Mounting options for Teensy in IBM keyboards

[Hypersphere]

Not only is it reversible, but USB C will make OTG support at some level standard for all USB hosts and devices, because both ends are the same. No more special OTG cable for plugging into a smartphone or tablet, just use the ordinary USB C cable. (Some devices will be hardwired as devices, some hosts will be hardwired as hosts, but the point is that special OTG cables will be a thing of the past.)

How soon will USB C cables and connectors be available? It would be nice to "future proof" our mods with respect to USB connections.

I suppose those of us who want to move ahead with today's USB cables/connections could just chose what appears best for our situation. For example, at the moment the Teensy 2 has an on-board mini-USB connector, and strain relief cables are available with mini-USB to USB-B panel-mount connectors. The USB-B looks massive, but its scale might be appropriate for an XT or F-122 keyboard.

[bhtooefr]

Who knows, I suspect it'll take a while for production to ramp up, and the spec isn't finalized yet. That, at least according to the USB 3.0 Promoter Group, is expected the middle of this year, so very shortly: http://www.usb.org/press/USB-IF_Press_R ... _Final.pdf

[Paralel]

Looks like they are right on track for a mid-year approval:

http://www.usb.org/developers/USB-Futures.pdf

I have a feeling that Type-C will be very popular and get taken up quite quickly. IDK about anyone else, but the required orientation of USB cables has annoyed me since the 90's. Had enough of that crap with previous standard (with PS2 being one of the worst offenders, *Blood boils*)

I hope other standards groups start adopting this type of plug, especially for display connections. It would remove one more source of annoyance in life. I want to be able to plug things in without needing to look. HDMI is infinitely more annoying compared to component for consumer electronics.

[quantalume]

IDK about anyone else, but the required orientation of USB cables has annoyed me since the 90's. Had enough of that crap with previous standard.

I hope other groups start adopting this type of plug. It would remove one more source of annoyance in life.

Ironically, I always found the mini-USB connector to be the easiest to get the orientation correct on. A useful and popular connector got deprecated by a committee of "experts" because it had a life cycle of "only" 5000 insertions. Meanwhile, the frustrating-to-use versions live on. How many insertion/removal cycles is the micro-USB connector good for when it's jammed together upside down?

[Hypersphere]

IDK about anyone else, but the required orientation of USB cables has annoyed me since the 90's. Had enough of that crap with previous standard.

I hope other groups start adopting this type of plug. It would remove one more source of annoyance in life.

Ironically, I always found the mini-USB connector to be the easiest to get the orientation correct on. A useful and popular connector got deprecated by a committee of "experts" because it had a life cycle of "only" 5000 insertions. Meanwhile, the frustrating-to-use versions live on. How many insertion/removal cycles is the micro-USB connector good for when it's jammed together upside down?

Now that I am about to embark on a mod of my F-122, I wish the new USB C connectors and cables were already available. However, given that my new Mac Pro has standard USB-A connections, I supposed I should simply use whatever is currently convenient for the connector on the keyboard case. Returning to the fact that there are readily available panel-mount USB-B connector cables with a mini-USB plug for the Teensy 2, I am thinking of going that route.

[Muirium]

Something tells me you'll have zero bother sourcing USB micro and even mini cables long into the future. There's a lot of kit out there, and unlike older protocols, USB is good at backwards compatibility.

Having used both mini and micro quite a bit now, I must say micro is better. It's tougher. That's what counts. Smaller isnt always weaker. The USB B socket I put on my Soarer box is very large yet no stronger feeling.

Apple's Lightning is USB's future. Always good to see someone's leading the way. We would still be using bolted parallel connectors for everything if the committees had their way!

[Hypersphere]

Something tells me you'll have zero bother sourcing USB micro and even mini cables long into the future. There's a lot of kit out there, and unlike older protocols, USB is good at backwards compatibility.

Having used both mini and micro quite a bit now, I must say micro is better. It's tougher. That's what counts. Smaller isnt always weaker. The USB B socket I put on my Soarer box is very large yet no stronger feeling.

Apple's Lightning is USB's future. Always good to see someone's leading the way. We would still be using bolted parallel connectors for everything if the committees had their way!

I really like the panel-mount USB-B female to mini USB male cables designed to provide an interface between a Teensy 2 and the keyboard case, and the somewhat large USB-B connector would not look out of place on an F-122 case or even an XT case. I would also not mind using a micro USB connector on the case, but I have not yet found a strain-relief cable that has a panel-mount micro USB female connector with a mini USB male plug on the other end.

