Ulnar nerve entrapment

seebart · 04 May 2016, 16:53

I recently suffered a Ulnar nerve Entrapment at the Elbow. I can still move my two outer fingers but the pinky and ringfinger on my right hand are semi-numb all the time now and certain motoric skills such as handwriting are quite difficult to perform. I'm posting this because it's interesting in relation to keyboard typing and my experience before and after this condition. I'm now doing daily Ulnar nerve flossing exercises, I have seen a doctor who did diagnose Ulnar nerve entrapment at the elbow. Surgery would be my last choice, although the doctor suggested it as the best and quickest "solution", I will not go that way right now but rather continue with the Ulnar nerve flossing exercises and see if my condition improves. Anyway the interesting thing is my typing has actually improved slightly since this permanent condition, I have to say I was never a good typist to begin with. I wonder if typing can act therapeutic in some way. The doctor and all the information I found online suggest the nerve needs to be stimulated through exercise. I will also rotate my keyboards to see if a different switch and keyweight work better for me now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulnar_nerve_entrapment

Muirium · 04 May 2016, 17:07

Ouch. Have you any idea what caused it? A knock to the elbow or something?

Flossing sounds interesting. How does that work when you're not talking about teeth but a nerve!?

Anyway, I'd say any excuse is a good excuse to switch around keyboards. Take 2 Topre and 1 IBM daily until our next appointment.

seebart · 04 May 2016, 17:13

No, I did not have any accident or anything like that. I only noticed when my two fingers felt numb like when your hand "falls asleep". Same feeling. I do not have any pain whatsoever. "Nerve flossing" is a strange name, it's just exercises like this:

I'm lucky in that my typing has not suffered and that I do not need to hand write at my job, that would be a real problem now.

derzemel · 04 May 2016, 17:16

Sorry to hear this... it must have been very scary and maybe still is.

How does flossing work?... all I have in my mind is dental flossing (edit: saw the video above

)

I also developed Synovial (Ganglion) Cyst last year in both my wrists and the keyboard that really helped with the pain was the 45g Topre (novatouch).
Also, what I think helped me was actually changing keyboards and switch types. It may have made my wrists a bit stronger. I haven't talked with a doctor about this so I do not have a specialist opinion, but this is what I felt.
But sometimes I still get horrible pains in my right wrist and I am completely unable to type on MX black or buckling spring and the most comfortable keyboard is the FC660c as I do not move the hand that much.
Maybe an ergonomic keyboard (Ergodox, Maltron, DataHand

) would be a good start for you, as you can set it up as comfortable as you like and you move mostly the fingers?

seebart · 04 May 2016, 17:21

Yeah I'll try my Apple adjustable, that's the only ergo keyboard I have here right now. It was scary when I realized that the numb feeling is not going away. I have gotten used to it now. It is a minor handycap for sure. The doctor said this can also just be a result of the nerve being pressured in it's position at one point over a years.

But sometimes I still get horrible pains in my right wrist and I am completely unable to type on MX black or buckling spring and the most comfortable keyboard is the FC660c as I do not move the hand that much.

That does not sound good? Watch that and get a doctor to have a look.

chzel · 04 May 2016, 17:46

Nasty...It's indeed a minor handicap, unless it's so bad that you get loss of muscle control/power. More of an annoyance.
The freakiest thing is that the ring finger gets numb only on the "outside" (the pinky side). I have damaged the ulnar nerve on the right hand by leaning too much on my elbow while holding my head up in total boredom.

In my case, after the electromyogram, the "solution" was to get vitamin B12 supplements and wait it out... Took almost a year for the numbness to lessen, and still returns if I even look at my elbow the wrong way.
Thankfully I'm a lefty.
From what I understood, other than surgery, your best bet is to find which moves and postures aggravate it and avoid them while your body tries to heal the damage.

seebart · 04 May 2016, 17:51

Hmm vitamin B12 supplements? Interesting. Yeah avoiding leaning on my elbow is one thing that I have to live with, not a big deal. Not being able to handwrite like before is the biggest handicap. This syndrome is not uncommon at all. I was able to get tons of good information online. I'll give myself at least six months before even contemplating surgery.

chzel · 04 May 2016, 18:13

To be exact, it was Neurobion (which apparently is not only B12, but that's what stuck in my mind).
Yeah, I'd consider six months a minimum, it took me longer to see any actual difference (not being continuously numb).

seebart · 04 May 2016, 18:18

I think I'll go see a physiotherapist next week just to get some more feedback. The neurologist I went to see last week seemed to me like he wanted to rush me into surgery. We all know how much surgery costs right?

chzel · 04 May 2016, 18:21

Isn't it covered by health insurance?

seebart · 04 May 2016, 18:25

Of course, but never 100%. Don't get me started on german health insurance. Talk about fraudsters.

webwit · 04 May 2016, 19:28

seebart wrote: the pinky and ringfinger on my right hand are semi-numb all the time now and certain motoric skills such as

Should I continue reading?

seebart · 04 May 2016, 19:52

It's harmless webwit...unless you got the dirty mind of a duck.

