Alps Appreciation

[Polecat]

I don't mean soldering but only exchange the Black Alps sliders into the housing of my White Alps Keyboard.

My turn to not understand. They should swap, but what exactly are you hoping to accomplish by changing just the sliders from white to black?

[thefarside]

Yes it should work without issues. Alps clones should also work. Below is a picture of pine white alps with the original slider on the left and a Matias slider on the right. The Matias sliders it slightly smaller but works.

678E61F5-3FE1-4AF2-9337-0A3D8BE0EE16.jpeg (311.05 KiB) Viewed 9301 times

[Polecat]

Yes it should work without issues. Alps clones should also work. Before is a picture of pine white alps with the original slider on the left and a Matias slider on the left. The Matias sliders it slightly smaller but works.
678E61F5-3FE1-4AF2-9337-0A3D8BE0EE16.jpeg

Wait, are those really Alps switches? Those are what I've been calling the "mystery switches", from 1992-93. Unbranded upper and lower housings, 1x mold numbering, and complicated Alps-style switchplates. They feel and sound like early SKCM switches, nothing like SKCM from 1992-93. I've found those in Datacomp keyboards, and they are hinted at in the wiki in a couple places. But who actually made and sold those, and why is the Alps branding missing?

edit: here's a wiki link with some photos of the mystery switches.

wiki/Datadesk_Switchboard

Note they're described as "incorrectly molded", but I find that hard to believe, considering how many must have been made. I would suggest that there were no Alps markings because 1) these were not made by Alps (someone else bought their tooling perhaps?) or 2) that someone specifically ordered them from Alps with no branding.

[amigastar23]

I don't mean soldering but only exchange the Black Alps sliders into the housing of my White Alps Keyboard.

My turn to not understand. They should swap, but what exactly are you hoping to accomplish by changing just the sliders from white to black?

I want to remove the clicker leaf and make a linear switch like in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsJq434UYTA

[Polecat]

I want to remove the clicker leaf and make a linear switch like in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsJq434UYTA

Not a thing wrong with that of course, just curious why you're so intent on changing the sliders? What's wrong with the original white ones?

[amigastar23]

I want to remove the clicker leaf and make a linear switch like in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsJq434UYTA

Not a thing wrong with that of course, just curious why you're so intent on changing the sliders? What's wrong with the original white ones?

So you're saying i can make linear Alps with the white Switches? They are bad quality, though. That's why i want to exchange them.

[thefarside]

Yes it should work without issues. Alps clones should also work. Before is a picture of pine white alps with the original slider on the left and a Matias slider on the left. The Matias sliders it slightly smaller but works.
678E61F5-3FE1-4AF2-9337-0A3D8BE0EE16.jpeg

Wait, are those really Alps switches? Those are what I've been calling the "mystery switches", from 1992-93. Unbranded upper and lower housings, 1x mold numbering, and complicated Alps-style switchplates. They feel and sound like early SKCM switches, nothing like SKCM from 1992-93. I've found those in Datacomp keyboards, and they are hinted at in the wiki in a couple places. But who actually made and sold those, and why is the Alps branding missing?

edit: here's a wiki link with some photos of the mystery switches.

wiki/Datadesk_Switchboard

Note they're described as "incorrectly molded", but I find that hard to believe, considering how many must have been made. I would suggest that there were no Alps markings because 1) these were not made by Alps (someone else bought their tooling perhaps?) or 2) that someone specifically ordered them from Alps with no branding.

Sorry for the confusing post! The Matias slider was on the right side. I presumed the switches were alps because they looked, sounded and felt like genuine pine alps.

That keyboard is a Datadesk Mac 101-E. Below are some more pictures for reference. This was an eBay find with one picture that looked rough/dirty. Turns out it was perfectly preserved with two covers and the outside cover was dirty. Inside appeared NOS. The inner cover was a membrane plastic molded to the keyboard to cover the whole thing.

The stem on the left control key broke off and I wanted to see if Matias parts could be used as replacements for alps. I learned:

• Alps sliders are bigger than Matias and won’t fit in Matias top housing

• Matias sliders fit in alps top housings but are more wobbly but feel the same

• Matias housings can’t be used with pine alps due to the smaller simplified switch plate

Genuine alps does not fit in Matias housing:

Genuine alps does not fit in Matias housing

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Datadesk Mac 101-E Label:

Datadesk Mac 101-E Label

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Switch closeup:

Switch closeup

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Alps on the left, Matias on the right:

Alps on the left, Matias on the right

878AFC89-6F5F-4CBC-81D8-B0C4BDF3ADCB.jpeg (1.53 MiB) Viewed 9163 times

Alps on the left, Matias on the right:

Alps on the left, Matias on the right

694701E4-2CEA-4E9F-9858-C98B81182B24.jpeg (1.02 MiB) Viewed 9163 times

Alps on top, Matias on the bottom:

Alps on top, Matias on the bottom

69FB85EC-B4EF-47AF-8CE9-A98B4FBBFA22.jpeg (562.72 KiB) Viewed 9163 times

Hope this helps! If there’s anything else I can provide just let me know.