However, there are of course other options, including panel-mount micro USB connectors that have pins for making soldered connections from the Teensy, as I think you have done in your custom 60% board.

Moreover, as you point out, there are going to be parallel options for USB connectors and cables for some time after the introduction of the new USB C standard.

[Muirium]

I have one of those Leonardo brand Teensy 2 knockoffs in the mail, thanks to Scottc pointing the way, so I will try something more adventurous with it than I have dared with my 4x as costly Teensies.

Specifically, I'm thinking of trying a surface mount soldering hack so I can hook wires straight to the Leonardo's USB mounting pads. Soldering wires to USB sockets is much easier than to USB jacks, I have found. The Leonardo is Micro USB so I have even more motivation to avoid this!

[Hypersphere]

I finally found a panel-mount micro USB cable, except that it has a micro USB plug on the other end of the cable:
http://www.datapro.net/products/usb-mic ... e-m-f.html

panel-microUSB.jpg (113.73 KiB) Viewed 5615 times

However, this could be used directly with a Teensy 3.0, which has a micro USB on board.

With a Teensy 2.0, there are cable or block micro USB to mni USB adapters, such as this one:
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Micr ... KGWF7PP70R

micro2mini.jpg (7.34 KiB) Viewed 5615 times

However, by expanding one's horizons to using soldered connections, there are many other possibilities to consider for putting a micro USB connector in a keyboard case or external converter box.

[quantalume]

I finally found a panel-mount micro USB cable, except that it has a micro USB plug on the other end of the cable:
http://www.datapro.net/products/usb-mic ... e-m-f.html

Hey, great find! Now we just need to arrange a group buy to get the price down or find DataPro's Chinese source. I'm never happy unless it's less than a buck.

[Hypersphere]

I finally found a panel-mount micro USB cable, except that it has a micro USB plug on the other end of the cable:
http://www.datapro.net/products/usb-mic ... e-m-f.html

Hey, great find! Now we just need to arrange a group buy to get the price down or find DataPro's Chinese source. I'm never happy unless it's less than a buck.

Thanks. Took some digging. DataPro will make custom cables. I have a request pending with them. I will let everyone know their price; I am sure it will be more than $1.00.

Edit: I heard back from DataPro. The "custom" cable would simply be spliced and shrink-tubed. They can put the splice anywhere along the length of the cable that the customer specifies. The cost would be $21 per cable for 1 to 10 cables. This is clearly a lot more than $1.00, and I suppose any of us could splice and shrink-tube a cable. I think I might try their panel-mount micro USB cable and use a short micro to mini adapter on the plug end. Alternatively, I could use a panel-mount USB-B to mini USB cable from Adafruit or PJRC.

[Muirium]

Ought to be interesting. Also: we could use a source for slim, ready made Micro USB cables. Ideally single ended, but we can always slice them open if required. The male side is 90% of the work, I find, in custom cabling. And slim is a priority inside cases.

[Hypersphere]

Ought to be interesting. Also: we could use a source for slim, ready made Micro USB cables. Ideally single ended, but we can always slice them open if required. The male side is 90% of the work, I find, in custom cabling. And slim is a priority inside cases.

Adafruit sells DIY USB connector shells of various kinds, including this MicroB plug:
https://www.adafruit.com/products/1826

DIYusb.jpg (264.43 KiB) Viewed 5601 times

And it's less than a buck, thereby satisfying quantalume's criterion!

[Muirium]

Take off the sheath and see just how mental they are to hook up… I'm yet to find a good one. They are a real fight!

[Hypersphere]

Ought to be interesting. Also: we could use a source for slim, ready made Micro USB cables. Ideally single ended, but we can always slice them open if required. The male side is 90% of the work, I find, in custom cabling. And slim is a priority inside cases.

I have edited my post about DataPro. Their custom cable is simply a spliced cable with shrink tubing, and they want $21 for it. I've taken a pass on that one.

I found a slim micro USB to USB cable in my collection, but I don't know where I got it. I've seen flat USB cables, but the connectors are still large.

The Monoprice premium cable looks like it has substantially reduced the size of the USB 2 connector, but the micro USB connector still looks like it has a larger diameter than necessary; if so, presumably it could be trimmed with a razor knife. Connector dimensions: 0.74" x 0.36" x 0.25" on the micro USB end and 0.97" x 0.54" x 0.25" on the USB A end.
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=1 ... 1&format=2

MPPmicro.jpg (15 KiB) Viewed 5586 times

[wcass]

We might want to split this thread as it seems to have drifted off topic.

