Trump v Clinton: who do you support?

[seebart]

There was no Republican candidate on this platter of turds capable of beating a celebrity and attention junkie like old man Trump. By the time his enemies pulled their pants up, he had already won.

Very true but I did have a hopes for Jeb for a while towards the beginning of the race. Any candidate partly refects what the voter wants and feels...kinda creeps me out when I think how the trumpet guy is sweeping this one. Hillary and her past is her own biggest enemy IMO. Bernie and Cruz are out anyway.

[webwit]

Yay fascist stasi neo-liberal wedding bombers. Because, that other guy is Hitler.

[seebart]

No Hitler was Austrian and more intelligent in organizing genocide amongst many other things.

[vivalarevolución]

It's not close, viva. Trump has the nomination wrapped up in a bow. Just like Hillary. The media is doing its job as always: manufacturing crisis so it's got lots to cover. For a change, one of the parties is really playing into that. And, even rarer, it's not the Democratic Party. But let's not feign dimness here. There was no Republican candidate on this platter of turds capable of beating a celebrity and attention junkie like old man Trump. By the time his enemies pulled their pants up, he had already won. Deservedly so, the vile, wee handed manchild. What a stack of losers were running this year!

As for which one wins the real contest: it's just like Obama said. Whoever the next president may be, we know she'll be just great.

Please, let me indulge in some drama. We haven't got this much attention in years!

[webwit]

Troll: Trump might be best for the rest of the world. This is, to troll you more, the Russian view (they've got a more capable, more dangerous version of him). Trump is all about internal US issues, unlike the previous presidents who wanted to fuck with the rest of the world. We've got the Middle East oil wars, the massive, total spying on Europe and the rest of the world, the suffocating control on many European governments, the pushing of TTIP which gives big business more power than the people, etc. All the things Clinton likes. If they would fuck off for a while that would be great. More chance of that with Trump . Then ideally Trump would only fuck with the US and just leave a mess there. Of course what would really happen is that he will be controlled by the powers that be, but at least he would be a better clown.

[Muirium]

Seebart: have you seen Trump's numbers? I'm not the least bit worried about him winning…

Overall, Trump is deeply unpopular with general election voters and will have a lot of work to do to repair his image should he become the Republican nominee. The race can and will change, and Hillary Clinton shouldn’t take a lot for granted. But Trump is more likely to “transform the electoral map” by turning red states blue, rather than the other way around.

Besides her gender—which would automatically make her victory an important moment in American history—Hillary is far from an ideal candidate. But she doesn't have to be. She's up against an unelectable son of a bitch who has gone out of his way to make fervent enemies of every demographic group you need to win the presidency. Whatever game Trump's playing, it isn't the one that wins the White House. In fact, he may even doom enough "down the ticket" Republicans (senators, congressman, etc. that are up for election on the same day) that Hillary gets a functional congress to do business with again. That's been Obama's biggest problem: domestic gridlock. And then there's that pivotal supreme court justice vacancy too.

This would be a horrific year for the Republicans to lose everything. That's why so many of them fear and loathe Trump so much. Tough noogies, your voters disagreed!

[webwit]

Obama has been like Bush: spread war, spread massive spying, corrupt other governments, vast deterioration of civil rights, promote economic crisis to finance the bank bubble (the profits for the big guys, the losses for the people), big corp trade agreements, bomb weddings, etc. Total corruption and the enemy of the people. And so will the next president of the US be. Because the people let themselves being polarized by the silly yet effective aim on demographics, because they are stupid, so the silly people elect a side, which is the wrong side. Not the side of the people. And they deserve it, because they are stupid and voted for it. With rabid conviction. Look at them go, attacking the other side, in favor of their own psychopath.

[Redmaus]

To be honest I think anyone that would prefer Clinton over Trump are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Stop buying into the retarded hype and look at Trump's actual policy on his website:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions

Also I think Trump would be great for race relations, its not like they have fared good under Obama. Trump doesn't support a racist movement like BLM and isn't endorsed by the KKK(Clinton).

Please point out something on his policies that is "racist" or bad for the economy.

[fohat]

Fortunately your transcendent ignorance is irrelevant because you are too young to vote.

[Blaise170]

The fact that white supremacists support Trump and he didn't denounce it is proof enough. Remember, by the way, that a lot of the policies that came from the Obama administration has been from a moderately mixed Congress, with about 60% Republicans and 40% Democrats from 2012-2016.

