RF 87u 55 gram Topre

[Hypersphere]

My 55g Realforce just arrived too. First impression: The difference to the 45g switches I tried is bigger than I expected it to be but I like it. Being used to the heaviness of a Model M I think I can cope with this. Office test will come up during the next weeks. I just hope my colleagues can stand the sound of a proper keyboard

At first, I liked the more solid and weighty feel of the 55g steel plate-mounted RF as compared to my HHKB with its plastic case-mounted 45g switches. However, after more use of each board in actual work tasks, I am leaning toward the feel of the HHKB; the RF is beginning to feel a bit too heavy. However, I prefer the sound of the RF board. Now I am thinking I need to sell some keyboards and try the 45g "EK edition" RF.

[Muirium]

No, no, you need to try the Type-S. But only after you sell some boards, you hoarder!

[Hypersphere]

Ouch! The ad hominem attack stings all the more when it happens to be based in truth! Somehow it seems less evil to spend $40 each on ten boards than $400 on just one. But come to think of it, this reminds me of what a British colleague said to me when I was spending some time in his lab in England: "You Americans spend a lot of money on research and do ten experiments to our one. But we discuss it a great deal over a nice cup of tea, and we do the right experiment."

[TheNacho]

At first, I liked the more solid and weighty feel of the 55g steel plate-mounted RF as compared to my HHKB with its plastic case-mounted 45g switches. However, after more use of each board in actual work tasks, I am leaning toward the feel of the HHKB; the RF is beginning to feel a bit too heavy. However, I prefer the sound of the RF board. Now I am thinking I need to sell some keyboards and try the 45g "EK edition" RF.

Since I was using a Model M before the 55gr Topre, I quite like the fact that it is heavy and more tactile than the 45gram variant. I don't know it that view will change in the near future, we will have to see. I am still thinking about getting a Novatouch when it comes out, and then get some nice Dolch or some other thick PBT's to put on that.

[Muirium]

Dolch PBTs, eh? That would be interesting: the Dolch colour scheme, with light legends, requires doubleshot! Doubleshot PBT is, apparently, on the cusp of turning mainstream. I'd love to see some! But in the meantime Dolch is ABS.

@Hyper: Just kidding around with you. The number of boards I've gathered in the last year does not lend well to my credibility!

[TheNacho]

Dolch PBTs, eh? That would be interesting: the Dolch colour scheme, with light legends, requires doubleshot! Doubleshot PBT is, apparently, on the cusp of turning mainstream. I'd love to see some! But in the meantime Dolch is ABS.

@Hyper: Just kidding around with you. The number of boards I've gathered in the last year does not lend well to my credibility!

I didn't say Dolch PBT's (even though that would be pretty nice), but Dolch OR some thick PBT - I would also take some SA profile caps if there were some available, but I guess it would make sense to get the keyboard first

[Hypersphere]

No, no, you need to try the Type-S. But only after you sell some boards, you hoarder!

Just to clarify: you did mean the Type S HHKB Pro 2 rather than the silent version of the RF 87u, correct?

Compared to my standard HHKB Pro 2, the RF 87u 55g is much quieter and the sounds it makes are of a lower pitch, more solid, and less hollow. It is a bit like comparing the sound from closing the door of my old Morris 1100 vs a Lexus. The Lexus mades a solid, muffled thunk instead of a thin hollow rattle.

However, when I am using the RF, I keep thinking of the wasted space taken up by the F-row and nav cluster; I do just fine without these using the HHKB. Moreover, the HHKB already has the layout that I want. No need to reply on software that is tied to a specific computer.

Nevertheless, I also keep recalling Trev's experience with his Type S HHKB vs his silent RF. He finally opted for the RF because its sound and feel conveyed a greater sense of quality.

It is unfortunate that the price premium of a Type S HHKB is so great and that the silent RF is available only as a variable-weight version.

Per the earlier conclusions reached by others and myself, what's wanted is an HHKB Pro 2 Type S at a "reasonable" price, with a metal plate, USB C connector, and options for 55g and BT. And maybe capacitive BS switches instead of Topre.... Hmm, it's beginning to look like a Kishsaver!

[Muirium]

I left the precise keyboard unspecified because there's a good case for them both. The one time I've tried a Realforce, it was the ergo weighted model (white, fullsize) borrowed for a week on 002's European tour. I didn't expect to like variable weighting, as I type with my hands roaming all around the keyboard, even on a 60% like my custom here. But it surprised me. I found it very nice indeed. The only improvement I could think to make, besides a detachable cable or Bluetooth and other ponies, was to go TKL and maybe 55g.

