Embedded arrow keys

[Wendell]

I think embedded arrow keys are a good idea, even on a standard keyboard. I've never understood why the vi keybindings are hl/jk, though. I would have made it j;/kl.

Actually, I think the most natural layout would be jl/ik. But I don't think I've ever seen that implemented. Any suggestions why that arrangement is not as obvious to other people as it is to me?

[Laser]

I think, perhaps, you think "wasd" (newer), while vi authors thought "home row" (older)

[Muirium]

IJKL has a long history of its own, actually. There's a bunch of them with examples of their use here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_keys#IJKL_keys

I don't like vi's bindings. HHKB and ESDF are my favourites. The HHKB diamond is great on a 60%, but requires a well placed function key. ESDF is my left handed backup, and doesn't require leaving home row like all the gaming proles.

[Vierax]

My arrow keys are in a function layer in asdf : ←↑↓→ since I used this home row configuration in most of games it's quite perfect to me. But nowaday my trackball is on the left and I have to remap on jkl; (I need to update my Tipro to switch the nav keys and the numpad which is on the right side of this layer) The use of the order ←↓↑→ on the right is simpler for the Stepmania gamer I am. (MAX300 !! )
Interesting link Muirium !

[Wendell]

IJKL has a long history of its own, actually. There's a bunch of them with examples of their use here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_keys#IJKL_keys

That's a good article. Don't know why I didn't think to look there.

So the origin of the vi bindings is in control codes. Makes sense, considering the vintage.

ESDF might be OK, but it would make switching between a standard layout harder. I always thought WASD gave too much work to weak fingers.

[Hypersphere]

I think embedded arrow keys are a good idea, even on a standard keyboard. I've never understood why the vi keybindings are hl/jk, though. I would have made it j;/kl.

Actually, I think the most natural layout would be jl/ik. But I don't think I've ever seen that implemented. Any suggestions why that arrangement is not as obvious to other people as it is to me?

I agree. In fact, one of the cursor mappings I have on my HHKB Pro 2 is Alt+IKJL. Control+IKJL is even better, especially with Control mapped to where CapsLock lives on a standard keyboard; I would use this mapping if it were not for the fact that I use Control+K to delete lines in one of my oft-used programs. However, I now mainly use the default cursor diamond on the HHKB Pro 2, which is Fn+[/;'.

[hasu]

I use HJKL for my cursor job from my conventional preference and being right-handed, though IJKL looks useful in specific for mouse cursor. I cannot move diagonally with vi keys, it is very difficult to press two keys at a time.

I use thumb or pinky to change layers so that I can do the job with one hand. Space and ';' are my Fn keys with dual role key hack. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modifier_k ... -role_keys
Dedicated Fn key is better but most of keyboards usually don't have enough spare keys on proper place.

[Muirium]

I'm going to try out dual role keys on my home made 60% using your controller. Things like double tap and hold, and using space to mirror the keyboard for a one handed layout, like Matias. Any gotchas I should know about? Timing is the hard part, I've heard.

[bhtooefr]

It depends on where your Fn key is.

Playing with things right now, I'm actually tempted to argue for IJKL over WASD or ESDF. The reasoning there is, I'd use a left Fn on a design of my own (where Ctrl is on a conventional layout), hitting the corner of the key with the edge of my palm (behind the pinky). That makes the letter area somewhat awkward to get to on the left, especially the further up or to the left it is. (Tab and the number row are still easily accessible like that, though.)

Mind you, on the 60% design I'm planning, I'm planning on copying the Apple //e, ///+, //c, and some early ADB Mac keyboards layout of linear keys on the bottom row. Not sure if I'll do ←→↓↑, copying Apple, or ←↓↑→, copying vi. Then again, I'd use a reprogrammable controller, so it really doesn't matter.

[HzFaq]

This is what I do with my Filco (Phantom is a little different as its winkeyless); capslock gets mapped to control, left control to FN, IJKL as arrows and also change FN+Space to backspace; this lets me use the side of my left hand to hit the FN key whilst staying on the home row and use the arrows on the right hand. I kind of mirror this on the left hand as well, I change the menu key to FN (I can hit this with the side of my right hand) and then ESDF are arrows. I also have a delete on FN+P and FN+Q, which along with the backspace on FN+spacebar are 3 of my favourite remaps.

It took practically no adjustment time and with the control key in the capslock position I can jump/delete words from the home row and leap about in spreadsheets with just a little turn of the wrist and without any (well, too much) awkward chording.

[Muirium]

Some people definitely like palming / heeling / whatever the smart name would be for using the side of your hands instead of fingers. Apparently I type all wrong for that, as I find my thumbs reach much better. Standard space bars are a huge waste of thumb real estate. The next custom I build will be up to stuff down there, as I've the caps for it.