Scottish Independence

[Muirium]

Ah, election night. I remember when these used to be so boring. The BBC's predicting 58 seats for the SNP right now, which is "a wee bit high" given the fact there's only 59 in Scotland! But they're also predicting the Tories stay #1 in England, while the Liberals deservedly meltdown. That leaves things very sticky indeed. The English want Cameron, and the Scots want Cameron's head on a pike? This will end well!

[andrewjoy]

if the scots want his head on a plate they should have voted labour.

in our system you have to use voteing tactics

in labour held seats a vote for SNP is a vote for that horrible tory basted

[Muirium]

Sure. Labour's so left wing and really, truly gives a shit about us up here. Iraq? Never happened. Tuition fees… invented by the SNP surely. Etc.

Fortunately we're not stuck for choice here. The SNP weren't even my first! You should see how rabid left our Greens are! Besides, my MP's a Liberal. I'm pleased to knock him down. The pillock.

[Muirium]

Remember those yellow maps? It's currently coming true…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015 ... s/scotland

Including Gordon Brown's one: Labour's safest seat in all of Scotland! Gone. And not even close.

Aaaand their current leader. Not any more! The Nationalists came from dead last there. It's surreal.

England, meanwhile, is merrily voting Tory with a dash of UKIP. Yeah, we've got a long future ahead of us in this old marriage.


The result at the end of the night. See if you can spot the border…

Landslide.jpg (316.57 KiB) Viewed 4727 times

A pretty united kingdom, right?

[andrewjoy]

Its another example of why our political system is broken and how if you want something you have to use tactics. In an ideal world you would vote and you would get representation based on the percentage of votes that party got not the number of seats. We also need a system where you rank the parties in order.

I think many people in scotland voted with their heart and not there head for the SNP and many people in england short a few chromosomes who where labor voters voted for UKIP because the think the dam foreigners are stealing there jobs. If we had a system where you rank your preference then most people who voted SNP would put labour or lib den second and 3rd and conservatives a distinct last, same for the seats won by the other fringe parties.

Problem with our system is if you don't vote against the party you hate by voting for the second biggest party ( ignore anyone who says its no longer a 2 party system because it is ) your vote is essentially wasted and all you have done is help the people you hate get in.

[seebart]

The german press is calling Nicola Sturgeon "the scottish lioness" and the SNP the real winner of this election. Interesting results in this vote. Ed Miliband and his people certainly have little to celebrate.

[andrewjoy]

Ed is a joke, he never should have been elected leader , his brother was a better choice. Myself i say bring tony back, just forget about that little war thing .

It started when Gordon Brown accepted the leadership, good chancellor terrible leader

[seebart]

Ed is a joke, he never should have been elected leader , his brother was a better choice. Myself i say bring tony back, just forget about that little war thing .

It started when Gordon Brown accepted the leadership, good chancellor terrible leader

right and you got whacky Boris Johnson calling himself the next PM already.

[andrewjoy]

borris is a tool , i think he only got elected mayor of london as a joke

5 more years of the tory crap and we will have another 1997 on our hands

[Muirium]

I hope you don't seriously believe that. Labour's looking permanently fucked. They got beat again by a weak, split Tory vote. And they couldn't even pick up the Liberal exodus quicker than UKIP! Or return their bloody chancellor. Good grief!



Fun fact: if every seat in Scotland went Labour last night instead, all 59 of them!, the Tories would still have a majority and win the election. That's why we want out.

The BBC had a good map where every seat was the same physical size. I'll put it here when I can find it online. It makes the point perfectly. So much Tory blue down south. The UK belongs to the south of England. You poor bastards in Liverpool are just as irrelevant as us Scots at deciding who runs the place. Neither of us ever voted for Cameron, or Thatcher. But what did we get yet again? Surprise!

[photekq]

Myself i say bring tony back

I'll pretend I didn't read that..

[Muirium]

The man knew how to win elections.

Wars, well, not so much.

[seebart]

I can't argue British politics, or Scottish politics for that matter. But it's clear there's a change brewing in Scotland, not so in the UK. Seems more like a lack of opposition. Like we have here. Merkel runs the show without any serious competitor showing up.

[photekq]

Seems more like a lack of opposition.

Soon. Soon.

[Muirium]

One Tory win I liked: the one that beat that smug bastard!

Farage is the acceptable face of UKIP, which is the acceptable face of Xenophobia in Britain. Any setback for him is good news for the millions of fine people who live here who aren't white or were born abroad. The media must be annoyed he failed to triumph. They adore the kippers to bits. Constant story!

Mind, the EU referendum will keep Nige in the public eye. What if England votes to leave while Scotland votes to stay in?

[photekq]

One Tory win I liked: the one that beat that smug bastard!

Farage is the acceptable face of UKIP, which is the acceptable face of Xenophobia in Britain. Any setback for him is good news for the millions of fine people who live here who aren't white or were born abroad. The media must be annoyed he failed to triumph. They adore the kippers to bits. Constant story!

