Xerox DocuT̶K̶LSaver: An Alps custom full sized compact build log

[snacksthecat]

Not Docu-Tickle! It's a TKL made from the best parts of a Xerox Docutech keyboard.

Spawned from my own stubbornness to use as much of the original keyboard as possible, I'm embarking on this journey to build my dream board.

The purpose of this thread is to document the creation of this board. I'm bound to make some mistakes along the way so feedback is more than welcome.

The constraints I'm working with:

• Must use the full alpha block of the stock Xerox Docutech
• Must fit in A87 form-factor case

These two factors are already at odds with each other and necessitate a custom PCB and plate. I have a tiny bit of experience in this space but I plan to make use of community-provided automation tools to reduce errors and provide a solid jumping off point to tweak.

Here is the layout that I'm currently planning (mostly just a starting point right now. not exact):


As you can see from the image, the alphas are 1/4u shorter than standard. I'm hoping that this is not terribly noticeable in the end product but it's definitely the elephant in the room so I'm just going to put it out there. The white caps are undecided placeholders where I need to find some good color match candidates (I'm mostly working with @gainborough's discarded keycaps )

In the past, I've done some off the wall keycap combinations to fill a board. But that is not going to be the goal this time. For this keyboard (as stated above) I would like to preserve as much of the original design as possible.

My first stop is going to be fabricating a custom PCB. To accomplish this, I plan to use skullydazed's amazing Kalerator tool to generate an Eagle project from a KLE and tweak to my needs. I hope to get a start on this tonight and will make sure to post my progress.

Wish me luck as I venture into the crazy world of captital-'C' Customs. If the meme gods are on my side, this might just work out.

Which brings me to my first question: Is there a KLE I can use as a reference to get the A87 measurements correct?

[snacksthecat]

Edit: wrong thread

[Delirious]

Just drill the pcb


And more drillings

[snacksthecat]

Drilling the pcb is cool and your work is very neat, but because of the weirdness of the layout, I'd have to drill for so many switches. No doubt I would just ruin the thing. I'd rather get things right "on paper", then get it fab'd.

That being said, you should see how many extra Alps64 Mini pcbs I have from failed attempts.

Kinda wish I was a little more versed in this area because mistakes get expensive real fast.

[snacksthecat]

I'm doing the keyboard pcb guide in kicad and ran into an issue. Wondering if anyone out there might be able to help me.

I noticed once I put all the components on the pcb that I mixed up Gnd/Vcc in my schematic. I fixed the error in the schematic but I'm not sure how to make the change propagate over to the pcb side.

[snacksthecat]

Well it's not much but it's what I've got so far. I finished the tutorial and then ran through it again. Goes very quickly the second time around.

What doesn't go quickly is creating all these switches, labeling them, and positioning them on the board.

I did my schematic and did rough placement of the switches. Next I'm going to work on getting them in their exact positions based on how I need things laid out.

[snacksthecat]

Got things lined up pretty well. A nice community member sent me some A87 plate files that I used to tweak the spacing. Then I adjusted further according to my KLE. Here's what the keyboard layout looks like overlaid with the pcb footprints.



I'm pretty pleased with this so far so I think what I'm going to do is order to get this printed (and a "plate" cut) out of cardboard. Then test my measurements in reality.

[snacksthecat]

Got everything laid out like I think it should be and routed (used autoroute because I'm lazy). I also already put in an order with Ponoko to get the footprints etched out in cardboard so that I can do a real world layout test. Next I'll start working on the plate design.

[abrahamstechnology]

Very nice, I need to finish learning how to use KiCAD for myself.

[snacksthecat]

After sleeping on it, I realized two things:

1. I forgot to include the upper right cluster (print screen, scroll lock, pause/break)
2. I defined the matrix in such a way that all switches didn't have unique row/column assignments

So I revised the schematic as a 9x10 array meant to minimize the number of pins and ignoring physical layout of the switches. Since I'm autorouting, I don't really mind if the array isn't physically optimized. I also added in the led lock light on the capslock switch as well since my keycaps have a windowed key here.



Now it's re-routing/optimizing in the FreeRouting tool.



Actually, now that I look at it again, I'm not seeing my lock light. Long story short, this is a lot to juggle for a dummy like me

[Delirious]

I'm doing the keyboard pcb guide in kicad and ran into an issue. Wondering if anyone out there might be able to help me.

I noticed once I put all the components on the pcb that I mixed up Gnd/Vcc in my schematic. I fixed the error in the schematic but I'm not sure how to make the change propagate over to the pcb side.

This picture of the USB port's placement is correct. The port must be dead center between F12 and Printscreen or else it wont fit through the usb hole of your LZ-CLS case. Also the port should be extended upward a little bit because to compensate for the case's bezel/thickness.

Another thing to not that the USB port is sandwich between the plate and the pcb. In other word it locates on the same face as your switches so if you dont extend it upward it will interfere with your case. You might have to move it around with your latest revision from what I saw. TKL is the odd-man out, every other layout has the usb port undernearth the pcb but TKL has it sandwiched.

