[Project] A 58-key mini keyboard, with a missing column!

[Soarer]

I've been on the verge of getting some PCBs made for this for far too long. I'm sure it won't be the final version, so I'll end up getting more made with minor changes whatever I do!

The main idea is that there's one less column on the rhs, so enter is closer and shift is a symmetrical reach. Otherwise it's deliberately 'standard' in most respects (and where it isn't, it still tries to use available sizes of keycaps).

My indecisions revolve around the Fn and Shift pairs - maybe swap them?
And the space bar - maybe split it into two or three sections?

But whatever, I should just get on, get some PCBs made and see where it takes me

Pay little attention to the legends (particularly on the left side, the Fn layer stuff will most likely go on keys nearer the centre and/or clustered around the home row). Imagine it with blanks...

UltraMini1d_w-silk.png (103.17 KiB) Viewed 9592 times

[Minskleip]

You can try splitting the spacebar in such a way that you can choose whether you want to have space and back space or just regular space. A split space bar is highly recommended!

[Soarer]

Well I am tempted to try a split spacebar... it's a shame it's not possible to make a single PCB that copes with both configurations

[Minskleip]

What about making enough switch holes for X switches without stabilisers, in addition to the regular stabilised space bar?

[Soarer]

That would work for 2 switches, I'll do that! At least I'd be able to try it and see if I'd like it

[Minskleip]

Good luck! All boards should have that hehe.

[Soarer]

Thanks! The luck is holding so far - even the extra stabilizers fit!!

So the choice is either a single 6-key wide spacebar, or two 3-key wide bars... now then, where do I get 3-key wide spacebars and stabilizers?!

UltraMini1e_space_choice.png (25.06 KiB) Viewed 9558 times

[Minskleip]

R4! Or maybe SP can't make that advanced stuff.. What about having three double width (covers two switches) keys instead? You wouldn't have to use the middle one.

[Soarer]

The shiny spot on my spacebar is below 'N' - so that counts out the three double width bars for me at least! I think it would start to feel cramped anyway. Also, the PCB layout wouldn't work for double width keys with stabilizers. It would work if each bar had two actual switches (POS style), but that's a fairly nasty 'feel'. I might as well put them on as an option though, as six independant switches, and let the firmware sort it out

I'm pretty sure SP can do 1x2 and 1x3 spacebars, but whether they get the stems in the right positions is another matter!

[kbdfr]

The shiny spot on my spacebar is below 'N' - so that counts out the three double width bars for me at least! I think it would start to feel cramped anyway. Also, the PCB layout wouldn't work for double width keys with stabilizers. It would work if each bar had two actual switches (POS style), but that's a fairly nasty 'feel'. I might as well put them on as an option though, as six independant switches, and let the firmware sort it out

I'm pretty sure SP can do 1x2 and 1x3 spacebars, but whether they get the stems in the right positions is another matter!

With a double width keycap over two switches in POS style, you just have to remove the spring from one of the switches. If your keycap has a corresponding stem, the switch will act as a stabilizer without adding to the activation force required for the other ("active") one. It moves up and down with the keycap, but only "guides" it on its way and is sort of a "slave" of the keycap.

And modding a keycap so as to have the stem in the right place is no great matter. No need for any complicated device like ripster described on GH, an old keyboard will do.

[Soarer]

With a double width keycap over two switches in POS style, you just have to remove the spring from one of the switches. If your keycap has a corresponding stem, the switch will act as a stabilizer without adding to the activation force required for the other ("active") one. It moves up and down with the keycap, but only "guides" it on its way and is sort of a "slave" of the keycap.

That's true, but it doesn't 'balance' the key cap like a proper stabilizer would. As long as you're mostly hitting the end with the sprung switch I guess it would be acceptable though.

And modding a keycap so as to have the stem in the right place is no great matter. No need for any complicated device like ripster described on GH, an old keyboard will do.

I modified a Cherry spacebar to fit a Filco, and used the Filco as a jig But, if I pay for some keycaps to be made, I should not expect to have to mod them!

[kbdfr]

That's true, but it doesn't 'balance' the key cap like a proper stabilizer would. As long as you're mostly hitting the end with the sprung switch I guess it would be acceptable though.

More than that. On my Tipro I even have only one stem for the (double width) backspace keycap, because I did not want to alter anything to the keyboard itself. The stem sits on the left switch and there is no connection at all between the right switch and the keycap. Now when I hit the key just above the right switch, there is just a very slight difference from hitting it above the left switch. It's only when hitting it at the very right end that I have to really force it down.

(...) But, if I pay for some keycaps to be made, I should not expect to have to mod them!

Don't buy anything. Just use NumPad0 or Backspace keycaps (with erased lettering), depending on the profile you prefer

[Soarer]

But, but... my thumbs prefer the convex spacebar profile, and maybe the twin 1x3 option

Good to hear the double-switch option works out well though - I will put that into the PCB design, and give it a try.

[Minskleip]

Double width keys with two fully functional keys are not that bad. A bit stiff, but the thumbs have more power!

[Soarer]

The plane is full, it must be time to take to the air!

UltraMini1f_silks.png (33.59 KiB) Viewed 9478 times

[Minskleip]

Cool! How big are those pin1 screw holes?

