NMB RT-102 review (clicky Space Invaders)

[Chyros]

At first I thought I could just do a 1 min video showing some differences between this and my 8255 but as it turns out there was quite a lot to say so I did a proper review . Hope you enjoy it!

[Muirium]

(Error. In embed and directly at youtube's page.)

[Chyros]

Uhhh, is it fixed now? It's working for me Oo .

[scottc]

Argh, I need a Space Invader board. Stop reminding me, Chyros! Great review as usual.

What's that keyboard tester app you use? I use AquaKeyTest when on Windows but yours looks even better.

The YouTube embed always worked for me, for what it's worth...

[seebart]

Very nice, of course I want it even more now and I'll be grumpy if you decide to keep it. Taran don't look like serial killers BTW:

http://www.taran.co.uk/about-us/

[Muirium]

Maybe it doesn't like my iPhone or being in America. Odd, as I replayed Chyros helpful video on Alps switch maintenance on this very phone just recently.

I'll try again later. Maybe they haven't done the various re-encodes yet.

[seebart]

WOT? Everything working fine here.

[Muirium]

Reloaded. Still the same generic YouTube error.

Spoiler:

image.png (1.16 MiB) Viewed 6388 times

Besides this one instance, DT works pretty nicely on an iPhone Plus. I like my touch screens big!

Anyway, let's not make this about YouTube being lousy. I'm sure I'll see it eventually.

[seebart]

Just be happy you're not on the east coast right now...

Unbenannt.JPG (70.75 KiB) Viewed 6379 times

[Laser]

What's that keyboard tester app you use? I use AquaKeyTest when on Windows but yours looks even better.

I think it's the program made by EliteKeyboards, downloadable somewhere on their website.


Nice review

(No envy here, since I got a Space Invaders keyboard, aaand it's functional)

[Chyros]

Very nice, of course I want it even more now and I'll be grumpy if you decide to keep it. Taran don't look like serial killers BTW:

http://www.taran.co.uk/about-us/

Why the hell would an IT company go for an axe logo? Oo I'm still going with crazed murderers.

As for keeping it; I'll admit I really like it, but there's other stuff out there I want to buy and I have no money for them. Maybe beggars can't be choosers xD .

[Muirium]

C'mon. An axe is pretty cool. Nuff said.

Anywho, I just watched the vid on my Mac. (Still isn't working on my iPhone. Looks like YouTube effed up the mobile version. Which sounds more like something you'd expect back in the desktop Flash days. Did Google take every engineer away from them by now?) Yesterday I cleaned up and USB converted my similar NMB RT8255C+ so I was comparing the real board with your video while I watched. This one's a bit later, going by the single colour Numpad legends and the cheapskate absence of any front printing up on Pause/Break etc. But the caps themselves are still awesome, including the great beast of a PBT spacebar. I'll take some pictures, it's clearly a later member of the same family.

Seeing as I'm used to a super fancy one already, I find these NMBs a delight without any need to tinker beyond a cleanup and a USB job. The spacebar's fine! (I can well imagine what you make of typing on an XT.) NMB was even kind enough to spell out the Ground, +5V, Clock and Data lines on the PCB so I could solder them up to a Teensy good and quick. Works a treat. Quite refreshing, in fact, to be typing on something clicky for the first time in a month. It's been all HHKB the whole time I've been away from home until now.

Yeah, Black Space Invaders are a bloody treat! Everyone enamoured with MX blues or greens really needs to give these a try. They're the high standard I'm going to judge blue Alps against when I get the pieces to build my Alps 64.

Oh, speaking of Alps, what's all this about thin ABS bringing out the Alpsiness in them better? Mr.Interface loaned me a full set of 3D printed Alps to MX adapters for a while, and I found that Montereys with thick PBT (Granite in DSA profile) was a revelation on those switches compared to Monterey's typical set of thin ABS. Admittedly, Montereys aren't Alps. But all my Alps boards at the time were already PBT!

[Chyros]

Yeah, Black Space Invaders are a bloody treat! Everyone enamoured with MX blues or greens really needs to give these a try. They're the high standard I'm going to judge blue Alps against when I get the pieces to build my Alps 64.

Space Invaders are very nice, but IMO they really can't match blue Alps. There's more friction in Space Invaders due to the extreme stabilisation of their sliders, and they're a tad heavy for me.

Oh, speaking of Alps, what's all this about thin ABS bringing out the Alpsiness in them better? Mr.Interface loaned me a full set of 3D printed Alps to MX adapters for a while, and I found that Montereys with thick PBT (Granite in DSA profile) was a revelation on those switches compared to Monterey's typical set of thin ABS. Admittedly, Montereys aren't Alps. But all my Alps boards at the time were already PBT!

