Ergo-whites?

[fart_toast]

On the topic of ergo-mods, does anyone know the difference between the 62g springs and 62g "limited" springs on originative's site. One is in stock and one isn't.

http://www.originativeco.com/collection ... ts/springs

[jefferai]

On the topic of ergo-mods, does anyone know the difference between the 62g springs and 62g "limited" springs on originative's site. One is in stock and one isn't.

http://www.originativeco.com/collection ... ts/springs

Someone posted on the ErgoDox massdrop about them (they had asked the company). From the thread:

"...limited versions of the springs have slightly higher elasticity, which makes me think that they may be made out of a higher quality material and are less likely to get droopy over time, but may be a little stiffer"

However, I don't remember where I read this (maybe on the lube thread with the originative guys on GH) but they do not expect to get more limited in stick any time soon, if ever, and it sounded like a big if. Is order three normal 62s (that's what I did after reading that).

[fart_toast]

Cheers for that Jefferai. Tempted by the 65g now. The 62g are almost identical to the Cherry MX blue, red, brown switches in their graph on the website. I've got stock brown and blue springs. I just want something a touch lighter without going full on stock clear spring.

[jefferai]

Cheers for that Jefferai. Tempted by the 65g now. The 62g are almost identical to the Cherry MX blue, red, brown switches in their graph on the website. I've got stock brown and blue springs. I just want something a touch lighter without going full on stock clear spring.

Hmm. That's a good point. The lubing already makes them a bit smoother so maybe it ends up to light.

I went with 62g since my reading around about ergoclears specified those as the right weight to get... but I agree looking at that graph that maybe 65 is more ideal.

[jefferai]

One thing to point out, from http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Ergo_Clear ... It seems like if the spring is too heavy it can be "sticky"... have difficulty pushing the key back up. The wiki page suggests Korean (which the originative are) 55-60g springs. So maybe the 65 would be pushing it.

[Jmneuv]

Logically too light a spring would make them return too weakly thus sticky.
The wiki states cN, that's different from the grams measurement.

I'm just now typing on 67g limited 'extra' ergo clears and liking them well - i'd recommend the 65g.

On a sidenote: Unfortunately i have to admit that panda clears were a failure, the latest graph also confirms that black springs are actually heavier on parts of the travel.. they just don't work out. The inbetween 67g springs now are what i had been aiming for with pandas.

[fart_toast]

One thing to point out, from http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Ergo_Clear ... It seems like if the spring is too heavy it can be "sticky"... have difficulty pushing the key back up. The wiki page suggests Korean (which the originative are) 55-60g springs. So maybe the 65 would be pushing it.

That seems backwards? Surely too light of a switch would cause the "sticking problem"....that's the reason I wish to go for a firmer spring than 62g...to make sure I get a bit more headroom in avoiding the sticking problem.

The stock clears will be a touch too heavy for me. I find browns really nice but I wish they were that bit firmer....hence 65g seems like a good option again.

[fart_toast]

You must have it backwards OR imagine what the stock MX cherry 80g springs would do if the 65g were "pushing it"...stock clears don't stich

[jefferai]

I didn't think about it very long or hard, and yes, I have it backwards

[fart_toast]

Just seen on Originative's site that clears are apparently between black and browns spring wise at 65g peak force?! http://www.originativeco.com/pages/mechboard-101

I thought they had 80g springs like greens?

[Muirium]

That guide's a bit hokey. For instance, clears are definitely more than browns with a "slightly larger tactile bump". You can see how much bigger the bump is in the animation. Anyway, "peak force" stats aren't all about springs. There's more than one moving part in a tactile switch.

[jefferai]

Just seen on Originative's site that clears are apparently between black and browns spring wise at 65g peak force?! http://www.originativeco.com/pages/mechboard-101

I thought they had 80g springs like greens?

It does seem that way. According to DT's wiki:

"Similar to the Cherry MX Brown, it has a tactile bump before the activation point. The tactile bump is more pronounced than a Cherry MX Brown but not as sharp as most rubber domes and Topre switches. It is longer and peaks higher, at around 65 cN.
There is a dip at the activation point (55 cN), below which resistance increases sharply up to 100 cN at the bottom."

