Alternatives to dissapointed Mac users

face · 30 Oct 2016, 10:02

Hey,

I really wanted to upgrade, but am quite dissapointed by the new Macbook selection. So, incidentially there are a few reasons for me to go with a Windows-machine:

1) Need SVN, which sucks on Mac somehow
2) Need Simulink and Matlab, which sucks on the mac too in terms of usability
3) Unfortunately need Microsoft Word since LaTeX isn't supported from our postdocs - they want to make easy comments and keep corporate identity up (unfortunately again, since it looks like shit - non-serif on printed paper...) - and it just doesn't work well enough with Mac. Missing shortkeys, problems with macros and imported templates.

My plan has been to upgrade to a Thunderbolt 3 laptop which can, in extension with a 4k monitor, replace my desktop. But as it seems there aren't any good options atm. Best call would be the Dell XPS 13, but with the coil whine unresolved that isn't a option for me. I once had a XPS and it was a catastrophe.

So I will probably upgrade and renew my desktop and am looking for a portable (under 1.4kg) laptop, on which I can do my daily work when travelling. I want:

i) to do CPU intensive tasks (i5+)
ii) a good display for occasional photo editing, 13-14" display
iii) a lightwight laptop

Do you have any recommendations for me that are qualitywise nearly as good as the Macbook I am coming from? I wouldn't ask if this topic wasn't very annoying for me.

Best regards
Max

Wodan · 30 Oct 2016, 10:10

Thinkpad X1 carbon or T460 if you can deal with a little extra weight.

Thumper · 30 Oct 2016, 13:14

Go for the X1 Carbon. While the T460 series have PWM panels no all X1 Carbon have them.
I for myself have a X1 Carbon for light use ( i7-6700, 8GB RAM, 512 NVME) and never noticed any performance issues.
2-3 VMs simultaneously were no issues even with Word + Outlook + Firefox running in the background.

On normal usage I get 7+ hours of battery life in 60-80% brightness.

Hypersphere · 30 Oct 2016, 14:55

@face: I do most of my computing with desktop workstations, but I have an 11-inch Macbook Air for travel. I found that even a 13-inch Macbook was just slightly too large and heavy for ease of use during travel.

Because of software considerations, some time ago I switched from OS X to Windows as my primary computing platform (I also use linux). So, now, my MBA is running Windows 8.1 under Bootcamp, and I have two "cheese grater" Mac Pro machines running Windows 10 under Bootcamp. (I also have PC workstations running either Windows 10 or Linux Mint 17.3 Xfce).

My MBA is starting to show its age, and so I am also in the market for a new laptop. My primary concern is portability, as I have plenty of desktop power for serious computing. I am not looking for a desktop replacement.

I have not kept up with the latest developments in Apple's laptop line. What are the features (or lack thereof) that you didn't like in the new Mac laptops?

At one time, I had also thought that the Dell XPS 13 could be a replacement for my 11-inch MBA. What is "coil whine" that you mentioned?

I've taken a quick look online at the Lenovo X1 carbon. Looks good, and although it is relatively thin and light, I think I would like something smaller in the x,y dimensions.

Looking forward to recommendations from you and/or others!

Thumper · 30 Oct 2016, 16:03

Hypersphere wrote:@face: I do most of my computing with desktop workstations, but I have an 11-inch Macbook Air for travel. I found that even a 13-inch Macbook was just slightly too large and heavy for ease of use during travel.

Because of software considerations, some time ago I switched from OS X to Windows as my primary computing platform (I also use linux). So, now, my MBA is running Windows 8.1 under Bootcamp, and I have two "cheese grater" Mac Pro machines running Windows 10 under Bootcamp. (I also have PC workstations running either Windows 10 or Linux Mint 17.3 Xfce).

My MBA is starting to show its age, and so I am also in the market for a new laptop. My primary concern is portability, as I have plenty of desktop power for serious computing. I am not looking for a desktop replacement.

