IC/Discussion on beige set

matt3o · 02 Jul 2013, 11:29

SA would be double shot hence ABS.

for DSA I don't know what surface tooling they have available.

Anyway it seems the needle is slightly bent toward DSA. I'll try to make some layouts and ask for a quote.

The good news about dyesub is that blanks make the legended price go down. So if we sell 100 blank set and 100 legended, the tier is 200.

Muirium · 02 Jul 2013, 11:35

And with dyesub you (the organiser) design your own legends? Because I have a font suggestion for you…

I hope Helvetica legends don't become my unattainable dream, like Dirge's saffron function row!

matt3o · 02 Jul 2013, 11:47

not sure sharp edged fonts are the good choice for dye sub

Muirium · 02 Jul 2013, 11:52

Any way to see a sample? Other than the PBT dyesub Helvetica that's all over the HHKB!

Best of all for retro key styles, it's authentic. The font of choice for many 80s (and earlier) keyboards, not least IBM.

matt3o · 02 Jul 2013, 11:54

I'd go with a slightly rounded type, similar to the one used by Apple. But indeed helvetica is a safe bet.

Grond · 02 Jul 2013, 11:56

Model Ms have PBT dye subs with Helvetica.
Also, another plus of dye subs over doubleshots is that legends can be thinner. So maybe we could even go Helvetic Neue Ultra Light, I guess that could be elegant.

Muirium · 02 Jul 2013, 11:58

The particular type Apple uses on keyboards is VAG Rounded, the Volkswagen font!

It's okay but not nearly as classic as Helvetica.

matt3o · 02 Jul 2013, 12:11

I find CoreHumanistSans very nice, if we want to go with a more modern fonttype.

Please note that SP is not a typography, they do dyesub but we have to be careful with the legends (eg: not too thin, not too sharp, etc...)

pasph · 02 Jul 2013, 12:13

Helvetica Rounded Bold

Muirium · 02 Jul 2013, 12:15

Indeed, thin is beautiful but also a tough order to always get right. Round is safer, albeit not as sweet to my eye. Here's a quick sampler I put together of the other already mentioned versions of Helvetica:

: Helveticas.png (81.84 KiB) Viewed 12547 times

It's one of the most adaptable fonts ever made.

Helvetica Neue, a very well considered remake of the 1950s original with an emphasis on consistency across symbols and non-Roman characters, isn't "too neue" for classic purposes, either: released in 1983. I'd go for Helvetica Neue in its purest regular weight, no smoothing, no thinning. It's just magic!

Anyway, good to see you fellow font nerds today!

Grond · 02 Jul 2013, 12:30

I like both rounded and not rounded, but frankly I don't think there's any issues with sharp typefaces. Legends on the black on light blue set made by SP weren't rounded and there was no problem with them.

matt3o · 02 Jul 2013, 12:35

I'll tune up with SP to pick the best solution.

I find that centered legends are better rounded (actually are there any spherical with sharp types?) but I'll take no decision without community support, don't worry.

Elrick · 02 Jul 2013, 12:46

matt3o wrote:I find that centered legends are better rounded (actually are there any spherical with sharp types?) but I'll take no decision without community support, don't worry.

Because the magic three letter word "DSA" has me reaching for my wallet already. I couldn't care less what type font is used but knowing you, it will be very suitable and "retroesque" (if such a word exists)

.

Getting a DSA PBT set, that would be highly desirable, beyond words.

rindorbrot · 02 Jul 2013, 12:56

matt3o wrote:I find CoreHumanistSans very nice, if we want to go with a more modern fonttype.

Please note that SP is not a typography, they do dyesub but we have to be careful with the legends (eg: not too thin, not too sharp, etc...)

I want a Backspace key with this Schadenfreude on it!

matt3o · 02 Jul 2013, 13:00

Also... would be nice to have 1 proxy per continent or at least 3 (US, EU, Asia/Australia).

7bit · 02 Jul 2013, 13:23

CoreHumanistSans looks really nice.

