[Interest Check] Silencing Rings for Topre RF or HHKB

[TheNacho]

@Muirium: That looks nice! I hope my dampers will arrive soon. Anyone got a review on a silenced FC660C yet?

[colomb]

@TheNacho: I made a terrible .m4a recording of the silenced NT with my phone, although it appears DT doesn't allow that file type to be uploaded. You can find it and a quick write up at geekhack.org in the keyboard section.

[Muirium]

I made a comparison video of my damped and stock NovaTouches, vs a Realforce and HHKB Type-S:

Damped NovaTouch vs. Topre Realforce and HHKB

It's five minutes long and I walk through the details on each board, zipping back and forth so you can hear what I'm on about. Well, if you can understand my quick talking Scottish accent!

[kudosgodspeed]

Hey Hypershere,

These silencing rings look amazing. When the interest check initially went up, I wanted to get in on 300+ units. Before pulling the trigger on eBay, I was wondering if you were flexible with pricing based on volume purchased. Your response would be greatly appreciated

[Hypersphere]

Hey Hypershere,

These silencing rings look amazing. When the interest check initially went up, I wanted to get in on 300+ units. Before pulling the trigger on eBay, I was wondering if you were flexible with pricing based on volume purchased. Your response would be greatly appreciated

Thank you for your interest. It has indeed been gratifying to see that the rings have been working out well for people. I am using them myself in my modded HHKB (55g domes and silencing rings).

Unfortunately, the price is based on the production costs of the rings that have already been produced in the first batch, and so I need to keep the price per ring the same regardless of how many are sold to any given person.

At this point, most of the rings have been sold, but if there is sufficient interest, I will consider a second run, for which the costs will likely be the same or possibly even a bit more than the current run (depending on the number produced).

[kudosgodspeed]

Thanks for the well written response. I went ahead and purchased a few sets today. I'm always happy to support community members. I look forward to receiving my order soon

[Hypersphere]

Update:

As of this morning (8 August 2015), there is only one set of rings remaining (a pack of 90 rings, suitable for a TKL board).

I will be traveling for a few days and work is heating up again, but as soon as I can, I will run another interest check and then decide whether or not to produce another batch of silencing rings.

[chedda7]

I just bought your last pack of 90 and would like to be the first to express interest in more packs

[TheNacho]

I have an FC660 that needs some silencing too, but I couldnt afford that in the next weeks. Just expressing further interest.

[Hypersphere]

I will produce another batch of rings. The only question is how many to make. After I return from travel, I might post a sign-up sheet to reassess interest.

[Muirium]

With an eye to a European GB to save on shipping and customs fees!

[mtl]

Is there anything that can be done to get the cost down? Different suppliers, materials, manufacturers, etc.? I noticed you already mentioned that production volume is not a factor.

[cookie]

Nice work! How thick are they? In mm?
I am interested

[ramnes]

Any comparison with the EK pads mod?

[Air tree]

If I can get my hands on a set; if there are going to be any more, I'll do a little review comparing the two methods.

And I'll try to get up a nice quality sound comparison.

[cookie]

Problem is, everything thicker than 0,5mm will affect the travel too much
I haven't found adequate material till now... I am wondering what this actually is?

Edit: uhhh 75 cent per ring is ridiculous.... no thanks buddy

[Muirium]

The thickness is just right. Thinner than your dampers (which I've got inside the same keyboard) and very flexible. They're made of something quite tough though, teflon coated I think, so I reckon they'll last for years.

That's what makes them quite expensive too. Especially with European shipping taxes on top! Which is why I keep murmuring about a GB.

[cookie]

That is quite understandeble, but seriously, they are too expensive

I'd be interested in a GB too but I doubt that the price will drop below 15€ (That would be maximum I am willing to pay for this).

[macmakkara]

Material is poron urethane 0.5mm sheets IF im correct.

[Khers]

Edit: uhhh 75 cent per ring is ridiculous.... no thanks buddy

If this is with regards to the EK landing pads, the idea is that you iron them flat (I haven't done this myself so I don't know exactly how flat they become) but they aren't 75% of the travel afterwards.

[Air tree]

Could there be any other middle ground material that could lower the cost? If we just iron down landing pads and get a pretty good result, then surely we could find a cheaper material that could act similar at a lower price?