I have not kept up with the latest developments in Apple's laptop line. What are the features (or lack thereof) that you didn't like in the new Mac laptops?

At one time, I had also thought that the Dell XPS 13 could be a replacement for my 11-inch MBA. What is "coil whine" that you mentioned?

I've taken a quick look online at the Lenovo X1 carbon. Looks good, and although it is relatively thin and light, I think I would like something smaller in the x,y dimensions.

Looking forward to recommendations from you and/or others!

X260 or X240 then?

face · 30 Oct 2016, 16:12

Thanks for the X1 Carbon recommendation. I was put off from Lenovo due to very bad experiences in my circly of friends (my girlfriends 17" is just fallin apart...), but I will take a closer look, since I just realised that they might have get rid of the bad quality, PWM-flickering, way to dark displays. Also, I really like the durability - thats something that annoys me on my macbook. You have to be super careful if your hands are a bit wet or if the tiniest drop of rain comes through the window...

So, if your experience with the carbon is good, I am more than happy to reconsider it!

@Hypersphere: sorry if I can't answer you in length, writing in english is a bit exhausting for me. But I will try:

Regarding the new Macbooks: I paid somethin about 1750€ for my 2015 one, with 256GB and 16GB RAM. To get the new version without touchbar is senseless, because I would have about the same CPU-power, but would have to pay around 2000€. That would be less power with shitty port selection (there isn't even USB-C in my environmet...). Pay 150 bucks for adapters... no thanks. Only reason to upgrade would have been to make it my main setup with an external 4k display, but paying 2250 for the better Macbook and 100 for adapters e.g. I won't be able to afford the display. So no reason to upgrade to this.
I honestly feel fooled by them. That should have been called "Macbook 13" and not "Macbook Pro". Nothing Pro there. Ever heard a Macbook Pro user complain about it being to thick? No. Give me my ports back.

Dell XPS 13 coil whine is an annoying high-pitched "feeeeep" that comes from some the mainboard. Really really sucks in a quiet environment. It's very widely reported (just google it) and Dell refuses to do something against this. With that kind of support, I don't want to buy from them. Had one XPS already, that has been a disaster too.

Incidentally, I used to use a MBA too! Was very happy with it in terms of weight and size - my Pro is just a bit on the heavier side and barely wearable on a shoulder strap the whole day. Yet, my MBA started to get slower and slower, with the waiting cursor popping up regularily on normal tasks like wirting - that really sucked. But, I really like the 13" display and couldn't go smaller anymore - Matlab is just taking to much real estate on the screen and even with word it's way more usable with bigger screens. The bigger the better and I think 14" is great. Fits most messenger bags and plenty of room to work with.

Hypersphere · 30 Oct 2016, 16:23

It is unfortunate about the "coil whine". After doing a bit of searching for small laptop reviews, it seems that the Dell XPS 13 remains highly recommended. Perhaps the current version or the ones coming out in early 2017 will have addressed the coil whine issue.

Because portability is a major consideration for me, perhaps I should be looking at tablet computers with keyboards. The Surface 4 seems to get decent reviews. Any thoughts on the Surface 4 with the add-on keyboard?

webwit · 30 Oct 2016, 16:39

Or without the add-on keyboard but with a HHKB instead.

vivalarevolución · 30 Oct 2016, 16:50

My only recommendation is to search for something with a quad core processor if you plan on CPU intensive tasks. If you are worried about back doors on your devices, do not use Lenovo. Although it seems all computer brands have some sort of back door on their devices these days.

face · 30 Oct 2016, 17:00

What backdoor problems do they have? But yeah, other have those too... Can't protect myself from the government anyway, but protection from scammers would be more than nice of course.

Unfortunately, quad core and portable wasn't mentioned in the same sentence concerning laptops yet, I think.

vivalarevolución · 30 Oct 2016, 17:24

face wrote: What backdoor problems do they have? But yeah, other have those too... Can't protect myself from the government anyway, but protection from scammers would be more than nice of course.

