Trump v Clinton: who do you support?

[Redmaus]

Spoiler: Hillary wins.

I know she will win the nomination, but the as far as the election goes, there can be speculation.

The only way to save America is to get Trump elected. As much as you might hate Trump, he is leagues better than Hillary.

[Muirium]

Hate's a strong word. More accurately, I'm sickened by him. He hasn't yet actually made a record for himself of actions I can despise him for. And hopefully never will. His attacks on nonwhites could well do the trick.

[Spikebolt]

The only way to save America is to get Trump elected. As much as you might hate Trump, he is leagues better than Hillary.

Are you serious? You actually support this douche?

Seebart nailed it when he said no one knows this guy's agenda yet. And given his scruples I hope we never have to find out.

[Redmaus]

Hate's a strong word. More accurately, I'm sickened by him. He hasn't yet actually made a record for himself of actions I can despise him for. And hopefully never will. His attacks on nonwhites could well do the trick.

Give me an example of his attacks on nonwhites

[Muirium]

Why? You're not interested. We get that.

[Redmaus]

How am I not interested? If I wasn't interested I wouldn't have asked.

[scottc]

If I honestly had to choose between Trump and Clinton, I'd choose emigration every time.

[Muirium]

Well, you are Irish after all!


@Redmaus: I don't think you are interested. I think you just like to speak and not to listen. I mean, making Kbdfr throw in the towel takes some doing!

off-topic-f10/trump-v-clinton-who-do-yo ... ml#p293423

That's why political beliefs are so seldom worth discussion. There's nothing you could say to make me become a small government pro-gun conservative. Just as no words of mine alone will make you turn in your firearms and become a liberal. We learn and grow, for sure, but not like this. Not just words.

[fohat]

Give me an example of his attacks on nonwhites.

Actually, this was the father that left him the hundreds of millions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... in-queens/

[Redmaus]

I was not proven wrong and you have yet to tell me an actual act of racism committed by Trump.

I have listened. Labeling me as something doesn't mean I don't have other beliefs to the contrary. That's why I don't identify as anything. I prefer to side with what is right, not whats preferable to the side I associate with.

@fohat That's all you guys have? That was 89 years ago and not Trump, his father. Give me something solid.

[fohat]

http://thehill.com/policy/national-secu ... cist-trump

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... ntial.html

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/why-donald-t ... rks-matter

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/ ... -mistaken/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nyt ... 9a5b0c50a5

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/donald-trump-racism/

[Redmaus]

http://thehill.com/policy/national-secu ... cist-trump

I don't care what foreign diplomats have to say. Once again, this is someone else's insight, not Trumps words.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... ntial.html

"I like Mexico. I love the Mexican people. I do business with the Mexican people, but you have people coming through the border that are from all over. And they're bad. They're really bad," he said. "You have people coming in, and I'm not just saying Mexicans, I'm talking about people that are from all over that are killers and rapists and they're coming into this country.”

I do not see the problem here.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/why-donald-t ... rks-matter

Same goes the last one. I don't think being strong on immigration is racist.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/ ... -mistaken/

Islam is not a race, and that article is really looking hard to incriminate him. Yet they still have nothing solid.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nyt ... 9a5b0c50a5

The editorial tore to shreds several of Trump's most egregious claims, including that an "Arab community" in New Jersey was seen cheering the September 11th attacks. Trump has also warned that Syrian refugees might be ISIS in disguise. And in a moment reminiscent of Nazi Germany, he suggested last week that the U.S. should keep a database of Muslim-Americans.

If he saw certain people celebrating how does that make him racist? ISIS has stated they want to infiltrate us by using refugees. An idea to not permit them entry is a good idea.

Once again, Islam is not a race. And a database of potential terrorists isn't a bad idea if we are to let them into the country. It does not violate anyone's rights, all it does is improve national security. I wouldn't be surprised if the government already has something like it in place. And now we revisit the classic argument of "whoever believes in border control is Hitler" argument. Silly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

I am not even going to waste my time on this one. All the claims in this article mean nothing or aren't true.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/donald-trump-racism/

Okay I guess shouting USA is racist now.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/9-o ... 18f618904b

That was the article that was linked in the page that had the alleged racist remarks. Everything he said happens when illegal immigration occurs.

For the love of god, give me something he said. One thing he said that is irredeemably racist.

Next time, don't link a bunch of articles featuring desperate clickbait writers.

[Spikebolt]

Islam is not a race, it's an ideology. But if you claim all people who follow this ideology are terrorists or inferior aren't you making the exact same mistake?

I'm all forward to having greater security but tag all muslims is a measure based on prejudice, not reason. It's not racism but people often use the same term because it's the same basic principle.

[Redmaus]

How does a database say all muslims are terrorists? That is not what he claimed. It is a security measure, not a way to demean the people as terrorists.

I would love to say its prejudice, but it really isn't. ISIS in itself is muslim. The rationale is there.

I understand what you are saying Spikebolt, I don't really think that a tagging muslims is a prudent option either. But either way it doesn't make him a racist.

[scottc]

Well, you are Irish after all!

At least we've got the balls to do it, you guys can't even leave the UK without a big song and dance about it! What you really need is a bloody, violent rebellion. Works a charm, honest!

[fohat]

give me something he said. One thing he said that is irredeemably racist.

“I have black guys counting my money. … I hate it,” Trump told John R. O’Donnell, the former president of Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino, according O’Donnell’s account in his 1991 book “Trumped!” “The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day.”

Trump, according to O’Donnell, went on to say, “‘Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that.”

In an interview with Playboy in 1999, Trump remarked that “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true. The guy’s a f—-g loser. A f—-g loser. I brought the guy in to work for me; it turns out he didn’t know that much about what he was doing. I think I met the guy two or three times total. And this guy goes off and writes a book about me, like he knows me!”