[Polecat]

So you're saying i can make linear Alps with the white Switches? They are bad quality, though. That's why i want to exchange them.

Yes, it's the click/tactile leaves that determine the switch type, not the sliders. The slider color was only different so they could tell the switches apart visually once they were assembled. That's why I was confused by your questions. If you have a better set of sliders in a different color you can use them, but changing just the sliders won't change the sound or feel of the switches.

[Polecat]

Sorry for the confusing post! The Matias slider was on the right side. I presumed the switches were alps because they looked, sounded and felt like genuine pine alps.

That keyboard is a Datadesk Mac 101-E. Below are some more pictures for reference. This was an eBay find with one picture that looked rough/dirty. Turns out it was perfectly preserved with two covers and the outside cover was dirty. Inside appeared NOS. The inner cover was a membrane plastic molded to the keyboard to cover the whole thing.

The stem on the left control key broke off and I wanted to see if Matias parts could be used as replacements for alps. I learned:

• Alps sliders are bigger than Matias and won’t fit in Matias top housing

• Matias sliders fit in alps top housings but are more wobbly but feel the same

• Matias housings can’t be used with pine alps due to the smaller simplified switch plate

Hope this helps! If there’s anything else I can provide just let me know.

Thank you, that's great information on the mystery switches. They do indeed sound and feel like early Alps SKCM. I'm really hoping we learn the truth about these. I have four or five Datacomp keyboards with them, and there are other examples posted here in various places.

We need to compare the dimensions to genuine branded Alps switches to see if the parts interchange. That would help to confirm whether these switches were built using older Alps tooling, rather than being clones. I think someone suggested that Forward might have made these. Datacomp is another possibility, especially considering they have been found in Datacomp keyboards.

[hellothere]

So you're saying i can make linear Alps with the white Switches? They are bad quality, though. That's why i want to exchange them.

Yes, it's the click/tactile leaves that determine the switch type, not the sliders. The slider color was only different so they could tell the switches apart visually once they were assembled. That's why I was confused by your questions. If you have a better set of sliders in a different color you can use them, but changing just the sliders won't change the sound or feel of the switches.

Although you can lube them. he he he he

BTW, before I saw this page, I did swap the sliders from a pine white to a bamboo black. They fit just fine.

[amigastar23]

What I've learned is, you can't go wrong with Alps, wether it's White, Blue, Green, Black. It all is good, right?

[Muirium]

Some Alps are quite meh. Really depends on what you like. Even the nicest linear Alps aren’t up to much, for me, because I don’t like linear so only really feel the imperfections. But YMMV.

[Meowmaritus]

I got NOS white alps and put the click leafs from some scratchy blue alps in there. It's really really close to being as good as NOS blue alps. This was done in a brand new FK-2001. I love it.

[Meowmaritus]

Okay I have now put my white alps with blue click leafs into a gold badge OmniKey 102 and the sound is way more deep and cool sounding so I like it a lot more

[thefarside]

Okay I have now put my white alps with blue click leafs into a gold badge OmniKey 102 and the sound is way more deep and cool sounding so I like it a lot more

Mind sharing a picture of that beauty? Or a video of it in action?

[Meowmaritus]

Okay I have now put my white alps with blue click leafs into a gold badge OmniKey 102 and the sound is way more deep and cool sounding so I like it a lot more

Mind sharing a picture of that beauty? Or a video of it in action?

I don't have a good setup to record video but I can take some pics tomorrow.

I'll also take some pics of my almost brand new AEK2, very rare to see one that isn't yellowed.

[darkcruix]

Speaking of the AEK - I just finished a Alps64 based on an AEK with Tactile Orange switches.
I used the original caps in an Acrylic translucent case.

[Meowmaritus]

Speaking of the AEK - I just finished a Alps64 based on an AEK with Tactile Orange switches.
I used the original caps in an Acrylic translucent case.

Really cool, though I love the original cases too much to do a custom build with these caps. Also, I've yet to try orange alps, but I have tried pine white alps with tactile leafs from pine cream damped which is supposed to be pretty similar to salmon alps, and I like that combo a lot.

[Meowmaritus]

So yeah since mentioning that I like that combo, I've gotten 9/10 condition white alps and put the tactile leafs from some cream damped switches in them and installed them in my FK-2001. Very nice to type on.