[cookie]

Despite the facte that EK is ridiculously overpriced, ironing down landing pads won't grant an even result and there is too much work included. The thinnest material I've found so far is a 0,5mm sponge from a Tabletennis bat. Unfortunately it is quite stiff

[Hypersphere]

I've started the process of producing another batch of silencing rings. Although there are some economies of scale, the costs of premium materials and precision laser cutting are high. For example, if only 100 rings were made at a time, the cost per ring would be $1.95. I haven't tried to calculate my own R&D costs, but I spent a considerable amount of time trying out a number of different materials and cutting methods, which also involved costs for acquiring cutting tools.

Another way of looking at it is the cost of buying a standard versus silenced keyboard. Silent RF keyboards are no longer available, at least in the USA. The cost differential for a Type-S vs standard HHKB is currently $84 or $1.40 per key (based on current sale prices). For non-sale prices the differential is $88 or about $1.46 per key.

Of course, the price differential of a Type-S vs standard HHKB includes the installation costs of the rings, whereas a DIY silencing requires the end-user to install the rings himself. Even if this were to cut the cost in half, this would work out to 70 to 73 cents per ring.

I have already searched long and hard for the best material and cutting method for silencing rings for Topre switches, and I would not want to compromise quality by trying to use a cheaper material or cutting method.

Other costs include the cut that eBay takes. I've discussed the situation with my wife, who is handling the eBay sales, and despite the drawbacks of eBay, unfortunately neither she nor I has the time to use alternative sales and distribution methods.

With these considerations in mind, I regret it is probably not going to be possible to reduce costs of the rings themselves. This leaves import taxes and shipping as the other contributions to the cost for the end-user. I have thought of mechanisms such as a Group Buy or using a proxy, but unfortunately I would not have the time to organize and implement these methods.

For the second batch of rings, I will try my best to cut costs without compromising quality, but I anticipate that it will not be possible to reduce the cost by much if at all.

It will take some time to produce the next batch of silencing rings, but I will post an update when they are ready.

Thanks to all for your understanding, patience, and support!

[amospalla]

Thank you very much Hypershpere for all this investment, it is something we can take profit of, and these things have to be paid, my opinion. I already bought two units of the most expensive keyboards on the earth, if I want to improve them with silencing pads I again want them to be the best. Obviously for this to happen somebody has to evaluate the options, and that has a price.

[mtl]

Hypersphere, thanks for all the thought and work you put into this, and for breaking it all down.

[pyrelink]

While they are expensive, they work perfectly. Compromising quality would almost certainly impact their performance heavily. Depending on when you get more sets produced I will probably pick up a could more sets (as I see multiple new Topre boards in my future).

[XMIT]

Hi Hypershpere - I've found that selling large numbers of items via direct Paypal invoice works quite well. I think there is a way to create a link that someone will click, that allows them to just pay for an invoice. You still get the handy shipping features of Paypal (like: auto calculated shipping, ability to print First Class Mail postage, etc.), but without eBay's 10% tithe. I see the eBay fee as a finder's fee - something we don't need here since everything originated here on the forum.

For a while I was selling geekhack laminted mats for $5 each. It was a net win by a few cents: PayPal's fee plus the discounted meter mail rate for a 3oz package was less than the posted 3oz rate - and this saved me a trip to the Post Office.

At higher volumes you can think about opening a stamps.com account and accepting direct credit card payments but PayPal works great for small-ish volumes like the Keypocalypse sales.

(Note that you *don't* get FedEx discounted through PayPal, and FedEx is almost always the cheapest way to mail a keyboard.)

Good luck.

[XMIT]

Oh - and it sounds like you are lucky to have an understanding and supportive MrsHypershpere. Tell her "thank you".

[barkweed]

The price is high but understandable (and expected). I've been longing to silence my Novatouch since second 1, and these rings obviously work well, so I'm definitely willing to pay. With my recent luck, I'll probably get hit with 25% VAT + customs fee + handling fee, but that's life.

[Muirium]

They're worth the money on a NovaTouch. That board needs them badly.

Hopefully we can keep things sane with a European GB. I'd run it if I wasn't here in a place just as crazy as Sweden for aggressive import taxes. But with someone in Germany or wherever, we should be able to get these rings to people at closer to the American price Hyper's selling them for.