F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

jbondeson · 01 Jul 2015, 14:34

What's your intent with respect to the final files (open source/proprietary) for various parts? You've clearly put quite a bit of work into this so it certainly wouldn't be crazy for you to try and turn this into a business ala Gon.

I'm not a huge can of the classic model f form factors but I do like the feel of the switches. So if getting an F77 means one step closer to an SSK style model F I'm totally in.

vivalarevolución · 01 Jul 2015, 14:49

Also, if you are going to start from scratch on this, perhaps it would be a good idea to eliminate some of the dead space on the case of these. The sides seem to have lots of extra space, as does the bottom lip.

andrewjoy · 01 Jul 2015, 14:54

I think i would prefer the thing to look as close as possible to the original

Muirium · 01 Jul 2015, 14:57

I'd like to see the options!

The original boards are a masterpiece of compactness compared to the XT and other Fs. But Xwhatsit's controller is much smaller than the original PCB, which opens up a lot of space to play with up top at least.

hammelgammler · 01 Jul 2015, 15:16

vivalarevolución wrote: Also, if you are going to start from scratch on this, perhaps it would be a good idea to eliminate some of the dead space on the case of these. The sides seem to have lots of extra space, as does the bottom lip.

That's kind of a really nice idea!
A F77 without dead space on the sides and on the bottom would be great, kind of like a HHKB case.
Obviously the weight will be not as much as the original, but it would still have that beefy metal case.

But that original case just looks so good, but it's unpractical.

vivalarevolución · 01 Jul 2015, 15:45

andrewjoy wrote: I think i would prefer the thing to look as close as possible to the original

My thinking is that if the opportunity to improve the design is there, and someone is willing to take in the project, improve it while you can. I can guarantee that people will buy this in droves, whether the case is as close to the original or more compact.

Anyways, this isn't my project, Ellipse can do what he wants.

SL89 · 01 Jul 2015, 15:48

This is a very ambitious project, should it end up happening, I'd be down for an F62 or F77.

@Muirium, are you thinking of putting some other fun stuff inside the case?

fohat · 01 Jul 2015, 15:50

vivalarevolución wrote:
My thinking is that if the opportunity to improve the design is there, and someone is willing to take in the project, improve it while you can.

I am inclined to agree.

Cut through the noise and I think that the consensus is that what the majority of people would really want is a Model F in the conventional Model M configurations: full-size or SSK.

A metal case would be an awesome bonus, as would native USB. And yes, shaving off about an inch all the way around would be very desirable.

jbondeson · 01 Jul 2015, 16:26

I completely understand the sentiment of modernizing the keyboard (hell that's what I'm hoping for long term), but from a risk mitigation angle it may make more sense to do a full on reproduction as then you have a well known yard stick to compare to.

I'd go one further and say Ellipse should focus on a single model either the F62 or F77 for the first run. Prove out the designs and then move from there.

This is a very ambitious project with many potential pitfalls, so I would think minimizing risk for Rev A should be a priority.

rsbseb · 01 Jul 2015, 16:51

I currently have tooling for barrels in process and flippers pending if it helps out with this venture

Ellipse · 01 Jul 2015, 18:37

Yes revenge I plan on making extra barrels and flippers.

Viva - I have considered trimming the case to cut costs but my intention is to keep the F62/F77 as original as possible. The extra space may hold a solenoid driver and solenoid (not sure if it would fit) or buzzer for those inclined.

Rsbseb - that may cut costs a lot but the tooling is only as good as whoever did the CAD modeling for you and the micrometer he used (no offense intended!). Please tell us more about your process. For example a 3D laser scan would not make as accurate a part as you need to measure many barrels to determine required tolerance and the mean values for each measurement. Have you already spent thousands on the tooling or are you just in conversation with the factory? If not it may make sense to combine projects (I can have a few thousand extras made). Are you making springs? Are you taking care of the electroplating of your flippers? We can discuss over PM if you prefer.

jbondesen - given plastic mold/ tooling costs it makes sense to offer both and generate as many orders as possible to pass along the lowest cost. Of course it depends on interest in each model.

rsbseb · 01 Jul 2015, 19:29

I am the manufacturer and all the measurements are done by hand with at least two sets of calipers and two sets of eyes on multiple samples. I have complete control over quality and will not send out parts that won't function properly .

