IBM Model M alt-grave key

AndyJ · 11 Jan 2023, 19:48

I've found many references to the UK Model M referring to the right alt key as "alt grave". Apparently it's primarily used for entering non-English characters.

The alt grave would be a nice addition to my F/AT when I do the M spacebar mod. So I've been looking for a keycap marked "alt grave"

I've found some pictures of UK Ms, but they all just say "alt" on the right alt key. Were the UK Model Ms not actually labeled "alt grave" on the right alt key, or what?

engr · 11 Jan 2023, 20:30

At least some UK Model Ms had the Alt Graph key:
https://www.preater.com/modelm/

If you want a standalone AltGr keycap, you can probably buy one from Unicomp.

photekq · 11 Jan 2023, 21:00

AndyJ wrote: 11 Jan 2023, 19:48 I've found some pictures of UK Ms, but they all just say "alt" on the right alt key. Were the UK Model Ms not actually labeled "alt grave" on the right alt key, or what?

So, there's two things you could mean by "UK M":

1. Model M's with UK ISO layout, the regional layout used in the UK.
2. Model M's made in the UK (Greenock).

Keyboards from group 2. will not necessarily have the "Alt Gr" keycap, since they can come in ANSI (American) layout - ANSI layout doesn't have an "Alt Gr"; instead, it has two "Alt"s.

Keyboards from group 1. will almost certainly have an "Alt Gr", since that is standard for UK ISO layout, as well as most other ISO (European) layouts.

Also, as engr said, it's "Alt Graph" not "Alt Grave". And further to that, the keycaps just say "Alt Gr".

AndyJ · 12 Jan 2023, 01:24

Unicomp doesn't have any, but modelfkeyboards shows them in stock.

kmnov2017 · 12 Jan 2023, 10:11

[*]

AndyJ wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 01:24 Unicomp doesn't have any, but modelfkeyboards shows them in stock.

Unicomp can print whatever you want. Here's where you order a custom print
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/PRK

AndyJ · 12 Jan 2023, 16:14

Yes, but those are 1u caps. You can only get 1.5u caps with one of the legends on the order pick list. Alt-Gr isn't one of the picks.

kmnov2017 · 12 Jan 2023, 17:14

AndyJ wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 16:14 Yes, but those are 1u caps. You can only get 1.5u caps with one of the legends on the order pick list. Alt-Gr isn't one of the picks.

Not true, you can email unicomp and they'll print what ever you want in any legend colour.

Seirin-Blu · 12 Jan 2023, 20:01

kmnov2017 wrote: 12 Jan 2023, 17:14 Not true, you can email unicomp and they'll print what ever you want in any legend colour.

I don’t think this is true anymore. I tried a few months ago and they essentially went “nah bro”

AndyJ · 13 Jan 2023, 03:24

Correct. I emailed them, and per their reply earlier this week they're not doing any custom 1.25 or 1.75u caps at this time.

Hopefully they will resume in future.

kmnov2017 · 13 Jan 2023, 12:33

AndyJ wrote: 13 Jan 2023, 03:24 Correct. I emailed them, and per their reply earlier this week they're not doing any custom 1.25 or 1.75u caps at this time.

Hopefully they will resume in future.

Now that's a bummer

AndyJ · 15 Jan 2023, 20:31

Yesterday I ordered three "Alt-Gr" keys from modelfkeyboards.com. $4 each, plus $10 postage; considerably higher than Unicomp. On the other hand, they offer sizes, and symbols that Unicomp doesn't; I ordered a 1.25u "Shift" key with the "Alt-Gr" keys.

The closest Unicomp could get was an "Option" key with a faint "Alt" below and to the right. I think that might be some Apple thing.

Last week's order from Unicomp came in. The font on the 1u Meta, Super, and Hyper keys was much thicker ("bold"?) than the original IBM keys, but I can live with that. The 1u + key looked fine, and the font on the 1.5u Backspace key matched the original quite well, as did the 1.75u right "Shift" ley. It's stepped, but I've been using a stepped 1.75u Capslock key there since I split the right shift, and the step has never been a problem; I tend to hit smal in the middle of the stepped top.

Splitting the shift left key hasn't worked so well. Somehow, I have an ingrained habit of using my left *thumb* to work the left shift key instead of my little and/or ring fingers. I don't have a spring and hammer in the right 1u spot yet, so I keep catching myself curling my thumb around the Alt key to reach the 1.25u left shift. I'm beginning to think I might be better off just using the right 1u as left shift and using the 1.25u spot for something else.

For whatever reason, it seems to be something I picked up when I learned to type on a Model F so long ago. Even after 12 years on 104-key boards, it instantly came back when I went back to the F. I've used some 104-key boards in the last few weeks, and I don't seem to do it on them.

I have big hands, and the right shift is spaced away from the alpha block with two columns of punctuation keys, so there's plenty of room to reach over with my little finger. But the left shift has the alphas right up against it, and I have to cramp my hand awkwardly to shift.

Dinking with xmodmap, I have a left Esc now. The Esc on the cursor block is still there, but I almost never use it. I have to add a spring and hammer to the spot above the M horizontal Enter key for the new Backspace, and ~,` can move from exile on the cursor block to where the original Backspace was. Right Ctrl is working, and ctrl++ is one-handed again. One of the things I liked about the M was the vertical Enter on the number pad; I added one to the F's cursor pad, and split the 2u 0/Ins to two 1us. NumLock, ScrollLock, and SysReq are Meta, Super, and Hyper now. I don't actually have much use for them yet.