Here are some more pictures for references. Very nice progress.

https://txkeyboards.com/images/virtuema ... 0PCB-1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nLS0Hlo.jpg

[snacksthecat]

This picture of the USB port's placement is correct. The port must be dead center between F12 and Printscreen or else it wont fit through the usb hole of your LZ-CLS case. Also the port should be extended upward a little bit because to compensate for the case's bezel/thickness.

Another thing to not that the USB port is sandwich between the plate and the pcb. In other word it locates on the same face as your switches so if you dont extend it upward it will interfere with your case. You might have to move it around with your latest revision from what I saw. TKL is the odd-man out, every other layout has the usb port undernearth the pcb but TKL has it sandwiched.

Here are some more pictures for references. Very nice progress.

https://txkeyboards.com/images/virtuema ... 0PCB-1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nLS0Hlo.jpg

Really good points, thanks for the tips. The case came with a pcb so I measured with calipers and extended it out in the design.

[snacksthecat]

First crack at a plate for this abomination. Definitely needs lots of refinement. I didn't even attempt to place the stabilizer cutouts because the stab situation for these caps is very odd. I'll have to do some more measuring before I can get those right. Mainly I just tried to recreate the outline of the plate using a jpg of the TX plate that I have. Then used hasu's footprints for switch cutouts.

[snacksthecat]

Good news! I got the order from Ponoko and was able to mount some switches on the cardboard "plate". This will help me understand if I have any spacing issues with keycaps. I don't have the patience to do it right now but tonight I'll get all the keycaps in place and assess from there.

[snacksthecat]

Eh, I got bored.

[snacksthecat]

The gaps on the sides are definitely more noticeable than I'd like. Even though they're only 1/8th unit on either side, they kind of pop out right at you. But that's okay, this train ain't stoppin!

[snacksthecat]

Trying to blend keycaps from another set with these guys is very stressful. They're awesome on their own but nothing really goes with them.

First I tried caps from a Wang 724. The PBT factor is cool but the grays clash with eachother and it ends up looking weird.


Then I tried to go in a completely different direction and use some transparent caps that I got from my secret santa. The photo doesn't do it justice but it actually looks pretty cool. Plus you can see my neon green memes through the keycaps (I don't have them on the "board" but took a photo of a loose one).



I'll keep searching but I'm leaning towards the see-through ones at the moment.

[snacksthecat]

I think I'm pulling the e-brake on using the CLS case for this project. I'm really mystified by these see-through caps and want to do something cool with them. This Xerox project is going to take a lot of waiting and I need something to occupy my mind in the meantime. Sorry DocuTKL; it's not you, it's me. There are plenty of fish (cases) in the sea. We'll find the right one for you.

[snacksthecat]

Well, I have good news and bad news.

I ordered the PCBs and received them yesterday. Unfortunately I realized that I had made a mistake, not connecting my fill to ground (oops). I also discovered that I suck at SMD soldering. Neverthelessless, I got all the components soldered in place. I even managed to fix my error with a very small piece from a stranded wire.



But when I plug it into the pc, it does not get recognized. Hmmm

[swampangel]

I think I'm pulling the e-brake on using the CLS case for this project. I'm really mystified by these see-through caps and want to do something cool with them. This Xerox project is going to take a lot of waiting and I need something to occupy my mind in the meantime. Sorry DocuTKL; it's not you, it's me. There are plenty of fish (cases) in the sea. We'll find the right one for you.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be contemplating a custom case to avoid the side gaps and align the ctrl keys with the rest of the alpha block.

Of course, I thought I'd be clever making a wooden case for my first handwire board and all I have so far is a pile of kindling, so ...

I also discovered that I suck at SMD soldering. Neverthelessless, I got all the components soldered in place.

Love to know what kind of iron and tip you used. I've replaced the odd SMD resistor/etc but never a controller chip.

[snacksthecat]

I think I'm pulling the e-brake on using the CLS case for this project. I'm really mystified by these see-through caps and want to do something cool with them. This Xerox project is going to take a lot of waiting and I need something to occupy my mind in the meantime. Sorry DocuTKL; it's not you, it's me. There are plenty of fish (cases) in the sea. We'll find the right one for you.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be contemplating a custom case to avoid the side gaps and align the ctrl keys with the rest of the alpha block.

Of course, I thought I'd be clever making a wooden case for my first handwire board and all I have so far is a pile of kindling, so ...

I also discovered that I suck at SMD soldering. Neverthelessless, I got all the components soldered in place.

Love to know what kind of iron and tip you used. I've replaced the odd SMD resistor/etc but never a controller chip.

I actually used solder paste and a reflow hot air gun thingy. It took some getting used to but I think I got a decent hang for it / understanding of what temperatures are required. But perhaps, in my learning process, I overheated the MCU or something. I did confirm it's getting 5v but haven't done anything else to troubleshoot it yet.

As for the case, I once tried to modify a cheap 60% case to do this exact same thing; reshape it to fit a particular set of keycaps I liked. That did not go well for me either, so I definitely feel your woodworking pain. If I knew of anyone willing to build me a custom case to spec, I would jump on it in a heartbeat. I've tried looking before but all my leads turned out to be flaky and I got frustrated and gave up the search.