Unfortunately, quad core and portable wasn't mentioned in the same sentence concerning laptops yet, I think.

My experiences with dual core laptop processors is that they reach their limits quite quickly for CPU-intensive tasks. But as you said, there will be a sacrifice on portability for a quad core processor. For example, only the Lenovo T- and P-series seem to have quad core processors in the Lenovo offerings.

I googled Lenovo backdoor and there are plenty of interesting results. It also was mentioned during a conversation about laptops on GH for an individual that lived and worked in China for a time.

https://www.google.com/#q=lenovo+backdoor

face · 30 Oct 2016, 17:31

What the fuck?! Great, I am back to not knowing what to buy again...

Hypersphere · 30 Oct 2016, 17:41

Looks like Lenovo comes up most often regarding backdoors, although I have seen Dell and Sony mentioned as well. Dell purportedly has a published method for inactivating their backdoor. However, there are many ways to hack into today's computers and it is difficult to foil all of them. There is an interesting paper on computer security at the following link:

http://blog.invisiblethings.org/papers/ ... armful.pdf

face · 30 Oct 2016, 18:51

The IT at the place I work at has replaced all Lenovo stuff with HP desktops and laptops. Something to consider...

face · 30 Oct 2016, 19:13

HPs website is that *****, I won't buy from them. Unbelievable...

vivalarevolución · 30 Oct 2016, 19:35

Unfortunately, backdoors and government spying seem almost unavoidable in todays computer technology. But I don't know how much one should worry about backdoors, I am definitely not an expert on the subject. I think there are ways to deactivate backdoors, but I have not researched them. The IT at your work may have simply received better prices from HP and made the switch.

Hypersphere · 30 Oct 2016, 19:43

@face: Your English is fine. I would invite you to reply to me in your native language, but my pitiful high-school level German has largely turned to rust over the years from lack of practice and a rudimentary starting level.

I share your disdain for HP's web site. In addition, my university recently cancelled its contract with Dell and switched to HP, but I have found HP computers to suffer from many problems. Fortunately, except for one workstation, because of special computing needs I have been able to justify purchasing custom-built computers from Cofax International, Microway, and Puget Systems. The custom-built systems have been working extremely well. (Even though the university does not pay for my computers -- I get all the funds from external gifts, grants, and contracts -- I have to justify purchases made through the university).

I should add that I have also had very good luck with Apple computers, and I have never seen any other product built as well as my old "cheese grater" Mac Pro machines. Unfortunately, they have also proved relatively underpowered, and software needs have forced me to mostly abandon the Mac OS for Windows and linux.

Because of my desktop-centric nature, I have failed to keep up with mobile technology, and so I am still looking for recommendations for such devices, e.g., very compact laptops, tablets, and smart phones.

[Typed on my Northgate Omnikey 101 with white Alps connected to a Mac Pro running Windows 10].

face · 30 Oct 2016, 21:39

Ah, nice to hear someone liked to learn german

I am really trying to like the Surface Pro 4. 3:2 aspect ratio is great... yet I am afraid I couldn't handle the tablet style well enough while travelling. Although a tablet is hugely practical when learning on a small table (since you can detach the keyboard), I am the sort of guy who uses a laptop on the lap the most of the time - e.g. on the train, in front of the tv, in an armchair, typing one-handed while doing tests where there isn't a table... I think I would miss that.

Today I read that Dell is trying to resolve the coil whine problem with a new mainboard revision. Maybe we will just have to wait until next year. The XPS 13 is tempting, price- and specwise. There could be updated HP laptops too (they just updated the Probook to Kaby Lake), maybe they're cleaning up their website in a breath.

Hypersphere · 30 Oct 2016, 21:49

@face: Yes, I actually very much enjoyed learning German. I only wish I had learned more and kept in practice. At least, it helped me understand English better.