One of the great advantages of Alps IMO is their sound. It's very nice and, at least for me, unmatched by anything else I've tried so far. ABS gives switches a much bassier sound than PBT does, and thin ABS rings more than thick ABS does, reinforcing the sound (thick ABS dampens it more). With thin ABS (especially doubleshot), Alps get the best and fullest sound, I've found.

Thick PBT does sound better on SKCM Black/Late, though, but those switches are a whole different kettle of fish.

[seebart]

Very nice, of course I want it even more now and I'll be grumpy if you decide to keep it. Taran don't look like serial killers BTW:

http://www.taran.co.uk/about-us/

Why the hell would an IT company go for an axe logo? Oo I'm still going with crazed murderers.

Well it's a sharp precise handcrafted tool that symolized strengh and well errr... self-assertion?

As for keeping it; I'll admit I really like it, but there's other stuff out there I want to buy and I have no money for them. Maybe beggars can't be choosers xD .

At least you know it's going to a good home with many of it's Alps cousins etc...

One of the great advantages of Alps IMO is their sound. It's very nice and, at least for me, unmatched by anything else I've tried so far. ABS gives switches a much bassier sound than PBT does, and thin ABS rings more than thick ABS does, reinforcing the sound (thick ABS dampens it more). With thin ABS (especially doubleshot), Alps get the best and fullest sound, I've found. Thick PBT does sound better on SKCM Black/Late, though, but those switches are a whole different kettle of fish.

I'll admit there is a noticeable difference in sound depending on the type of keycap used, at least noticeable on my Focus FK-2002 which amounts to preference of course. I'll have to try different keycaps on my NTC KB-6151.

[Chyros]

At least you know it's going to a good home with many of it's Alps cousins etc...

Haha yes, very true xD .

[Chyros]

What's that keyboard tester app you use? I use AquaKeyTest when on Windows but yours looks even better.

I use Switch Hitter. It's very good.

[jacobolus]

Space Invaders are very nice, but IMO they really can't match blue Alps. There's more friction in Space Invaders due to the extreme stabilisation of their sliders, and they're a tad heavy for me.

This could be down to condition. When in mint condition, they’re pretty smooth.

The clicky black Hi-Teks I have are also not too stiff, softer than white Alps for sure; I had a tactile gray Hi-Tek board which used much stiffer springs though. Maybe there were differences over time? Or maybe additional friction from gritty switches is increasing the amount of force you need to press the keys?

Alternately, you might just be noticing that the spacebar is much too stiff. If you swap its spring with the one from some uncommonly used F row key, you might like the board better.

Edit: I watched your video, and saw you covered the spacebar spring. The stabilizer on 2.75u right shift is indeed a travesty, especially on heavily used boards, as the stabilizer wire tends to rub a little slot in the plastic and then become even less functional. I’m surprised that you had trouble with off-axis keypresses on the 1u keys though. Both linear and clicky Hi-Tek switches have some of the best stability in response to off-axis presses of any I’ve tried, much better than Alps SKCM or Cherry MX (they can’t compare to good condition hall effect switches or HaaTa’s prized “super Alps” board though). They press down smoothly every time, never sticking and not really adding noticeable amounts of extra friction. I suspect your experience might again be down to some grit inside or some abrasion on the plastic slider or housing.

[Laser]

I think just lubing the top of the white moving arm (that causes the click) could "un-stiffen" the switch.

[Chyros]

Space Invaders are very nice, but IMO they really can't match blue Alps. There's more friction in Space Invaders due to the extreme stabilisation of their sliders, and they're a tad heavy for me.

This could be down to condition. When in mint condition, they’re pretty smooth.

The clicky black Hi-Teks I have are also not too stiff, softer than white Alps for sure; I had a tactile gray Hi-Tek board which used much stiffer springs though. Maybe there were differences over time? Or maybe additional friction from gritty switches is increasing the amount of force you need to press the keys?

Alternately, you might just be noticing that the spacebar is much too stiff. If you swap its spring with the one from some uncommonly used F row key, you might like the board better.