Anyways, this is a real bummer for me because I had another project I wanted to design a custom PCB for. If I can't get this one to work, there's no point in starting that other project

I could adjust course, ditch the raw components, and replace them with a teensy; but I don't think I would be able to gracefully re-route the usb slot. Maybe somebody out there has a good example of how to do this.

[zrrion]

For rerouting the USB I tend to use the small cable that they come with and plug that into a breakout board. I can then run wires from that to another breakout board. I do it this way, along with a socket for the controller, so that the controller can be removed in the event that I need it for a different project or I somehow break it.

[snacksthecat]

I've revised the design to more-closely match the true size of the pcb. After many rounds of measuring, I feel confident that the board cutouts are good now.

I switched from FreeRouting to Topor for autorouting. It seems to produce really nice results but I'm getting some design rule violations. All of the violations are a variation of this "track near pad" error.



I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. The outbound COL0 trace is connected to the pad of D40 instead of the pad of K41. Why is this not allowed? I should point out that kicad doesn't actually recognize that this is a solid connection. Is there anything I can do to tell kicad that these things are all part of the same net?

[snacksthecat]

The good thing: I ordered the plate to be cut in (the cheapest) plastic in order to understand if the measurements are right. I'm happy to report that the edgecuts are all perfectly aligned with the authentic plate. Next I'll do the stab cutouts. Those I'm not going to test because this is getting expensive

[snacksthecat]

I'd like to make one comment for anyone interested in prototyping before buying in the final material. I ordered this "plate" to be cut in PETG 1mm from Ponoko. In the back of my mind I was worried that I wouldn't even be able to work with it without it cracking. Wow was I wrong. This stuff is super flexible. Even if you bend it in half, it doesn't crack; only creases. My only gripe is with the Ponoko options for sizing. I was forced to order on their medium sized sheet which is way more material than I actually needed. It would be nice if they only charged you for the material you used in your design. But I also understand that they need to make money and their ordering rules keep things simple on their end.

Here's a video showing how flexible the 1.0mm PETG material is. I could have even gone thinner for less $$ but I was already afraid of it cracking. Yes I know I left the paper on. I don't need it to be clear, I just need a representative object to validate my design.

[snacksthecat]

I totally redesigned the PCB, this time consulting this amazing guide [1] this time. The guide actually links out to an example 2x2 macropad repo. So I took that project and tailored it to my layout and the alps switch footprints. I'm really hoping it works out this time.

The other thing I changed with this design is the autorouting. Instead of using the FreeRouting software, I used Toper. I'm in awe of how well Toper works and lucky for me my design is just barely compliant with the "lite" (free) version of the software. It has a limitation of 125 nets and my project also has exactly that many. I requested a quote for the full version but it was more than I can spend.

The new boards arrive tomorrow, so we'll know soon enough. If this doesn't work out, I'm jumping ship and going with a teensy (if I even continue at all). These mistakes are both discouraging and expensive

[1] https://kbwiki.ai03.me/books/pcb-design ... gner-guide

[snacksthecat]

The DocuTKL is dead. Long live the DocuSaver

For a variety of reasons, I've decided not to move forward with the TKL form factor. I'm having a hard time matching caps (F-row and everything right of the alphas). I'm also really unhappy with the gaps that result from the 14.75U layout. These turned out to be more noticable than I had anticipated.

Working with what I have, I'd like to adjust course and instead use a compact fullsize(ish) design. Since these cases are typically empty (no winkey blockers and the like), it gives me a lot more flexibility for placing keys where I'd like. It also preserves more of the spirit of the original keyboard which is a philosophical plus.

I'm not so familiar with the wacky world of customs. What cases should I be looking for? It would be good to have some options to validate my design against.

Thanks!

[snacksthecat]

What's stupider; the original above with WKL or this new one below where I'm again doing weird things with the bottom row? (OR this whole layout / any variation)

[swampangel]

I like the WKL layout better. I feel like, after seeing those side gaps in your TKL design, your eye will notice even the smaller gaps in your bottom row. Up to you of course!

My searches keep coming up with "floating" case designs like the Vortex Vibe or the Sentrax TK78. I don't love them but it would be easy to stick your custom plate in there with either a little padding left+right or with an extra 0.5u added between your alpha block and numpad (the M0116 approach).

This looks like what you want but it's long past https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90060.500

[snacksthecat]

I like the WKL layout better. I feel like, after seeing those side gaps in your TKL design, your eye will notice even the smaller gaps in your bottom row. Up to you of course!

My searches keep coming up with "floating" case designs like the Vortex Vibe or the Sentrax TK78. I don't love them but it would be easy to stick your custom plate in there with either a little padding left+right or with an extra 0.5u added between your alpha block and numpad (the M0116 approach).

This looks like what you want but it's long past https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90060.500

Boom, you nailed it exactly. The UK78 is what I landed on after searching mechmarket.

I don't love the floating look either which pushed me away from those cases.

I ended up buying a UK78 from reddit. It hasn't come yet but when it does, I'll be able to get proper plate and PCB measurements. Here is a picture of the case from the post I bought from (no keycaps though).



On a related note, does anyone need some box white switches?