[Redmaus]

Fortunately your transcendent ignorance is irrelevant because you are too young to vote.

Amazing rebuttal

EDIT: Also I might not be able to vote, but I still wield influence. I have gotten my parents as well as some of the seniors at my high school to vote for Trump. Many of the seniors were initially going to vote for Bernie.

[vivalarevolución]

Only the "true believers" are able to look at their candidate of choice not be able to see the faults of their own candidate. One must learn to see the good and bad in everything, even the matters they fervently support.

I do not believe teenagers should be able to vote. I also believe the voting age should be raised to 25, because I certainly do not trust my 18-year-old self and college self and even a year out of college self to vote. There are things you learn as an a self-supporting adult that you cannot understand as your younger self.

But as long as we are going to send our boys to die at the age of 18, we should at least let them vote for their right to die in the name of whatever cause their benevolent leaders have convinced them to die for.

[chuckdee]

I do not believe teenagers should be able to vote. I also believe the voting age should be raised to 25, because I certainly do not trust my 18-year-old self and college self and even a year out of college self to vote. There are things you learn as an a self-supporting adult that you cannot understand as your younger self.

You've just described probably a good portion of those that are over 25. Age is not a sufficient delimiter for voting rights if you're going to start setting a higher bar to the ability to vote. And everyone is not the same, no matter what criteria you attempt to use. Why else is television and the money spent there so important and influential on the race? People don't want the truth, they want to be told what to do.

[seebart]

Yes Mu I have seen Trumps numbers and I'm not worried because I don't have to live in the US, on the other hand we all have to deal with it on some level if the guy get's elected. Hillary (webwit's favorite wedding bomber) is the more predicable lesser evil. I would have liked to see "Bernie the socialist" go to the Whouse. The RNC 2016 in Cleveland, Ohio from July 18–21, 2016 will be an interestig event since things aren't going sooo smooth for the grand old party this time around.

[Redmaus]

Why do you guys like Bernie so much? I checked his policies and they are straight cringe.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/

Also the donate button is everywhere, I can't escape it I guess that is socialism for you.

[seebart]

Haha Redmaus I never said I like the guy, since I am not a citizen of your country my perspective is a little different to yours...which is fine. He's out the race anyway. So is Cruz. It's Hillary vs. Trump now.

[Redmaus]

Yeah true you are from a different perspective. To me Trump is by far the best out of those three.

Unfortunately I think Hillary will win

[seebart]

Unfortunately I think Hillary will win

Impossible to tell at this time IMO.

[kbdfr]

[…]
https://berniesanders.com/issues/
Also the donate button is everywhere, I can't escape it I guess that is socialism for you.

There is just one "Contribute" button in the navigation bar appearing at the top of each page
and one "Contribute" button in the sitemap appearing at the bottom of each page.
That's all.

By the way, on the Trump website referred to by Redmaus before,

[…] Trump's actual policy on his website:
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions […]

there is also one "Donate" button in the navigation bar appearing at the top of each page.
No sitemap at the bottom of each page, but a mention "Paid for by Donald J. Trump for President, Inc."

"Inc."? I thought he finances his campaign on his private fortune,
but this way there's probably some kind of fiscal advantage which the taxpayer will have to pay for

[Blaise170]

Why do you guys like Bernie so much? I checked his policies and they are straight cringe.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/

Also the donate button is everywhere, I can't escape it I guess that is socialism for you.

What's so cringe about equality for everyone? The country was founded on equality, not equality if you are white or if you are rich or whatever else. Do you understand socialism beyond what the GOP has said about it? I don't agree with all of his policies but at least he is trying to run a platform based on egalitarianism instead of hatred and weariness of the "establishment".

[Redmaus]

Look under racial issues and LGBT

[kbdfr]

Look under racial issues and LGBT

What I read under "Fighting for LGBT":

In many states, it is still legal to fire someone for being gay. It is legal to deny someone housing for being transgender. That is unacceptable and must change. We must end discrimination in all forms.

And under "Racial justice":

We must pursue policies to transform this country into a nation that affirms the value of its people of color.

Don't know what can be objected to that.
Nobody will force you to be gay or black, after all

[scottc]

Why do you guys like Bernie so much? I checked his policies and they are straight cringe.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/

Also the donate button is everywhere, I can't escape it I guess that is socialism for you.

What's so cringe about equality for everyone?

I can only respond by quoting another post:

Fortunately your transcendent ignorance is irrelevant because you are too young to vote.