As someone pointed out earlier, there is a difference between cN and g. Although the 65g/65cN numbers sound suspiciously the same

Anyways, the ErgoClear guides I'd seen suggested 62g springs. Presumably they were aware of the original strength of the springs (and indeed, it had seemed to me that the point was to use a very slightly lighter spring than the clears come with, not a stronger one).

[Jmneuv]

There's 2 different methods for measuring: one is the actuation force of the switch (usually in cN), the other is the naked spring fully compressed (usually in g). The korean springs and the like are designated by the latter method.

Light cherry switches (i.e. browns) have something like a 58g spring, while clears and blacks have a significantly stronger spring (80-90g, maybe?). There's also differences in spring lengths, that's how the black(heavy) and clear graph rise differently. Clears have the shorter springs.

In the end you might feel too little difference between a brown and a 62g spring.

[jefferai]

There's 2 different methods for measuring: one is the actuation force of the switch (usually in cN), the other is the naked spring fully compressed (usually in g). The korean springs and the like are designated by the latter method.

Light cherry switches (i.e. browns) have something like a 58g spring, while clears and blacks have a significantly stronger spring (80-90g, maybe?). There's also differences in spring lengths, that's how the black(heavy) and clear graph rise differently. Clears have the shorter springs.

In the end you might feel too little difference between a brown and a 62g spring.

Thanks for that!

It's an interesting suggestion that it might feel just like a brown, but from the diagrams I've seen, the bump provided by the clear comes from a physically larger bump on the mechanism. So it seems like I should expect a clear with a 62g (or maybe slightly better clear with 65g) spring to feel much like a brown with a slightly larger bump and slightly more actuation force.

[Kurk]

I went for 62g ErgoClears in my ErgoDox. They feel nice but there were two switches that tended to bind with these springs and I had to replace the switch bases.
I would use heavier springs, e.g. 65 g, the next time I make ErgoClears.

[jefferai]

I went for 62g ErgoClears in my ErgoDox. They feel nice but there were two switches that tended to bind with these springs and I had to replace the switch bases.
I would use heavier springs, e.g. 65 g, the next time I make ErgoClears.

Out of curiosity, do you have all R3, or different rows on your keycaps? I haven't put my hands on an ErgoDox yet so have no idea which might feel better.

But, thanks for the info -- will choose 65g. Sadly, the 67g were only the Limited and are sold out on Originative. I do wish they had something like 70g (possibly on other sites that I'm not aware of?)

[Jmneuv]

I used new mx-reds from a quickfire and clear sliders from a new G80-3000.. the tactile bump is pretty huge now. Where i mixed in some missing spots with used older brown switches and the same new clear sliders the bump is just slightly stronger than normal browns..

[fart_toast]

I used new mx-reds from a quickfire and clear sliders from a new G80-3000.. the tactile bump is pretty huge now. Where i mixed in some missing spots with used older brown switches and the same new clear sliders the bump is just slightly stronger than normal browns..

Hi, so are you saying that you found a difference in the end result when making ergo-clears between using MX red springs and MX brown springs?

[Muirium]

Reads as a difference between using brown and clear stems to me. Which would only make sense. The clear's magic is its stem.

[fart_toast]

Yup, read through it correctly now. TY Muirium. *rubs eyes* (want to leave the office!)

[Jmneuv]

Hehe sorry what i meant to say was: your ergo-clear experience is pretty much guaranteed by sticking clear sliders into anywhere.. i am using the 67g springs i mentioned earlier;
I tried to make the following second statement: different switch bases (the body and the contact leaf) can make a huge difference between using newly manufactured/10 years old and unused/used ones.

[fart_toast]

Hehe sorry what i meant to say was: your ergo-clear experience is pretty much guaranteed by sticking clear sliders into anywhere.. i am using the 67g springs i mentioned earlier;
I tried to make the following second statement: different switch bases (the body and the contact leaf) can make a huge difference between using newly manufactured/10 years old and unused/used ones.

67g springs are sitll much lighter than stock clear springs yes? With the Korean rating, 80g korean would be similar to a stock MX clear spring? Pretty sure i'm gonna go for the 65g Originatives...just waiting for them to tell me is one book of switch-stickers is enough for a single full sized KB or if I need to order more than one! Can place my order after I know that.

[Jmneuv]

67g springs are still much lighter than stock clear springs yes?

Yup.