Trump v Clinton: who do you support?

[scottc]

Sure, Halvar, that might be the if they were the only two options in the real polls. But they're not. This poll might as well be named "Malaria vs. the black plague, who do you support?"

[sth]

Because socialism is political suicide.

this is changing rapidly the further we get from the cold bore.

[Muirium]

I'd love that to be the case. But America and Europe are going right wing these days, not left. Protest movements always exist, but elections keep on returning nastier governments.

Part of this is the migrant crisis, which brings out the worst in many people. But as you're seeing with young people's intense distrust of the traditional media, trust in the concept of good government as a whole is really falling. Socialism is all about big, generous, well educated government. Sounds quaint these does, doesn't it!

[CeeSA]

If Trump will win, he will be the man on the planet earth, that I fear most.
And I think he will win...

Germany could use this to leave the NATO and cut all relationship to the USA.
I should leave this planet right now...

[Muirium]

He'd be awful. But I don't think he'll win. I think Americans will vote for their first female president instead. She has a lot less enemies now than him. Which is really saying something!

[sth]

He'd be awful. But I don't think he'll win. I think Americans will vote for their first female president instead. She has a lot less enemies now than him. Which is really saying something!

Jill Stein?

[Muirium]

So long as it's not Carly Fiorina! Trump was quite right about her. Ruined HP when she ran it.

[DanielT]

So long as it's not Carly Fiorina! Trump was quite right about her. Ruined HP when she ran it.

I used to work for HP right after her shitty "reign" she ruined a good company ... She was the first woman to lead a Top 20 company in the ground ...

[Muirium]

Her background says it all. She was trained in management internally at AT&T, rising through the ranks until the Peter Principle got her. A guy with that same career path would have been just as much a bozo.

[seebart]

Part of this is the migrant crisis, which brings out the worst in many people. But as you're seeing with young people's intense distrust of the traditional media, trust in the concept of good government as a whole is really falling.

Unforunately that's true. Fear is a bad motivator. The worst.

Germany could use this to leave the NATO and cut all relationship to the USA.
I should leave this planet right now...

Not happening either way, who are we gonna team up with? China? Definitely not Russia I can tell you that.

[Redmaus]

Sanders is a bad joke

[kbdfr]

[Sanders video]
Sanders is a bad joke

Excuse me for asking, but what is a "bad joke" in saying
"we must be firm in making it clear we will end institutional racism"?

Do you mean you don't want to end institutional racism,
or do you mean there is no institutional racism?

[Redmaus]

Did you even watch the video kbdfr

[fohat]

I also see nothing about that clip that is not absolutely right on.

Except that the "we will" part is painfully difficult and has taken too many generations already, and has also taken a bigger step backwards in the last decade than it took forward in at least the previous generation.

I know what I am talking about. As a white man raised in the South in the 1950s-1960s, I quite remember when my city's schools were desegregated - between my 7th and 8th grades - and how it played out (generally positively, in my community) in the years to come.

[Redmaus]

What about the "you don't know what its like to be poor if your white part"?

Because there are 20 million white homeless in america.

[Muirium]

Ah, politics, where every man has his own self evident truth, all of them different, and debate seldom changes minds!

Still, it gives our keyboards a workout…

45% "refuse to vote because you despise them both". Well that will work great.

Sure did in 2000. Vote Nader, get Bush. Awesome work, guys!

[Wodan]

Seems like I'm the only true Trump supporter here.

I had a little epiphany when I watched this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg0pO9VG1J8

[fohat]

in 2000. Vote Nader, get Bush.

Awesome work, guys!

This goes to the heart of the matter. A 2-party system is extremely hard to break out of.

[kbdfr]

What about the "you don't know what its like to be poor if your white part"?

Because there are 20 million white homeless in america.

Oh well, that's not formulated very well indeed.
But what are the real figures behind what he says and what you say?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessn ... #Ethnicity

Ethnicity
According to the 2010 SAMHSA report, among long-term stayers (persons staying six months or more) in emergency shelters in 2008:
56.6% were Black/African-American
28.7% were Hispanic/Latino

So you find the man is a bad joke because he doesn't mention the white homeless.

Pardon me, but I think you are a bad joke.
You criticize him for not mentioning the white homeless and don't say a word about him saying
"we must be firm in making it clear we will end institutional racism".

You are concerned with the white homeless, you don't care about the more than 85% homeless who are not white.
Now at least one cannot call that institutional racism.

[scottc]

Surely all of the poor people deserve it anyway, right Redmaus? Because poor people are poor for a reason.

[Wodan]

Oh wow this is becoming something great

[Mr.Bean]

How can someone with a sane mind support Trump.

[Redmaus]

Oh well, that's not formulated very well indeed.
But what are the real figures behind what he says and what you say?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessn ... #Ethnicity

Ethnicity
According to the 2010 SAMHSA report, among long-term stayers (persons staying six months or more) in emergency shelters in 2008:
56.6% were Black/African-American
28.7% were Hispanic/Latino

So you find the man is a bad joke because he doesn't mention the white homeless.

Pardon me, but I think you are a bad joke.
You criticize him for not mentioning the white homeless and don't say a word about him saying
"we must be firm in making it clear we will end institutional racism".