Have you looked at the MS Surface Book?

The Dell XPS 13 does look good. It will be interesting to see if they have solved the coil whine problem in the latest versions of this product.

face · 30 Oct 2016, 22:09

Hypersphere wrote: Have you looked at the MS Surface Book?

The Dell XPS 13 does look good. It will be interesting to see if they have solved the coil whine problem in the latest versions of this product.

Yeah, I took the Book into account... but honestly, I don't like it because it's ugly. And thick. Maybe next version with a better hinge.

What's frustrating: the Dell XPS 13 just GOT a update. Formerly 9350 it's now called 9360 and features Kaby Lake, for what it's worth. But they still haven't solved the coil whine problem.

wobbled · 30 Oct 2016, 22:26

Definitely stick with thinkpads, they're the best alternatives for sure.

I'm currently saving up for a Thinkpad P50 with a 4k screen, 64GB RAM, and Hyperthreaded quad core i7. Pretty beastly machine but they're by no means cheap.

Hypersphere · 30 Oct 2016, 22:33

Apparently the hinge on the Surface Book enables it to function as both a laptop and a tablet. I see the point about it making the machine too thick, especially when closed, but it also looks futuristic in a way -- it reminds me of something from Alien. Regarding tech specs, I like the fact that it has Nvidia discrete graphics.

face · 30 Oct 2016, 22:47

wobbled wrote: Definitely stick with thinkpads, they're the best alternatives for sure.

I'm currently saving up for a Thinkpad P50 with a 4k screen, 64GB RAM, and Hyperthreaded quad core i7. Pretty beastly machine but they're by no means cheap.

Why do you need 64GB RAM?

chuckdee · 31 Oct 2016, 04:40

I have an XPS 13 for my heavy portable lifting, and Surface Pro 4 when I don't need the horsepower.

Wodan · 31 Oct 2016, 06:54

Backdoors in OEM windows installations are a much smaller deal since win10 came out. Just use the windows installation media creation tool to make a usb installer stick, boot from the stick, kill all partitions and start with a squeaky clean installation - fully licenced. A pc with a win10 licence is licenced through a TPM hardware key so there is no need to get your own licence key or get one from the manufacturer to do a clean install. Any time you install the same edition of win10 on that device, microsoft will recognize it and mark it licenced.

andrewjoy · 31 Oct 2016, 11:32

If you ignore the wanky logo this is a beast of a laptop

http://www.razerzone.com/gb-en/gaming-s ... azer-blade

ohaimark · 31 Oct 2016, 11:43

Gigabyte's P37x is worth looking into. They're big suckers at 17", but their understated design and power to weight ratio really make for a nice combo.

axtran · 31 Oct 2016, 12:46

I picked a T460p as it had the best processing power (Quad) in the smallest package that I could find (14"). Also coming from my work computer (Apple rMBP) I'm addicted to high resolution. I also opted for integrated graphics only because of Linux headaches around NVIDIA Optimus.

If you go Lenovo, stick to series T, W, P, and X. The rest (including the normal consumer lines) are terrible.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

andrewjoy · 31 Oct 2016, 13:08

axtran wrote: If you go Lenovo, stick to series T, W, P, and X. The rest (including the normal consumer lines) are terrible.

I agree , the consumer lenovo laptops are terrible.

chuckdee · 31 Oct 2016, 15:57

Wodan wrote: Backdoors in OEM windows installations are a much smaller deal since win10 came out. Just use the windows installation media creation tool to make a usb installer stick, boot from the stick, kill all partitions and start with a squeaky clean installation - fully licenced. A pc with a win10 licence is licenced through a TPM hardware key so there is no need to get your own licence key or get one from the manufacturer to do a clean install. Any time you install the same edition of win10 on that device, microsoft will recognize it and mark it licenced.

Or get a Signature Edition of the hardware from the Microsoft Store. I've bought a couple there, and they're serious about it being barebones.