As far as springs go I do not make springs but if I recall wcass indicated they were available through a source he knew of.

I plan on keeping model F components in stock for both restoration and custom projects so there will not be a MOQ related to their production. (Barrels and flippers)

beltet · 01 Jul 2015, 22:31

Wow! Will follow this with interest!

HAL · 01 Jul 2015, 22:38

Oh yes! I am in for an F72

chzel · 01 Jul 2015, 22:43

F72?
or F67?

Edit: Oh, and I am interested too!

jbondeson · 01 Jul 2015, 22:48

or the classic F26!

Who needs anything more than the alphas?

chzel · 01 Jul 2015, 23:00

OMG the F-steno will become a reality!

Norman_ · 02 Jul 2015, 02:59

Highly interested in how this turns out

Will strongly consider a 62 key if my finances turn out as well as i'm hoping this will

Air tree · 02 Jul 2015, 03:12

I have put down my interest. I'm going to have to try and put away some money for this thing. The kish is pretty high up there on my dream keyboard list!

joc · 02 Jul 2015, 03:33

Impressive work Ellipse! I'm definitely interested.

I would like to see a 4x5 "mini-kish" that could be used as a numeric/macro keypad - too bad the tooling costs would probably cause it to be priced the same as the F62/F77.

XMIT · 02 Jul 2015, 03:53

Sign me up for an F77! It would be amazing if you could pull this off. It would be even better if you could release the PCB and CAD files to maybe let folks make them here in the US. But anything is a start!

modology · 02 Jul 2015, 05:32

sweet. I'm sold. take my money and get this done

modology · 02 Jul 2015, 05:38

Have you considered to create Kickstarter campaign for crowd funding?

Ellipse · 02 Jul 2015, 05:45

XMIT - I sent out RFQs to a few US suppliers as well. If I find any interesting comparisons in pricing I will share. I know that for my RFQs for the xwhatsit Model F USB controllers, some US suppliers wanted around four times the price for the same PCBs as my contacts in China.

modology - yes I have thought about it. It may happen in the future. But wouldn't anyone who knows about using Model F's have to have come across GH/DT/Reddit to find out about Soarer's converter or xwhatsit's controller? Plus we save 5% or so in fees by going direct.

modology · 02 Jul 2015, 06:09

I think the pen holder bracket is quite useless. Is it possible to reduce the size of the case and make the bottom bit even up with rest of the case ( i meant the front panel, there is a section got taped in under Spacebar row ---> it looks kind of odd and ugly ).

Air tree · 02 Jul 2015, 06:18

I'm sure you'll get some more attention once you post on GH once it's up. I have noticed quite a few people looking out for a kish.

samuelnsh · 02 Jul 2015, 08:40

Have been shopping for a used IBM Model F 83-key for the past few days, then I saw this! Filled out the form for the F77 version

Nuum · 02 Jul 2015, 09:59

Awesome! I'm in for sure, just have to decide between F62 and F77 and somehow get the funds for this. Would it be possible to just order the case and inner assembly without barrels, springs, flippers and keycaps once the parts are ready?

scottc · 02 Jul 2015, 10:13

Nuum wrote: Awesome! I'm in for sure, just have to decide between F62 and F77 and somehow get the funds for this. Would it be possible to just order the case and inner assembly without barrels, springs, flippers and keycaps once the parts are ready?

+1, I would much prefer a board in this state.

pyrelink · 02 Jul 2015, 23:42

I think a decent amount of us would be able to supply our own keycaps, barrels, and pivot plates/springs. If that could help reduce costs, I would much prefer to buy in pieces like that.

Oh and Andy: I can tell by your youtube profile image that you are a fellow Darksouls "fan"

Really nice looking fan you have there.