Edit: I watched your video, and saw you covered the spacebar spring. The stabilizer on 2.75u right shift is indeed a travesty, especially on heavily used boards, as the stabilizer wire tends to rub a little slot in the plastic and then become even less functional. I’m surprised that you had trouble with off-axis keypresses on the 1u keys though. Both linear and clicky Hi-Tek switches have some of the best stability in response to off-axis presses of any I’ve tried, much better than Alps SKCM or Cherry MX (they can’t compare to good condition hall effect switches or HaaTa’s prized “super Alps” board though). They press down smoothly every time, never sticking and not really adding noticeable amounts of extra friction. I suspect your experience might again be down to some grit inside or some abrasion on the plastic slider or housing.

It appears there might be two versions of these switches. Some are reported to be quite light, while other are very heavy (my clicky ones are all 80 gf, including the few NOS switches I have). It might be they were made in different plants. Similarly, all three of my Space Invaders boards bind a little on off-centre keypresses, and have a small amount of friction (as do the NOS switches). It's not horrible or anything, they still go down fine, just with a little more friction than usual. None of my boards are in as-new condition though. It's definitely quite bad on the unstabilised larger keys on my Hi-Tek, with the stepped keys. Press them on the flat bits and they bind so badly they don't go down at all (although the angle is of course extra horrible in that case).

I've also personally never had the least bit of binding with Cherry keys, btw. Though they're not my kind of switch, they perform admirably when pressed off-centre IMO - it's one of their biggest advantages IMO. Alps are not quite as good at it, but again I've never really had any problems.

[Muirium]

As much as I like to rag on MX, off-axis stability is one of its strengths. Way better than Matias switches.

My second space invader board feels light to me. So you could be on to something about different generations of black switches, Chyros. I've been on my HHKB exclusively over here for about a month so if anything, black space invaders should have stunned me with their heaviness after all this 45g Topre typing. But no!

[Laser]

To compare my two keyboards (one with Blue Alps, the other with black Space Invaders) in terms of off-axis stability, the Space Invaders wins! As much as I like the Blue Alps, they slowly induce fingers fatigue exactly because I feel every off-center press.

[Muirium]

I've got a blue Alps 60% in the works. Don't tempt me to chop my second space invader board down to a more useful size, too!

Actually, I got it for that exact purpose. It's an okay fullsize board, but I could see it being a much better 60% with a nice tight case. My late model RT8255C+ is great in the switch and caps department, but the case is flimsy by my standards and theirs, as I recall. Curse that Big Ass Return!

[Chyros]

I've got a blue Alps 60% in the works. Don't tempt me to chop my second space invader board down to a more useful size, too!

Actually, I got it for that exact purpose. It's an okay fullsize board, but I could see it being a much better 60% with a nice tight case. My late model RT8255C+ is great in the switch and caps department, but the case is flimsy by my standards and theirs, as I recall. Curse that Big Ass Return!

Ach, spaere the axe, lad! Esnae warth et!

[Engicoder]

I also have a similar board with mixed black clickies...some small eyes, some large, stepped eyes. It is N key rollover as well. It shares the same AQ6RT-72511 FCCID. The interesting thing about these keyboards compared to other NMB boards of this generation is that the controller is on a second daughter board. Chyros confirmed that his also had this two PCB configuration.

Pics and Wikification have been on my todo list for a while

[Laser]

I've got a blue Alps 60% in the works. Don't tempt me to chop my second space invader board down to a more useful size, too!

Actually, I got it for that exact purpose. It's an okay fullsize board, but I could see it being a much better 60% with a nice tight case. My late model RT8255C+ is great in the switch and caps department, but the case is flimsy by my standards and theirs, as I recall. Curse that Big Ass Return!

Yes, between a blue Alps 60% and a Space Invader 60%, I'd rather go for the second .. (although the 1st PCB would be easier to obtain - its design exists!). But there is still a chance .. to change the Alps springs to even lighter ones, in the hope that, thus, it would "compensate" for the off-center effort.

[Muirium]

That big ass Return though…

Anyway, my Alps 60% is just looking for a plate now (Sth's working on acrylic ones) and a Poker case. Got myself a PCB from Hasu after all, and the AEK caps are ready!

[Laser]

Good luck with the Alps kbd. I'm sure you'll INVADE the forum with gorgeous pictures of it

[Muirium]

The AEK style has been done. But I'll enjoy it all the same. Blue Alps and PBT dyesubs, you can't go wrong!

Space Invader caps are just as nice as AEKs. Except the layout. I'll look into it, but I sense a lot of work chopping a space invader down. I really want to do it though. Requires the right tools and a good season for doing that intensity of hack.

[Laser]

As the Star Wars saying goes, there might be another ... path to follow.

[Chyros]

Blue Alps and PBT dyesubs, you can't go wrong!

No man, thin ABS doubleshots!