[Hypersphere]

We might want to split this thread as it seems to have drifted off topic.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. How do we split a thread? There are the original bits about foam mats, and more recently there are posts about electronics and connectors. Could a moderator move the electronics posts to a new thread on, say, "Modding Model F Keyboards -- Electronics"?

[Muirium]

Mmmh. This is Deskthority, where moderation is… uh… moderate, to overstate it.

The Demongolator sometimes arises to vanquish flames, but I'm not sure this one's his kind of thing.

[Hypersphere]

Mmmh. This is Deskthority, where moderation is… uh… moderate, to overstate it.

The Demongolator sometimes arises to vanquish flames, but I'm not sure this one's his kind of thing.

While I appreciate the flexibility and freedom, I can also see that it could be useful to readers looking for specifics to find them under suitably named threads. As it is, I feel a bit like Lawrence when Sherif Ali warns, "...You were drifting". I could offer the excuse that I was thinking, and I could promise that it won't happen again, but likely it will. I would be happy either way -- to continue as we are with this drifting thread or perhaps to start a new one on electronics/connector aspects of Model F modding.

[bhtooefr]

I just reported this post as being off-topic and suggesting a thread-split there.

[7bit]

Do you just plug in a USB cable to the Teensy and consider it a fixed cable? My trouble is that I like detachable cables, so I wind up wiring sockets leading to other sockets…

The most elegant way would be to mount a Teensy good and proper, so its own socket is exposed as the live one on the back of the keyboard. But that's a mechanical job I doubt I'd do right. I wanted to with my converter box, but I wound up with a second socket and a little hacked together jump cable even there!

You can solder some wires of a USB cable to the Teensy.

[Hypersphere]

I just reported this post as being off-topic and suggesting a thread-split there.

Thanks. I see that the thread has indeed been split. This one is a new thread on "Mounting options for Teensy in IBM keyboards" and is focused on electronics and mechanics of connectors. The original thread is "Replacement Foam Mat for IBM Model F Keyboards".

[Hypersphere]

Do you just plug in a USB cable to the Teensy and consider it a fixed cable? My trouble is that I like detachable cables, so I wind up wiring sockets leading to other sockets…

The most elegant way would be to mount a Teensy good and proper, so its own socket is exposed as the live one on the back of the keyboard. But that's a mechanical job I doubt I'd do right. I wanted to with my converter box, but I wound up with a second socket and a little hacked together jump cable even there!

Is it not a good idea to provide strain relief between the keyboard connector and the Teensy? If so, the method you ended up using is elegant after all!

[Muirium]

Well, as we were saying, the best way seems to be something like this:

[Halvar]

That's also pretty much what I ended up doing.

IMG_3279.jpg (28.78 KiB) Viewed 5483 times

IMG_3737 (Small).JPG (30.02 KiB) Viewed 5483 times

[Hypersphere]

That's also pretty much what I ended up doing.

Spoiler:

IMG_3279.jpg

Spoiler:

IMG_3737 (Small).JPG

Looks like the connector I am thinking of using. I have several different types on order to see which will work best. I will be installing in AT, XT, and F-122; might end up using somewhat different connectors in each. It appears that you did not use the mounting screws, as the connector fits snugly between the pins and wall of the keyboard case.

[Halvar]

I had to whittle around on the connector a bit, especially on the upper side where you see the grey innards of the connector because it was a bit too high, but now it fits without screws or any other fixing.

[Hypersphere]

Regarding connections for installing a Teensy in an XT board, on the original XT cable there is a wire that splits off from the cable before it gets to the connector to the controller. This split-off wire connects to the case, and so I assume it is a ground wire. When bypassing the original connector by using a Teensy, what should be done with this extra ground wire to the case?

[quantalume]

what should be done with this extra ground wire to the case?

Forget you ever saw it, live life and be happy.

[Hypersphere]

what should be done with this extra ground wire to the case?

Forget you ever saw it, live life and be happy.

Seriously? I always worry about loose ends until I can convince myself that they are truly unnecessary or addressed properly in some other way. I still remember the horror I felt as a child when I watched the Mad Hatter commit one atrocity after another while "fixing" the White Rabbit's pocket watch, culminating in using a knife to slice away the excess bits and pieces that were hanging out of the case.