[seebart]

I just can't get worked up about any of this anymore. Call me jaded.

[Spikebolt]

Look under racial issues and LGBT

I'm not sure about the "Require police departments to adopt policies to ensure fairer interactions with transgender people" thing but everything else looks legit o.o

[andrewjoy]

Despite major advances in civil and political rights, our country still has a long way to go in addressing the issue of gender inequality.

He (sanders) does go on about how there is a gender wage gap when there clearly is not, yes on average women earn less than men but thats not because of sexism or discrimination its because people do different jobs, more men study science in university for example, so in turn have higher paid jobs (possibly if you spent less time doing gender studies at university and studied a real subject you would not get paid less).

You could say people who wear blue tshirts on average earn more than people who wear red tshirts and it would be just as a retarded argument.

Now if 2 people one a man one a woman do the same job with the same experience and the same performance and the woman earns less that is wrong and as far as i am aware is illegal in the US just as it is in europe.

We must pursue policies to transform this country into a nation that affirms the value of its people of color.

Yes and one day we may have a president in the US who is of colour ... oh wait.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with equality but already have equality , at least from an instutuonalised standpoint. Sure there may be police officers that happen to be racist or a business owner that does not pay staff equally but its hardly something that we need to transform a country to solve.

In many states, it is still legal to fire someone for being gay. It is legal to deny someone housing for being transgender. That is unacceptable and must change. We must end discrimination in all forms.

Thats kind of disgusting , that does need to be addressed.


Don't get me wrong , on the whole i like sanders but like 90% of other politicians they pander to the hyper offended regressive who find everything problematic and everything is sexist and everything raciest.

Clinton is even worse for this among many many other things , and trump although not as bad in this area has to be clinically insane.

I don't know , America is a truly frightening country.

[Muirium]

It is if you insist on looking at it that way. Everything is.

[kbdfr]

Despite major advances in civil and political rights, our country still has a long way to go in addressing the issue of gender inequality.

He (sanders) does go on about how there is a gender wage gap when there clearly is not, yes on average women earn less than men but thats not because of sexism or discrimination its because people do different jobs, more men study science in university for example, so in turn have higher paid jobs (possibly if you spent less time doing gender studies at university and studied a real subject you would not get paid less).
[…]
Now if 2 people one a man one a woman do the same job with the same experience and the same performance and the woman earns less that is wrong and as far as i am aware is illegal in the US just as it is in europe. […]

It's a little more subtle than that.

• First, your implicit assumption girls would spend their time "doing gender studies at university" instead of "stud[ying] a real subject" is a typical male prejudice.
• Second, as an example, on average girls perform better than boys at school. But at home, boys typically do not assume household duties while girls do. In low income families, they are more "needed" at home than boys and thus less likely to pursue studies, which inevitably results in (on average) lower status jobs with lower pay.
• Third, particularly in the low-wage sector, when a man and a woman are hired at the same time, the man will almost automatically get the job with higher responsabilities and higher pay (e.g., in the cleaning sector, shift supervisor vs. simple cleaner).
• Fourth, when a child is born it is generally taken for granted that it is the mother who will take a career break to assume the caring duties while the father will pursue his career. After all, in general he already has the better paid job.
• Fifth, and even independently from the third point above, this "mother taking a career break" situation is already expected at the moment of hiring and of course is reflected in the jobs "reserved" for men and those accessible to women.

That's how discrimination works.

So while you argue that "on average women earn less than men but thats not because of sexism or discrimination its because people do different jobs",
the reality is that people do different jobs partly precisely because of sexism or discrimination.

Basically you are right when saying we "already have equality , at least from an instutuonalised standpoint", but it is rather that we have equality only in an institutional perspective.

[fohat]

and trump although not as bad in this area has to be clinically insane.

Trump is not insane.
I think that the "clown genius" assessment is spot on (even now, nearly a year later):
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... wn-genius/

Anyone who read the Sullivan article in its entirety would recognize that the mood and context is ripe for what he described, and that Trump is an actor primed and ready to play his role. The tragedy is that the country, in general, has not yet come to terms with what an unmitigated disaster it was the last time that an actor was selected for the role of President, and how those ill effects have lingered ever since - growing rather than diminishing down through the decades.

This election cycle is proving that the sleeping giant is awakening to the magnitude of the harm that has been done to it, but does not yet recognize who did what, or why.

[webwit]

^ All the people who avoid questioning Clinton, are in favour of mass spying, and would vote for it.