But you have that one already. And in that case, I'd look into the Type-S.

The HHKB Type-S model (with legends) is one of those supreme keyboards I'd really like to have, but can only dream of. Only the µTRON split ergo keyboard rivals it among Topres. Well, and I suppose the HiPro, although the lack of a TKL model let alone Type-S option dulls that one a bit. The silenced HHKB is something I very rarely see for sale as used, and I suspect its second hand value (especially in Europe) is immense. If I ever go to Japan, I really must bring one of those back with me! But these dreams have a habit of lasting many years…

I'm always glad I got my Kishsaver, of course. It cost me less than any model of HHKB, and it's one I'll keep until the end! But you're never truly finished in the search for the ultimate keyboard. Or even in the quest to build it for yourself, as the higher pitched clicks of these MX greens remind me!

[Hypersphere]

Thanks for clarifying. Although the HHKB Type-S seems like a supreme keyboard, one of our members (Trev) found it wanting in comparison to his silent version of a RF. Of course, as people are fond of saying, "YMMV".

After typing all morning on my HHKB, I am back on the 55g RF 87u, admiring its classier feel and sound, yet bemoaning the wasted space taken up by the seldom-if-ever-used F- and nav-keys.

BTW, on my RF, I have programmed the right-Ctrl as Fn and the "menu" key as right-Ctrl. This maintains the functional symmetry with the left side of the spacebar and makes the Fn key more comfortable to use than it was in the menu key position.

The indecision and rotating back and forth between the HHKB and RF indicates that there is no clear winner. Each board has its merits and demerits.

The Type -S HHKB is now on the shopping list, but I really do need to wait until I've managed to sell a few boards (and until the HHKBs are back in stock). EK runs out of stock so quickly, I wonder how many units they order at a time and how many they actually sell. The market for $400 keyboards surely can't be very large.

[Muirium]

Well, you've seen Geekhack…

[TheNacho]

To get into HHKB waters, I really need to finish university and get a job that pays better

[Muirium]

You can guess someone's promotions by how many Topre clacks they have in a row on their HHKB.

[TheNacho]

I would already be fascinated if one of my colleagues knew what 'Topre' is

[Hypersphere]

Yes, some authors might think if they can get their latest book featured by Topre, they've got it made.

[Muirium]

Writers being into Topre? In my dreams, Hyper! Unfortunately, all too many of them peck away at the miserable keyboard on their MacBook nowadays. Besides the odd ones who are still into typewriters…

http://deskthority.net/photos-f62/write ... t8454.html

[Hypersphere]

My comment was a long shot play on words and contemporary American "culture". TOPE-Rah sounding a bit like OPE-Rah.

Speaking of actual writers and keyboards, however, it would be interesting to know the statistics. We know something about the tools used by selected famous writers such as Isaac Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke, but far less about the tools used by others.

Back to enjoying my RF 87u 55g....

[Muirium]

Tope-rah? I always thought it was Toe-pray. Admittedly, I thought Oprah was pronounced Opera until I heard her name out loud, but she's not nearly as well known over here of course. Ours is a land of Stephen Fry instead of David Letterman, and, um, I guess Paul Merton instead of Stephen Colbert (which you can rest assured I was sure rhymes with Dilbert). Not all good news then!

[Hypersphere]

There are posts on GH and Reddit on the pronunciation of "Topre" if you're interested.

[Muirium]

No need. They're wrong. Besides the Japanese, of course.

[Hypersphere]

Touché. There certainly are many versions of the pronunciation of Topre out there. Incidentally, while searching for the definitive one, I ran across a YouTube video of Hitler's reaction to finding out that Topre was stopping production of replacement keycaps; it's quite funny as dark humor goes, as long as you don't actually understand German.

[002]

Speaking of YouTube videos. Here's one with the actual Topre pronunciation within the first 10 seconds

[Muirium]

Aha! Thanks for the definitive solution, 002-san. And inaudibly different to how I say it myself, as Scots have notoriously growling Rs, but I'm from Edinburgh where it's not so pronounced.

Good thing about Japanese, German, and frankly most languages other than English in the world: their spelling means something and you can usually read aloud exactly how a word is meant to sound. Us meanwhile, oh brother. The irony of our medieval brogue being the world's own common language!

[002]

I feel awkward saying it in real life because really to say it properly I have to break the mild strine accent to deliver the word in a Japanese accent.

[detto87]

Actually, the Realforce feels so nice with 55g keys, that I decided to stock 1 up for backup.
My keyboard search is over.
Finally.

(the TKL layout with its color scheme, dye pbt caps, and possibility for caps/ctrl swap are a nice combo that helped making that decision. it's the complete keyboard that ticks all boxes.)

