Is KG-8 The RO-59 Killah?

[Konrad]

Good to know that you properly applied advanced urine and huffing techniques in your experiment.

Given the nature of modern industrial production/economy, I doubt even the manufacturer really knows with any certainty the exact composition of the plastic "blend" used in any given batch of keycaps. They probably vary from run to run, all sorts of economic and practical parameters (and human decisions) will alter the plastic formula each day. The manufacturer doesn't care as long as production quotas are met, production costs are low, and final product meets minimum specifications.

rip's test keys could indeed be high-grade engineering ABS, or more likely some "blend" of ABS containing some proportion of cheaper or recycled thermoplastic garbage. It could also have all sorts of additives - lubricants, stabilizers, whatever - which may or may not effect reactions within the plastic bulk or even just the top keycap surface.

A better test might involve the invisible underside of the keycaps, although the results might be meaningless in any practical context. I personally think that if preserving your keycaps is important to you then simply avoid using possibility problematic products like rip's splooge when so many alternatives are available.

[The Solutor]

rip's test keys could indeed be high-grade engineering ABS, or more likely some "blend" of ABS containing some proportion of cheaper or recycled thermoplastic garbage.

ABS is already a blend of polystirene, a rubber and an acrylic component, w/o adding anything else.

So ABS as is means almost nothing. All depends on the three components dosage. Then, as you said, other components can be added.

That said the precision sliding/or rotating components are usually made of nylon or teflon, obviously the latter is used only in costly components with industrial, medical, military grade...

Back to the microswitches, the housing could be a kind of ABS, but is really unlikely that the stems are made with this kind of plastic, for a number of reasons, the first one is the well known low resistance to the friction.

[ripster]

Let me guys know when you both agree on what reality is.

Filco keys do pretty well.

And I think a better switch to test is the old SKool ALPS with the cruciform stem on my Apple M0110. My virtually NIB Focus 2001 I'm not really feeling much of a difference.

[The Solutor]

I've just checked the cherry website.

The ML and MX switches are the only ones where the plastic used is not indicated.

In all other series the plastic used is clearly mentioned, and there isn't a single switch made with ABS.

There is a great variety of plastic used POM, PBT, Nylon, ASA and so on, but not ABS.

[ripster]

Good. Otherwise I'd have to fudge my chemical and boiling tests.

Added alternatives to the OP.

[Konrad]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention Stabilant is a bit pricey, although it "only" costs about half as much if you're smart enough to avoid ripoffs like Amazon. The 15mL service kit of S22A (which is diluted to 25% S22 and 75% isopropyl) costs about $35, and about 6mL did all the switches on my ancient M.

Stabilant's distributors are listed on the lower half of this page. It is used by the US military, NASA, aerospace, and broadcast industries (my supplier actually stocks it for the CBC antenna techs). (This alone is unusual, the only example I know of US military depending on an exclusive corporate product without second source.) From time to time a diluted (1 part S22, 7 or 11 or 15 parts isopropyl) form is marketed to hardcore audiophiles under the brand name TWEEK, twenty bucks gets you about half a teaspoon and a really slick looking eyedropper.

It's not Teflon/PTFE based, it is some kind of secret proprietary polymer categorized as a "polyglycol" on the MSDS. It also looks like a clear glassy syrup instead of like splooge. It smells funny while drying.

[ripster]

Spooge smells funny when drying too.

[lal]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention Stabilant is a bit pricey

So this stuff is real? Really? I could've sworn that was a quite funny troll post, considering the name "Stabilant", it's HOME PAGE (sic), space shuttles, and "all the black cherries in one of [your] Ms"... :)

[sordna]

What a horrible site, it doesn't even have a description of the product, you have to dig to tech note #2. It says it's an electrical contact cleaner, not a lubricant though, so how is it relevant for lubing switches?

[ripster]

I think I'll add Caig Lubricant's to the testing. They are made for this kinda stuff.

KG-8 is made for lubing guns is my conclusion. Damn Koreans made me waste $18. I'm going to buy a gun.

[N8N]

I don't know how well it works as a lubricant, but I have a can of Caig Deoxit D-5 and love it, it's great for cleaning up old contacts that are too small or inaccessable to clean up using mechanical means. supposedly it prevents corrosion as well, but for my usual uses (on automotive connections) I always put a swipe of silicone grease on the connection as well.

The can does say "lubricant" but I don't know how well it really works for that purpose, I have not used it for same. It's a little on the expensive side as well, to use when you really don't need it.

[itlnstln]

I'm going to buy a gun.

Is that legal where you live? Here, you're just handed one at the boarder.

In Texas, this is "Dialing 911:"


True story - I had to hold for an operator when I dialed 911 here in Rickperryland.