PS - O'Donnell worked for Trump for 3 years

[Spikebolt]

How does a database say all muslims are terrorists? That is not what he claimed. It is a security measure, not a way to demean the people as terrorists.

I would love to say its prejudice, but it really isn't. ISIS in itself is muslim. The rationale is there.

I understand what you are saying Spikebolt, I don't really think that a tagging muslims is a prudent option either. But either way it doesn't make him a racist.

It is prejudice... it assumes that if all ISIS members are terrorists and muslims then all muslims are a threat. I also read a couple of months ago that he wanted to shut down some mosques in the US for "the greater security". I hate ISIS as much as the next guy but I have muslim friends and none of them agree with the ISIS views or claims. I wouldn't want them tagged or their mosques hunted down or associated with terrorism based on their ideology alone. It's not racism, but but it's the same kind of prejudice and unfairness as racism. It's just as bad.

[scottc]

I'm just going to stir some shit because "why the fuck not":

[fohat]

I'm just going to stir some shit

Hey, how did you know that was my Alma Mater?

[Muirium]

Well, you are Irish after all!

At least we've got the balls to do it, you guys can't even leave the UK without a big song and dance about it! What you really need is a bloody, violent rebellion. Works a charm, honest!

I was referring to your people's well known diaspora around the world, especially where the bars are. Which is rich, coming from a Scot, and all the better for it!

As for independence, you guys have Catholicism to thank for that. (While Ulster… not so much.) Scottish independence only became a cause in very recent times, largely thanks to Maggie Thatcher and Tony Blair following their noses and leading England off on a right wing tangent from the rest of us. Scotland's still in the political space all of Britain shared from 1945-1979. Big government, progressive taxes, outward looking internationalism. Our industries were torn out by our own government when I was a child, and when 80%+ of Scots voted against them. It's taken us this long to steel our nerves and begin to break the crushing spell of Too Wee, Too Poor, Too Stupid. Also known as Better Together, the campaign against independence.

Would have been a lot easier if London was outright persecuting us, like they did your ancestors. They've only really begun doing that this last generation or so. While their media whispers to us to lie down and take it quietly, it's for our own good not to fight.

[Halvar]

I'm just going to stir some shit because "why the fuck not":

Wait, the common stereotype is that African Americans are the ones that love KFC, who also tend to support Hillary, so on a common comedy politics level that joke would have been better if it ended in "75% of current Hillary voters"...

[Redmaus]

give me something he said. One thing he said that is irredeemably racist.

“I have black guys counting my money. … I hate it,” Trump told John R. O’Donnell, the former president of Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino, according O’Donnell’s account in his 1991 book “Trumped!” “The only guys I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes all day.”

Trump, according to O’Donnell, went on to say, “‘Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that.”

In an interview with Playboy in 1999, Trump remarked that “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true. The guy’s a f—-g loser. A f—-g loser. I brought the guy in to work for me; it turns out he didn’t know that much about what he was doing. I think I met the guy two or three times total. And this guy goes off and writes a book about me, like he knows me!”

PS - O'Donnell worked for Trump for 3 years

Thank you. That is racist. Looks like I was wrong after all.

@scottc I don't understand what the joke is sorry.

[scottc]

Wait, the common stereotype is that African Americans are the ones that love KFC, who also tend to support Hillary, so on a common comedy politics level that joke would have been better if it ended in "75% of current Hillary voters"...

I think you may be over-analysing this...

(since this thread has already gone down the toilet, I'm just throwing shit to see what sticks)

edit: fixed quoting

[fohat]

on a common comedy politics level that joke would have been better

But the way you did it was not racist because you merely insulted stupid white people.

[seebart]

(since this thread has already gone down the toilet, I'm just throwing shit to see what sticks)

[vivalarevolución]

How about those superdelegates, though? Pretty much guarantee the party-preferred candidate will get the nomination, even if a grassroots candidate squeaks in to win the most delegates in the primaries. How about that for our fake representative democracy, America?

[fohat]

How about those superdelegates, though? Pretty much guarantee the party-preferred candidate will get the nomination, even if a grassroots candidate squeaks in to win the most delegates in the primaries. How about that for our fake representative democracy, America?

edit - sorry, I was remembering 2008 unclearly

Still, there is a possibility that they could be swayed by a recent force of momentum or a belief that, for instance, "outsider" Bernie might fare better against "outsider" Trump than would "insider" Clinton.

The Democratic convention is a week after the Republican, so they can make a last-minute adjustment if need be.

[vivalarevolución]

How about those superdelegates, though? Pretty much guarantee the party-preferred candidate will get the nomination, even if a grassroots candidate squeaks in to win the most delegates in the primaries. How about that for our fake representative democracy, America?

Really? Maybe I am remembering wrong, but I thought that in 2008 the super delegates, initially assumed to be in Clinton's pocket, swung toward Obama when it became clear that the popular momentum was moving in his direction.

That's the thing. They can vote for whomever they want, and are not beholden to the winner of the primary in their respective states. Nothing binds them to voting for the leading candidate except sentiment. That is clearly not democratic. Democracy institutes the will of the people, not the will of a few people in the ruling party.

And Obama always struck me as an establishment-approved candidate, so the superdelegates switching support to him would not surprise me. The party had been grooming him for years before he announced his run.

[chuckdee]

I didn't see this posted in the thread: http://blog.dilbert.com/post/126589300371/clown-genius

Scott Adams really has him nailed. I didn't think so when I first read this many months ago. But... damn.

[seebart]

Have a look at minute 9:00 of this BERNIE SANDERS vs HILLARY CLINTON Foreign Language Channel Democratic Presidential Debate Miami, FL March 09, 2016