Mind, the EU referendum will keep Nige in the public eye. What if England votes to leave while Scotland votes to stay in?

I don't have any strong opinions about UKIP and I don't support them (although I do agree with some of their policies). In fact, I don't have any strong feelings about any of the parties except the Green party, which is absolutely horrific.

That said, I don't understand why you call UKIP Xenophobic. Is it because they want to leave the EU? Is it because of what some of their idiotic members have said?

Watching Nigel constantly harp on about immigration, and say poorly phrased things about Romanians living down the road and people speaking other languages on the train is pretty tiring, but I would not call him a Xenophobe. I would just call him an idiot for phrasing those points in such an awful way. I understood what he was trying to say, but what he said was entirely different.

Putting aside their controversial topics - EU and immigration, they have a well rounded and thought out manifesto. I think they're too quickly dismissed by many people, and branded as things that they aren't.

That said, I disagree strongly with some of their policies, and probably would not vote for them. I'm happy to see them start to reach a point where they could possibly contest the big 2 though.

[andrewjoy]

the thing is he is totally fine with imagination from the commonwealth.

Someone needs to tell him that the empire is gone and nothing is bringing it back, we are no longer a world superpower and we need to work with our euro buddies to improve our lot for all of Europe fucking creepy racist old fart.


EDIT
He has said one thing i agree with, stop subsidising higher spending in Scotland ( sorry mu) and make it fair for the whole of the UK.

[photekq]

we are no longer a world superpower and we need to work with our euro buddies to improve our lot for all of Europe

Well at the moment the EU isn't doing much to improve Europe. It's mostly just helping the US to tear Syria and other countries apart in order to boost the petrodollar.

[Muirium]

And so the kippers came dead last in Scotland. Behind the Scottish Greens (you'd love them Photekq, even more outspoken!) and even the melting remains of the Lib Dems. They campaigned on Fuck You, Scotland up here too! "Brave."

If you don't sense the scent of racism about them, you've not been around for long. It takes time to learn subtext. Even as fishy as Ukip's.

"Enoch Powell was right!"

[andrewjoy]

we are no longer a world superpower and we need to work with our euro buddies to improve our lot for all of Europe

Well at the moment the EU isn't doing much to improve Europe. It's mostly just helping the US to tear Syria and other countries apart in order to boost the petrodollar.

simple , make it all one country and let deskthoirty rule it ! Mechanical Keyboards for all, we work togther better than the EU parliament anyway

[seebart]

Mind, the EU referendum will keep Nige in the public eye. What if England votes to leave while Scotland votes to stay in?

That's a really good question. A scenario I'd like to see.

[Muirium]

The kicker: that referendum is promised just a year after the SNP's likely massive win in the Scottish Parliament next spring. All while Cameron's walking on a tightrope. With no reliable majority. I'd hate to be a unionist right now.

My opinions on the EU are all about how easy it makes Scottish independence. The institution is just as much of a mess as you'd expect from way too many countries agreeing about much too little. Whatever. Give us some Euros! And immigrants please.

[photekq]

That said, I don't understand why you call UKIP Xenophobic. Is it because they want to leave the EU? Is it because of what some of their idiotic members have said?

If you don't sense the scent of racism about them, you've not been around for long. It takes time to learn subtext. Even as fishy as Ukip's.

So I take it that it is mostly the comments of the members & leaders that makes you say that, and not their stance on the EU? Or is it a bit of both?

"Enoch Powell was right!"

No! Mosley was!

[Muirium]

Here's some homework: take a look at one of Europe's racist party's manifestos. They all play the same game. "Local jobs for local people." Never "Burn the migrants!" It's how these things are done in politics.

Just to Godwin for a moment: even Hitler never promised to murder the Jews. Merely "deport" them. Politics is the art of misdirection.

[andrewjoy]

things would be allot simpler if it was a dictatorship

and i was the dictator

[seebart]

You want Euros and immigrants Mu? Joining the EU will give Scotland plenty of both. After a while it may not seem so rewarding anymore! Mark my words.
And then some form of new school Scottish nationalists start pronouncing the "good old EU free times"!

[Muirium]

Yup. And if we're independent we can actually leave. Unlike the last 40 years where London never bothered to ask!

I pity you Germans: not allowed referendums by the constitution the U.S. wrote for you after the war. But then the rest of Europe does truly benefit from all your money!

[seebart]

True, there's a juicy NSA-BND "affair" going right now that's pretty nasty for Merkel. Were like the little cousin of the US. Don't act up and we'll take care of you. And when your an EU member you have to deal with Brussels retarded laws and ideas. Can't ignore the giant paper tiger then. It's got to be fead with billions.

[Muirium]

We buy your cars. You bail our banks. Euro pro quo, as they say.

Note to self: establish keyboard bank and prepare for the next bust.

[seebart]

Right but the Greek didn't even want to be bailed. I'm sure they still like BMW etc. But the whole thing is a mess. Chzel will tell you.