[ripster]

I shouldn't bring up Koreans and guns in the same thread. Will be labelled racist by Lanx.

[Konrad]

So this stuff is real? Really? I could've sworn that was a quite funny troll post ...

Nah, I generally don't waste my time trolling people. Unlike yo momma.

[gore]

That red stuff looks like the grease I inject into my bike pedals...

[sordna]

This DuPont Non-Stick Dry-film lubricant might be good:
http://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Non-Stick- ... B003UTX0R8

The product page says it protects plastics:
http://www2.dupont.com/Consumer_Lubrica ... cants.html

DuPont™ Teflon™ Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant

A unique dry-film lubricant that leaves a micro-thin, pure Teflon® fluoropolymer coating. This clean, long-lasting coating repels abrasive contaminants, resists corrosion, and reduces friction and squeaks. Excellent for high temperatures.

Goes on wet to penetrate, then sets up with a clean, dry, white micro-thin coating
Non-staining film bonds to most surfaces
Lubricates parts to reduce sticking and squeaking
Thin coating is excellent for tight tolerances and sliding tracks
Helps materials resist chemical contaminants or water
Acts as a protective coating for metal, plastic and rubber

MSDS here, it contains isopropyl alcohol
http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/PEN ... 2c43b1.pdf

[Konrad]

A little searching for camera lubricants found Klüber Lubrication, dunno if they make the best lubes but they certainly do provide the most comprehensive engineering data on their website.

[sordna]

The lube we are looking for should be easily found in retail. Klueber as well as RO59 seem to only sell huge containers to manufacturers, etc. Has anyone tried the DuPont one I mentioned? It's even available on Amazon.

[webwit]

One gallon (3.785l) of concentrated RO-59tm KT (Key Tronic) costs 50000 yen from this source, which is 450 EUR. Probably cheaper from the US, but I don't see this type listed there.

Perhaps I should buy a gallon and release a Deskthority RO-59 in cute little containers.

[ripster]

iMav recommended the Dupont spray for Motorcycle chains.

I haven't tried it but the MSDS DOES look OK.

I'm not having luck finding the MSDS for Tri-Flow, another easy to find one.

The problem with KG-8 is it's made for guns, not keyboards.

[sordna]

The multi-use DuPont spray you are referring to contains wax (it says "dry wax lubricant" on the bottle). Good for chains, probably bad for switches. The one I pointed to (non-stick dry film lube) seems the best DuPont one for keyboard switches. Isopropyl sounds better than water based (RO-59) too, it will clean old switches better than water based ones will, and dry faster.

[webwit]

Could one dilute RO-59 in isopropyl instead of distilled water? Then we would have something better than the Koreans have.

[ripster]

Hah, then the Koreans will just say we are using the wrong horsehair brushes to apply it. When it comes to mystical spooge Westerners will always be behind.

Meanwhile In North Korea...

R0-59 Development.png (262.33 KiB) Viewed 6846 times

[webwit]

I think they just import it from the US? Also Key Tronic is a US company, and this product variation (tm KT) was developed for them. Of course I don't know if you can mix these, but my guess is that the dilution with distilled water is to keep to cost down and/or because it is good enough.

[webwit]

Geekhack is behind. Me and sixty seem to be the only two Westerners on the Korean forums, we've been spying them and know our stuff. Geekhack is now finally getting into the ergoclears. I already know what will be hot next year on geekhack!

[The Solutor]

This thread started to resemble embarrassingly, the discussions about the signal cables at the end of the HIFI golden era.

[gore]

This thread started to resemble embarrassingly, the discussions about the signal cables at the end of the HIFI golden era.

I find using oxygen free keycaps gives a warmer typing experience on the home row...

[RiGS]

One gallon (3.785l) of concentrated RO-59tm KT (Key Tronic) costs 50000 yen from this source, which is 450 EUR. Probably cheaper from the US, but I don't see this type listed there.

Perhaps I should buy a gallon and release a Deskthority RO-59 in cute little containers.

It is available pre-diluted in 260ml bottle.
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... usage.html
It costs around 29€ + shipping from Japan.
Basically this can be divided into ten 26ml or thirteen 20ml containers to spread the costs similarly like the IO-aid.

I think a group buy is a safe & cheap way to try this mystical spooge.

[TexasFlood]

I wonder what Korean for "spooge is"?

Wasn't spooge that druggie whose girlfriend crushed his head with an ATM machine on the Breaking Bad Peekaboo episode? Guess it also means any sealant or lubricant applied during the assembly of electronic equipment, among other things. Thanks for posting all these products, I am not familiar with most of them, gotta read up a bit I guess.

[ripster]

Wow. Necro post.

I've moved on to RO-59.
http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeybo ... sion_what/