And yes I just have nice condition pine white alps click leafs sitting in a container instead of being on a board. They're really disappointing. After using blue alps click leafs I just can't stand the white alps click leafs and I finally know how to describe my problem with them: They are just milder tactile alps with a click sound, they don't feel like an actual clicky switch.

Anyways, ranting aside, I really like proper tactile leaf alps and I wanna get a NOS AT101 with salmon alps one day, it sounds so good.

[darkcruix]

Just wanted to share another Alps based build. This time it is a HHKB inspired 60% with Tai-Hao black keycaps. The switch I've chosen is the Brown Alps using a stainless steel plate. The case is anodized aluminum in a dark gray finish.

Spoiler:

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[Rezene]

Taking apart my pingmaster thought you guys would like this pic

Spoiler:

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[Hak Foo]

I did a respin of my 130% PCB design to accept ALPS switches, and added an OLED feature. This was a mistake; I implemented before research, only to discover that the OLED can only be wired to specific pins on the controller. I had to cut the tracks to the OLED and two of the lamps and bodge it together.

I also discovered that apparently Teensy++ units are now formally extinct as a new-stock product, so I now have eight "reserved for the next switch I want to commit to" PCBs (four MX, four ALPS) that cry out for them. It's really a problematic niche. Since my matrix design is designed for easy-to-decipher, rather than efficient (23x7 + 2 pins for encoder + 2 for OLED + 3 lamps = 37 GPIOs), most of the cheap STM32 "coloured pills" and the RasPi Pico are insufficient.

Also tried using JLCPCB's "aluminium PCB" feature as a cheaper substitute for plate building. They offer a 1.2mm thickness which I think is right in the recommended range for switches to snap-in. That worked out well, it doesn't seem notably flexier than a metal plate and it looked better out of the box. (Unfortunately, I should have designed the plate in reverse, so I could mount it metal-side-up instead of green-coated-side up)

Grand total: Five PCBs + five plates + shipping = 150 USD, or roughly what you'd pay for the plate alone from a water-jet shop.

I built one out with a new box of Matias clicks and the Tai-Hao Dolch caps I bought a spare set of back when they were exotic and had to be ordered via Massdrop or something. It's a plastickier sound than I remember, although it's probably because the case isn't bolted together tight yet. (I'm reusing the sandwich from the original MX-mount design, but I need to figure out something to do with the OLED)

[hellothere]

The keyboard is a Northgate OmniKey 102. This one had a blue label with block lettering. August 1989. Serial 01968x. Has a ribbon cable. Picture taken with a potato. Hammered black paint from Behr. Matte clear coat.

Spoiler:

omni102plate.jpg (2.77 MiB) Viewed 8056 times

I'm still working on the case.

[thefarside]

The keyboard is a Northgate OmniKey 102. This one had a blue label with block lettering. August 1989. Serial 01968x. Has a ribbon cable. Picture taken with a potato. Hammered black paint from Behr. Matte clear coat.

Spoiler:

omni102plate.jpg

I'm still working on the case.

Looks fantastic. I’d like to get one of these and see how it compares to the gold label/blue alps version.

[morbid42]

Alps, oh my Alps

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[Muirium]

You ain’t kidding!

Those all yours? You got a good lock on your door?

[engr]

So, I just finished restoring a DC-2214 with blue alps. After top cleaning, the switches feel smooth and they have that characteristic blue Alps click and thock. But... that pinging. I have never heard a complicated Alps board ping this much, only some boards with simplified Alps. Is this something specific to this chassis, or maybe to this version of blue Alps (white switchplates, shiny springs)?

[Polecat]

So, I just finished restoring a DC-2214 with blue alps. After top cleaning, the switches feel smooth and they have that characteristic blue Alps click and thock. But... that pinging. I have never heard a complicated Alps board ping this much, only some boards with simplified Alps. Is this something specific to this chassis, or maybe to this version of blue Alps (white switchplates, shiny springs)?

My DC-2214 came with white Alps originally. I transplanted blues for the alphas, from a DFK-777 donor board. Sorry, I don't know which switchplates are in the blues, but it's definitely pingy. It's not objectionable to me, and I don't remember if the whites were pingy or not. But it's easy enough to find out, since the rest of the switches are still original, I'll check it ASAP.

[engr]

Sorry, I don't know which switchplates are in the blues, but it's definitely pingy. It's not objectionable to me, and I don't remember if the whites were pingy or not.

Thank you, that's what I suspected. Switchplates probably won't matter, but the springs might. The ping is tolerable, I am slowly getting used to it, but it was strange to hear it in a complicated Alps board.

[Polecat]

Thank you, that's what I suspected. Switchplates probably won't matter, but the springs might. The ping is tolerable, I am slowly getting used to it, but it was strange to hear it in a complicated Alps board.

I just dug it out and the remaining white switches are pingy too, so it must be the case.