.

(also the option to ask people about plates too, I know a few guys with CNC mills that might prototype for us too)

that's great, please ask your contacts and keep me posted.

gmjhowe · 04 Mar 2013, 17:59

What physical size do you expect the final PCB to be?

I reckon 15.5 units wide to be about 295mm wide, by 5 units at about 95mm.
We looking at single sided or double sided?

matt3o · 04 Mar 2013, 18:16

yes, that is roughly my estimate 300x100mm, I haven't got the schematics yet. I think single sided should be enough. I did some quick online quotes and we are in the €12-18 range

matt3o · 05 Mar 2013, 10:42

would you like a chassis like this?

vivalarevolución · 05 Mar 2013, 23:32

matt3o wrote:and these could be the ANSI counter parts

all at the same width (so only 1 case design needed)

I'm probably the biggest fan of this one with the odd-shaped enter key. What is the size on those shift keys?

matt3o · 06 Mar 2013, 07:59

left 2u
right 1.5u

vivalarevolución · 06 Mar 2013, 18:33

matt3o wrote:left 2u
right 1.5u

And the bottom row is 1.25?

matt3o · 06 Mar 2013, 18:44

right

matt3o · 07 Mar 2013, 18:08

I've got some very interesting info regarding the case. There's a process to make low quantity of plastic cases without the need of a mold. With this technique one case would cost approx 15/20 euros. That would be pretty awesome and would make a custom keyboard pretty inexpensive. I need a 3d model to get a final quote.

gmjhowe · 07 Mar 2013, 18:29

matt3o wrote:I've got some very interesting info regarding the case. There's a process to make low quantity of plastic cases without the need of a mold. With this technique one case would cost approx 15/20 euros. That would be pretty awesome and would make a custom keyboard pretty inexpensive. I need a 3d model to get a final quote.

I assume that means it is 3D printer? If so, what type is it using?

matt3o · 07 Mar 2013, 19:05

they are thermo-sculpted, I believe the technique is called "thermoforming"

gmjhowe · 07 Mar 2013, 19:15

Aha, I have used those before, we call them vacuum formers. I am not sure about the final quality we would get from it.

I would much rather have the CNC milled case/plate hybrid like you linked earlier up.

matt3o · 07 Mar 2013, 19:25

gmjhowe wrote:Aha, I have used those before, we call them vacuum formers. I am not sure about the final quality we would get from it.

I would much rather have the CNC milled case/plate hybrid like you linked earlier up.

from the samples, quality seems pretty good if you keep the model simple. I would prefer CNC as well but it's expensive. An alternative would be to laser cut a series of aluminum sheets until you reach the right height (the sandwich effect).

gmjhowe · 07 Mar 2013, 19:29

Yeah, thats the same effect I used for my iMate case, but using acrylic. I will give it some thought. If we used my 'end piece' design then we could get those end bits CNC'ed from Aluminium, with then being a much smaller size, they would likely work out a lot cheaper.

I will give it some thought, see if I can think up some other solutions.

matt3o · 07 Mar 2013, 19:42

I've found a service that can laser cut sheets of aluminum up to 5mm and up to 10mm for S235JR steel... which means that with a couple of layers you can cover the whole keyboard height

gmjhowe · 07 Mar 2013, 20:53

matt3o wrote:I've found a service that can laser cut sheets of aluminum up to 5mm and up to 10mm for S235JR steel... which means that with a couple of layers you can cover the whole keyboard height

Very Interesting. How much would that work out at for a case?

matt3o · 07 Mar 2013, 21:34

I need to design all the DWGs first. I'll try do that in the weekend

vivalarevolución · 09 Mar 2013, 00:17

Any thoughts of combining this with the Deskthority ALPS Project? Because that would be awesome.

Okeg · 09 Mar 2013, 02:54

FInally! whenever it comes to compact layouts people either: do it like the noppoo choc mini, or like the poker.
It's nice to see something done in this way, like the choch but without the goddamn f-keys.

/Off topic.

matt3o · 09 Mar 2013, 08:40

prdlm2009 wrote:Any thoughts of combining this with the Deskthority ALPS Project? Because that would be awesome.

yes, I plan to make the plate for ALPS too

tlt · 09 Mar 2013, 12:24

I have also been thinking of vacuum forming keyboard cases because it can be so inexpensive. I was thinking of a poker style case where you don't see the case that much. I have also seen people doing vacuum forming at home which looks very cool.

TDub · 09 Mar 2013, 13:13

That case looks awesome!

vivalarevolución · 09 Mar 2013, 14:11

matt3o wrote:
prdlm2009 wrote:Any thoughts of combining this with the Deskthority ALPS Project? Because that would be awesome.
yes, I plan to make the plate for ALPS too

Well, that's the best news I've heard in the keyboard since I stumbled upon the Ergodox.

Trev · 09 Mar 2013, 16:08

Great layout!

With the ANSI layout + ALPS, I'd definitely be very interested in testing or group buy.

matt3o · 09 Mar 2013, 16:18

the problem with that ANSI version is that we would need a GB for the keycaps too (weird return and 5u spacebar). And as far as I can tell the 5u spacebar is only in DCS family. Don't know if Round4 SA has 5units spacebars... lemme check

Trev · 09 Mar 2013, 16:23

matt3o wrote:the problem with that ANSI version is that we would need a GB for the keycaps too (weird return and 5u spacebar). And as far as I can tell the 5u spacebar is only in DCS family. Don't know if Round4 SA has 5units spacebars... lemme check

For me personally, I'd be using the alt keys as cmd keys. I definitely don't need a right-cmd (could be filled with spacebar to make it more standard). Not sure how many people would feel similar.

matt3o · 09 Mar 2013, 16:29

nope there's no 5units in SA family, just checked.

Trev wrote:For me personally, I'd be using the alt keys as cmd keys. I definitely don't need a right-cmd (could be filled with spacebar to make it more standard). Not sure how many people would feel similar.

the test boards will be with a 6unit probably so I can use the DSA retro. If there's enough interest (say 100 units) we could run a group buy for the keycaps as well. I'll try to include the small J shaped key in the second round of the retro set.

vivalarevolución · 09 Mar 2013, 16:52

For the weird return key, you could just settle on a 2x key. I know that would leave a small gap. But it would work.

For a keycap group buy, there could an option that just includes the irregular length keys, like the shift keys, return, space bar, etc. rather than the whole set. I am sure you have considered this already.

This might sound like an ignorant question, but the intention of this project is to squeeze a more useful compact layout into a 60% case, correct?

matt3o · 09 Mar 2013, 17:02

the purpose is to create a compact layout with default staggering and the arrow keys. Usually compact layouts with arrows turn down on default staggering.

For this purpose we will probably need a custom case (that I'm designing right now). The ANSI would be feasible actually (so you could fit it into a poker case), but ISO would be more complex.

On a side note... we have to find a name for this project

vivalarevolución · 09 Mar 2013, 17:23

matt3o wrote: On a side note... we have to find a name for this project

The Deskthority Dream Compact?