Muirium · 02 Jul 2013, 13:54

It's nice, but a bit similar to the (SP standard) DSA retro font. Not quite sold on the numbers, either. They look jumpy to me: up and down.

Schadenfreude backspace is a smart idea!

matt3o · 02 Jul 2013, 14:00

numbers can be fixed.

I'll make some mockups with both fonts.

dirge · 02 Jul 2013, 14:59

Can we have "They are not worth it" on delete?

matt3o · 02 Jul 2013, 15:01

I was expecting squirrels.

Muirium · 02 Jul 2013, 15:13

Core Humanist Sans uses "old style numbers" by default. Those are the ones where 7 and 9 hang down like a g while 6 stands tall like a b. Nice enough on door numbers, but not the best for keys. Fortunately, the font also contains an alternate set of regular numbers. Comparison:

: Core Humanist Sans.png (37.21 KiB) Viewed 12481 times

They're still a little wonky and I plain dislike the 8, but a fair improvement. Just definitely try Helvetica Neue too!

dirge · 02 Jul 2013, 15:36

matt3o wrote:I was expecting squirrels.

squirrel instead of a windows key for a laugh.

matt3o · 02 Jul 2013, 16:14

dirge wrote:
matt3o wrote:I was expecting squirrels.
squirrel instead of a windows key for a laugh.

you will never ever have a windows logo on a keyboard designed by me

so I'd rather use a squirrel.

A couple of very rough tests. They are just to get a feeling on the typeface, they are not final by any means.

varela+humanist

: varela-mod.png (50.8 KiB) Viewed 12457 times

helvetica:

: helvetica-neu.png (48.29 KiB) Viewed 12457 times

Although I like the helvetica alpha, mods, symbols and numbers are pretty boring.

Muirium · 02 Jul 2013, 16:22

Boring and authentic! The first mock looks like DSA Retro II: Beige. The second looks like the keyboards many of us used twenty something years ago.

Try a white legend on the mods. And Win? I think you misspelled Meta…

matt3o · 02 Jul 2013, 16:28

Muirium wrote:Boring and authentic! The first mock looks like DSA Retro II: Beige. The second looks like the keyboards many of us used twenty something years ago.

Try a white legend on the mods. And Win? I think you misspelled Meta…

I think we will go DSA, so no white with PBT.

"WIN" actually should read "SUPER" (it was a layout I did for GMK so...)

Edit: I might be wrong, but all old spherical keyboards I've seen have rounded typeface...

Muirium · 02 Jul 2013, 16:36

I'll rummage about at the museum to see if I can find the spherical Helvetica to convince you!

Any chance of OPTION and COMMAND keys (1.25u will do) this time? COMMAND is the one I want most. WIN? NEVER!

Grond · 02 Jul 2013, 16:38

+1 for command, though blank will also be ok.
What about textless modifiers/nav?

matt3o · 02 Jul 2013, 16:41

Muirium wrote:I'll rummage about at the museum to see if I can find the spherical Helvetica to convince you!

Please!

Muirium wrote:Any chance of OPTION and COMMAND keys (1.25u will do) this time? COMMAND is the one I want most. WIN? NEVER!

Grond wrote:+1 for command, though blank will also be ok.
What about textless modifiers/nav?

Mac keys will be available. Blanks in all colors and variants too.

Muirium · 02 Jul 2013, 16:45

You're the man!

phinix · 02 Jul 2013, 17:01

matt3o wrote:
Muirium wrote:Boring and authentic! The first mock looks like DSA Retro II: Beige. The second looks like the keyboards many of us used twenty something years ago.

Try a white legend on the mods. And Win? I think you misspelled Meta…
I think we will go DSA, so no white with PBT.

"WIN" actually should read "SUPER" (it was a layout I did for GMK so...)

Edit: I might be wrong, but all old spherical keyboards I've seen have rounded typeface...

DSA PBT is the best choice I think.

Matt, are these the colors you want to go with? Not cream/beige? (or like those WCK and GAW)