[Soarer]

Mounting holes are 2mm. I'm thinking of using allen-headed bolts and spacers (o-rings maybe) to mount it on an aluminium backplate, for the first one anyway, just to make it usable!

[kbdfr]

Why didn't I notice that before?
A 1x3 spacebar fitting exactly 3 regular Cherry switches does exist:





Here is where I got the keyboard from:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300570457658

[Soarer]

Ah yes, thanks! I knew those spacebars must exist somewhere, there's Cherry part numbers for the 1x3 stabilizers in the datasheet

I've found one place that sells the stabilizers, but anyway it would be pretty simple to adapt those of a different width if I got some suitable wire.

[kbdfr]

Wouldn't it be better, instead of stabilizers, to use three switches under each 1x3 spacebar, removing the springs from the left and the right one? They will then act exactly as stabilizers do.
This would allow to reconfigurate the keyboard anytime by inserting springs again. So instead of 3+3 you could have for example 2+2+2 or 1+2+2+1 or 1+4+1...

[Soarer]

Certainly worth a try! Of course the PCB allows for that already It wouldn't be quite the same as a stabilizer because there wouldn't be the metal bar linking the two sides, so it probably would feel a bit different - perhaps more different with a heavy switch than a lighter one.

[Findecanor]

Are you planning to use a centered <Caps Lock> key for <Enter> and a <Space> bar from a G80-1800 with win keys?
Let me suggest that you let the arrow keys emit symbols for the arrow cluster, and not for the numeric key pad. Arrows and keypad-arrows are not treated equal in all programs and OSs.

About, the extra symbols on Q, W, A, S, etc.. do you intend to do them with <Fn> so that they represent the keys they replace, or do you intend to customize the keymap on the host? If I were making a custom keymap on the host and did not have to care about scan codes, then I would assign them to keys based on mnemonics. For instance A for @, H for #, etc.
BTW, in German layout @ is on Q and µ is on M, with legends for these combos on the keys.

[Soarer]

Are you planning to use a centered <Caps Lock> key for <Enter> and a <Space> bar from a G80-1800 with win keys?

Yes, enter is that size... the blank sets from the GH R3 GB had both styles of caps lock, so that's why caps is offset and enter isn't . 2 full sets + an extra modifier set gets enough keys for three of these boards. I ordered that combo for both clear and black blanks, so I can make six! Space bars are a problem, since SP did the 1x6 wrongly, and now there's the 1x3 and 1x2 options on the PCB... but yes, the original 1x6 is the same as a modern G8x-1800.

Let me suggest that you let the arrow keys emit symbols for the arrow cluster, and not for the numeric key pad. Arrows and keypad-arrows are not treated equal in all programs and OSs.

Good point, I'll do that. I'm not intending to include any 'numlock on' mode either, although I might add some of the numpad keys (*, +, enter etc) into the unused positions in the function layer (useful for macros / key assignments in apps etc).

About, the extra symbols on Q, W, A, S, etc.. do you intend to do them with <Fn> so that they represent the keys they replace, or do you intend to customize the keymap on the host? If I were making a custom keymap on the host and did not have to care about scan codes, then I would assign them to keys based on mnemonics. For instance A for @, H for #, etc.
BTW, in German layout @ is on Q and µ is on M, with legends for these combos on the keys.

This is something I will have to experiment with. At first, the easiest is to simply do them as keys. But using a keymap opens up a lot of possibilities - I think I would locate them based on frequency of use by a C++ programmer

[mbodrov]

Soarer, how much are they charging you to make the PCB? I researched some companies a while ago but they all were quite expensive for small runs.

[Soarer]

$127.56 for six - setup costs are about $85 of that - each additional PCB is only $7.11. That's from pcbwing with a 10-day turnaround, solder resist both sides, no silk screen. Lead-free adds about 20 to 25%. Re-ordering exactly the same design after the first run halves the setup cost.

It helps that this is a relatively small PCB (260mm x 98mm), but even so, it's not exactly 'cheap'!

[7bit]

Fixed that for you:

[pyro]

ಠ_ಠ that doesn't look right at all. space on a pinky? and no use of thumbs at all? soarer's latest design makes a lot more sense. even more if it's programmable.

[Soarer]

Oh no, that's definitely not fixed. Unless you mean it's had a 'fix'?!

Alas, poor Symmetry, I knew him... and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is!

Sliding the home row across by 1/4 key is surely a no-no for touch typists.
(I took liberty enough doing that with the number row...).

No right shift... no right anything for that matter! ;-p

And where would one find a 1.5x home-row key for Enter?!

[Soarer]

[jackdesk]

Just registered to comment (there's got to be a better way).

I really like this concept, but I think you need to rethink which keys need to be put on the second layer.
Certainly from a programmers/sysadmin point of view, things like full-stop/period, forward slash, pipe, are quite important keys and should be on the primary layer. It might be more logical to have the various parentheses layered. ie [ and ], { and } all on the same key. perhaps < and > layered. The + and - keys are used to zoom in and out for many apps, so they should be convenient.
And so on.
I'm sure I've seen "heat maps" of keyboard layouts for different uses which would give you an idea of what keys would be used less and best to put on a layer.
And you still have caps lock, what a waste!! just double-tap shift to lock, or fn-shift to lock.