I think he is a joke because he said whites dont know what its like to be homeless or live in the ghetto. You know that. Its the title of the video. I didn't say a word about institutional racism because it is not the main point of the video.

Also, he doesnt " not mention" white homeless. He outright says they don't know what its like to be homeless or live in the ghetto.

You are concerned with the white homeless, you don't care about the more than 85% homeless who are not white.
Now at least one cannot call that institutional racism.

I was pointing out that his claim about whites being homeless was a joke. That does not mean I don't care about other homeless.

You are trying to point out prejudice that isn't there. I am not an advocate if institutional racism, you made that up. Before branding others a racist, consider for once that Bernie isn't always right.

[vivalarevolución]

Sanders is a bad joke

Sanders phrasing was too general in that clip, because plenty of white people live in the ghetto and are poor. But I agree with his assertion that a person does not fully understand living in a ghetto/poverty/being subject to racism until they experienced it themselves. Growing in the nice place that I did, I've lived in some less than stellar neighborhoods in large urban areas that are simply eye opening to the conditions many people grow up in.

Ah, politics, where every man has his own self evident truth, all of them different, and debate seldom changes minds!

Still, it gives our keyboards a workout…

45% "refuse to vote because you despise them both". Well that will work great.

Sure did in 2000. Vote Nader, get Bush. Awesome work, guys!

The "voting for Nader gave us Bush" theory is completely inaccurate. Al Gore ran such a mediocre campaign, that he couldn't even win his home state of Tennessee or garner a few more thousand votes to secure Florida. Also, how many tens of millions of eligible voters did not vote that could have voted for Gore? It's not Nader's fault that Al Gore made himself so unappealing as a candidate that he couldn't attract more votes. And then we have the electoral college mishaps.

Only 55% of the voting eligible population voted for president in the 2000 election. 45% of eligible voters, or about 90 million people that could have voted, didn't vote. Ralph Nader only got 2.9 million voters. Al Gore just needed to attract a few million more voters from that 90 million that didn't vote, or win his frickin home state, or attract a few thousands more voters in Florida from the millions in Florida that didn't vote.

People blame Nader for 2000 all the time. But it's more likely that Nader attracted voters that would not vote in the first place than took votes away from Gore. 90 million votes left on the table. Why not blame Al Gore for being such an unappealing candidate?

And yes, I voted for Nader in 2008 because I liked him more than any of the other choices.

[sth]

That does not mean I don't care about other homeless.

[andrewjoy]

Well if sanders would get the nomination ( spoiler he wont) then he would be the best choice, its quite impressive that a socialist ( or at least thats what he would be considerd in the US) has got so far, and encouraging thing in my view.

The problem is Trump vs Clinton, they are both terrible people i don't agree with ether of them, i just personally think that Clinton is worse. Clinton is for big business , she actively supported someone who wanted to re-introduce segregation, and under her husbands administration that she was apparently a " big part of" more people where executed on death row than under any recent president. She was also against gay marriage until recently ( after public opinion shifted ( what a shocker)) and was also for the TPP trade agreement that would have fucked over many many people until the bad press started on that and oh magically she changed her tune.

I think this sums up clinton quite well.

The shake up that Trump would cause ( note the word cause, not start or have any influence over) is exactly what the american system needs to shake the musty cobwebs form it.

Not to mention it would send the hyper progressive easily offended special snowflake crowd insane and thats not a bad thing.

[pr0ximity]

Here's a question I've never gotten a good answer for: is there a moderately objective resource where someone could go to educate themselves on the candidates? Is such a thing even possible?

[kbdfr]

I think he is a joke because he said whites dont know what its like to be homeless or live in the ghetto. You know that. Its the title of the video. I didn't say a word about institutional racism because it is not the main point of the video.

There's one thing you forget to mention, or perhaps did not even notice: it is the title of the video because the video is just a 26-second extract from a longer statement. This extract was given that title by someone who put it on youtube, and the someone who put it on youtube untertains a youtube channel named "Patriotic Populism" backing Trump's campaign (including call for donations).

And you fell into the trap.
They gave you a crumb of biased info in form of a clumsy formulated sentence evidently meant otherwise,
and instead of laughing at them for thinking you are an idiot unable to discern the manipulation,
you thankfully took that crumb and tried to pass it on as a complete meal.

[vivalarevolución]

I think he is a joke because he said whites dont know what its like to be homeless or live in the ghetto. You know that. Its the title of the video. I didn't say a word about institutional racism because it is not the main point of the video.

There's one thing you forget to mention, or perhaps did not even notice: it is the title of the video because the video is just a 26-second extract from a longer statement. This extract was given that title by someone who put it on youtube, and the someone who put it on youtube untertains a youtube channel named "Patriotic Populism" backing Trump's campaign (including call for donations).

And you fell into the trap.
They gave you a crumb of biased info in form of a clumsy formulated sentence evidently meant otherwise,
and instead of laughing at them for thinking you are an idiot unable to discern the manipulation,
you thankfully took that crumb and tried to pass it on as a complete meal.

Yea, if we could have the full context of the segment shown in that video, that would be great.

[berserkfan]

Sanders is a bad joke

And yes, I voted for Nader in 2008 because I liked him more than any of the other choices.

Yay!

Finally I have someone who says he voted Nader!

If I could vote, I would have voted Nader back in the 1990s, so I like you here!