Khers · 04 May 2016, 20:16

Sounds like you're experiencing something similar to what I've had since an unfortunate accident during my military service when my left arm ulnar nerve was cut off just above my wrist. The surgery following the accident was only semi-successful, so things got better to a certain degree, but I still haven't got full control of my pinkie and ring finger and I have had a constant numbness in the ulnar part of my lower left arm for the past ten years.

I really hope that you can set your nerve free again (:D), seeebart. I know the feeling, and while you do get used to it, I would really like to have my ulnar nerve back in its original shape.

Muirium · 04 May 2016, 20:25

Hopefully you got good compensation from the government for that. What a gyp!

Nerve problems are no good at all. Congenital ones seem to run in my family, so I'm aware of how maddening they can be, at least by proximity. Haven't experienced it directly for myself though. I'd cross my fingers right about here but I don't want to tweak a nerve…

seebart · 04 May 2016, 20:29

Yes sounds like you had a more intensive incident of what I have Khers. I can still move my fingers, certain movements are more difficult than others. It's not the end of the world, it's a annoying minor handycap. I need to give it some time and continue with the exercises on a daily basis.

What really freaked me out Mu is that this happened with no notice whatsoever. Nothing happened and all of a sudden I got two fingers that feel like rubber with limited movement. Childs play compared to what your mum is going through though.

Khers · 04 May 2016, 20:32

I got some, but let's just say it wasn't worth it, but I don't think that's the point either. Today I don't feel too constrained by it, and the only real change is that I've had to reassess my long-standing retirement plans of learning to play the guitar. That won't happen. And I had to quit playing the piano.

At least I got out of the army though (it really wasn't the place for me if I'm honest - I don't like having people telling me what to do).

Luckily for me, there is no pain involved in my nerve injury, just numbness. I have the deepest respect for those who have to endure paining nerves on a daily basis.

jacobolus · 05 May 2016, 04:31

The various branches of the ulnar nerve are responsible for quite a few muscles in the hand, including various muscles inside the hand for moving all the fingers side to side, a few muscles in the forearm which help flex the wrist and swivel it outward, the muscles in the forearm which flex the proximal joint and extend the distal joints of the last two fingers, and some muscles which adduct the thumb and help the palm grip. They’re also responsible for skin’s sense of touch on both sides of the hand, toward the pinky side.

I don’t have any hand problems, but after fracturing both lower leg bones near the ankle and having a surgery to fix it, about 14 years ago, something in the process messed with one of the nerve branches to the big toe side of my foot, and lost shallow skin sensation on the top my right big toe and the toe next to it, extending about halfway up the foot on the same side. Doesn’t really affect me day to day, since it’s only the top side affected, and only shallow skin sensation rather than muscle movement. Still kind of annoying though, and continues to feel weird.

seebart · 05 May 2016, 13:24

jacobolus wrote: The various branches of the ulnar nerve are responsible for quite a few muscles in the hand, including various muscles inside the hand for moving all the fingers side to side, a few muscles in the forearm which help flex the wrist and swivel it outward, the muscles in the forearm which flex the proximal joint and extend the distal joints of the last two fingers, and some muscles which adduct the thumb and help the palm grip. They’re also responsible for skin’s sense of touch on both sides of the hand, toward the pinky side.

Believe me, right after my condition became clear to me I noticed what all that's involved. Considering this is "only" one nerve it very quickly becomes clear what a complex organism the human body is. The fact is that I am having difficulty with some hand movements and involving very specific refined actions, I can still do all these things like write with a pen but it's so much more of a burden now. When typing I've started to use the two numb fingers more now which actually feels good. That this Ulnar nerve entrapment is making me a better typist is a really absurd!

jacobolus wrote: I don’t have any hand problems, but after fracturing both lower leg bones near the ankle and having a surgery to fix it, about 14 years ago, something in the process messed with one of the nerve branches to the big toe side of my foot, and lost shallow skin sensation on the top my right big toe and the toe next to it, extending about halfway up the foot on the same side. Doesn’t really affect me day to day, since it’s only the top side affected, and only shallow skin sensation rather than muscle movement. Still kind of annoying though, and continues to feel weird.

That sounds like a pretty intense nuisance, sorry to hear that.

jacobolus · 07 May 2016, 11:34

It's actually not a problem at all. I only notice it if someone e.g. steps on my foot, and the deep nerves still feel it but the surface nerves don’t, making it kind of weird. Turns out that skin sensation on the top of your foot is almost never necessary for anything. Would be much worse to lose sensation on the bottom of the foot.

Touch_It · 07 May 2016, 15:56

That sounds like it sucks. Glad it isn't painful like when your hand "falls asleep". I can't really relate, but I lost feeling in my right lower lip for a couple weeks following surgery, and it was scary not knowing if I'd ever get feeling back.

Here's to a quick and surgery-free recovery.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

seebart · 07 May 2016, 16:53

Touch_It wrote: That sounds like it sucks. Glad it isn't painful like when your hand "falls asleep". I can't really relate, but I lost feeling in my right lower lip for a couple weeks following surgery, and it was scary not knowing if I'd ever get feeling back.

Here's to a quick and surgery-free recovery.

Thanks, you should be glad you cannot relate, but it's really not that bad. My handwriting is improving, I'm doing the daily nerve stimulation exercises, I have not given up yet although I'm pretty sure those two fingers will never be 100% again.