[Muirium]

Make the backup the other colour scheme… more options to play with that way, while still being the ultimate board.

[detto87]

I don't like the black keys at all. If they'd be blank AND if I'd want to put em on the white board, then I'd consider.
But knowing that I don't wanna use a black case board and the caps it comes with don't fully suite my tastes (mainly because they are readable but then they're not), I'll put another white one in the basket. Fits my mouse better too.

[Hypersphere]

Actually, the Realforce feels so nice with 55g keys, that I decided to stock 1 up for backup.
My keyboard search is over.
Finally.

(the TKL layout with its color scheme, dye pbt caps, and possibility for caps/ctrl swap are a nice combo that helped making that decision. it's the complete keyboard that ticks all boxes.)

Thanks for posting! Although I have been receiving encouragement to opt for the HHKB Pro 2 as my favorite keyboard, with each day I am leaning more and more toward the RF 87u 55g black (dark gray). While I prefer the form factor and layout of the HHKB Pro 2, the RF feels and sounds like a higher-quality product.

I had an extra set of white/gray and black (dark gray) HHKB Pro 2 keycaps, and so I swapped out the black alpha and number caps for white, but I kept the black spacebar. I do favor the HHKB/Mac layout, and so I have used Karabiner software to remap the RF accordingly. I used the RF-furnished caps to swap CapsLock and Control, and I used black Command, Opt, and Fn caps from the black HHKB set -- a good way to get rid of the Windows bubble keys and menu key. I also replaced the Backslash key with a black Delete key from the black HHKB set. Finally, for the sake of approaching color symmetry, I used a black Tilde cap from the HHKB set in place of the white one on the RF.

Having been down the "my keyboard search is over" path a few times before, I am still keeping options open. The RF is currently the daily driver in my home office, and now I need to decide on the two workstations in my work office. At the moment, I am considering two possibilities for one or both of these stations: (1) Another RF 87u 55g, but in white; (2) Type-S HHKB Pro 2, but swapping out the 45g domes for 55g domes from an RF and possibly swapping out the white case for a black one (in my mind's eye, I can already see Muirium cringing).

[Muirium]

I don't like the black keys at all. If they'd be blank AND if I'd want to put em on the white board, then I'd consider.
But knowing that I don't wanna use a black case board and the caps it comes with don't fully suite my tastes (mainly because they are readable but then they're not), I'll put another white one in the basket. Fits my mouse better too.

Ah, I confused you with someone else in Europe on the thread who recently ordered black. I'm the same way, colour wise. The white caps are definitive, in my opinion, while the blacks are fine as blanks but pretty ludicrous with nigh invisible legends. A black Realforce body with white caps is a nice mix, though.

Thinking of ordering from the Keyboard Company this time? Selfishly, I want to answer this question:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/rf- ... ml#p177233

Still haven't heard confirmation from anyone who ordered a white model from KC.

[Hypersphere]

I don't like the black keys at all. If they'd be blank AND if I'd want to put em on the white board, then I'd consider.
But knowing that I don't wanna use a black case board and the caps it comes with don't fully suite my tastes (mainly because they are readable but then they're not), I'll put another white one in the basket. Fits my mouse better too.

Ah, I confused you with someone else in Europe on the thread who recently ordered black. I'm the same way, colour wise. The white caps are definitive, in my opinion, while the blacks are fine as blanks but pretty ludicrous with nigh invisible legends. A black Realforce body with white caps is a nice mix, though.

Thinking of ordering from the Keyboard Company this time? Selfishly, I want to answer this question:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/rf- ... ml#p177233

Still haven't heard confirmation from anyone who ordered a white model from KC.

As previously suggested, it could just be the lighting/photography. However, the difference is so pronounced it is worth checking out. Perhaps you could email KC and ask about the color.

[Muirium]

"Hello? Hello?"

Pretty sure they're on holiday today! But then again, on any non-bank-holiday:

"Sorry to trouble you, but how white is your 'beige' Topre Realforce?"
"It's beige."
"Yes, but I mean how beige."
"Beige beige. Just as described on our site."
"Right, but everything is a matter of degree, you know. There's beige and there's beige."
"It is beige, sir."
"No but I mean, ah, well look at this picture from your American competitor's web site."
"Do you have any other questions?"
"No, but this is important."
"So is our regional exclusivity. I can't speak for other retailers on the internet, I'm afraid."
"Yes, I quite understand. But with your own two eyes, which picture looks more like the Realforces you have in stock? Just between you and me."
"Confidentially?"
"Absolutely!"
"Well, they are beige."