Cherry Corp Stabilizers, GIMME BACK MY CLACK! "Ok." WHAAAT?!

off · 07 Jun 2012, 15:47

Yes.
The clack-killing nature of the cherry corporation stabilisers is a deliberate design decision/feature.

A new topic seeing the importance of the subject matter at hand, in light of not being able to find anyone having noticed this before.

My cherry stabilised MX11800 now clacks on all keys.

Took me about an hour (of muckin' about), should be doable in 15mins easy; most is from taking your board apart and getting it back together, and testing what you like best.
I would suggest only those who have at least two spare stabilizers to muck around with this, since it's destructive in nature; and who knows; perhaps you're already unknowingly hooked into the mushy default feel.

So to get the best of both world, easy non-destructive cap swapping, and retaining the CLACK! you will need some pliers, a stanley, and a screwdriver. Some quality duct-tape to test if you'd like to add that is optional.
ENJOY ^^

*note, this was proven on PCB-mounted stabilisers only; having never seen plate mounted ones, no comment on those.

**edit, TLDRthread, pornQuickFix:

On the left what I ended up doing, on the right the stock insert.
My posts containing more pics: 1, 2.
And a concise description of the result, as experienced by RC-1140:

"I just tried the mod, and I'm amazed. A real nice bottoming out sound on my stabilized keys now, and it doesn't feel like o-rings anymore! Great Mod!"

And as ripster mentioned:
- Bottoming out feel/sound (the THWACK) - that is what this mod addresses, the last part of the travel.
- Sluggishness overall next to a Filco Stabilizer - not adressed with this, and I don't have Costar's to compare to either.

While I'm at it: it has been pointed out that there is a case of 'prior art', where the Koreans actually have been aware of this since around 2004; at least the toe-clipping part, and have been clipping their boards as a standard method ever since.
Again, enjoy!

JBert · 07 Jun 2012, 16:20

You make no sense...

No pictures, no video, no detailed explanation... I simply don't know what you are talking about here...

off · 07 Jun 2012, 16:26

Do you have a stabiliser at hand? Look at it and you don't need any more explanation I think...

Don't have a camera handy, but it's just two slices with a knife to get clackin'.

Plus I thought it'd be nice to leave this to those who really want it for a little while.

sordna · 07 Jun 2012, 16:35

off, I'm very interested in this mod, please provide more info and pics, even if you have to borrow a camera or cell phone. Don't tease us without even some basic instructions!

off · 07 Jun 2012, 16:38

You're lucky I did manage to snag a camera just now (nope, not mine

)...
But, while I'm working on shots, please take a moment to see if you can't work it out yourselves

off · 07 Jun 2012, 16:56

Wow, I'd really thought this would be more in demand. Ah well, here's a hint to tide you over 'till I get the rest down.

ripster · 07 Jun 2012, 17:12

Nice FONT!

Boring but nice.

Peter · 07 Jun 2012, 17:32

Cherry-BOARDS SUCK !!
The switches are awesome, even some of the caps are awesome !
But the boards ? THEY SUCK !!
The ONLY Cherry-board I have that like to even touch is a G81-3000HAM, steel-plate and STEEL-RIVETS !!
But the switches SUCK !! My Legos are more solid than a Cherry-board !

ripster · 07 Jun 2012, 17:35

I question the goal of this mod.

It's like asking how to add PING back to Cherry MX switches.

off · 07 Jun 2012, 17:43

grmbl... I could play hard to get (haata quizstyle)
But since I've already got the shots edited I'll drop them, as well since I'd love to hear your reactions to the results.
So take a quick gander and get cutting!
*edit: PICS of fix are in the spoiler:

Spoiler:

Now as addendum; the pliers are for getting the stabs out of the pcb, the knife for cutting the offenders off

, the screwdriver for opening the board in the first place.

And the optional tape is to put a sliver on the bottom of what remains off the stabilizer insert; not quite sure if this helps, but went that way since when I tested on backspace I noticed that the key gave too much clack for my liking, obviously from the inserts hitting the pcb; do take care to make it a small slice that does not touch the metal bar since it'll stick to that making for a very awkward experience.
Also because I noticed a slight metal ring that wasn't there before; which is now indeed still present on the only key I didn't fully cut (to be able to compare the difference I left it as such).
Such being having only lost the two 'feet' instead of the full legs (as the pictures show how to). That didn't satisfy me, hence the full chopping monty.
Result satisfies me for sure (though it's a very fresh mod, so if you break your pcb when smacking enter; all yours)!

@peter, being an MY board disqualifies regardless.

@rip, if you don't know nor care, don't troll. appreciated.
There are quite a few people that get heavily annoyed by the mushy-mushy crap that the cherry stabilizers add to the near-bottom-out part of the travel of the switch, myself included. There, I fixed it.
And what makes cherry stabilizers nice is that they allow quick and painless cap-swaps, no swapping inserts between keys, no metal rods bending when people fail to remove them subtly enough, no rods popping out.
Not as if you weren't already aware, hence my remark.

NOW CUT IT!

*edited to add spoiler tags to circumvent annoying phpbb pagejumping during load.

off · 07 Jun 2012, 18:16

The tape goes here btw:

: 12 naked bottom tape.jpg (199.21 KiB) Viewed 26447 times

And use some of that good stuff which doesn't turn into mush (lookin at you icky grey ducttape).

itlnstln · 07 Jun 2012, 18:20

Peter wrote:Cherry-BOARDS SUCK !!
The switches are awesome, even some of the caps are awesome !
But the boards ? THEY SUCK !!
The ONLY Cherry-board I have that like to even touch is a G81-3000HAM, steel-plate and STEEL-RIVETS !!
But the switches SUCK !! My Legos are more solid than a Cherry-board !

Damn...

I personally like Cherry 'boards. I feel some of the "cheapness" allows the "non-switch" parts/materials to get "out-of-the-way" from between you and the switch itself. That said, they are kinda ugly. I would rather look at, say, a Filco than a Cherry.

ripster · 07 Jun 2012, 19:54

Personally I think he was kidding.

Everybody likes Lego.
Well... MOST people...
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?2202 ... of-The-Day!

Nice mod, now that I know what you are trying to accomplish! I should drag out my one Cherry Keyboard, the RicerCar SPOS.

Plus I have extras of the G99 stabilizers.

off · 07 Jun 2012, 20:18

Awesome, just what this thread needed, some quality pics where you can actually see the shades of black!
Shame about the hair though. Now if you'd be so kind as to cut one of those to show how the end result should be in correct lightning; in which case I'll leave the yelling of 'not like that ffs' behind.

Bring that ricer to the meet in a few weeks, willing to nab it off your hands

And yes, the aim is uniformity.
B'sides, I don't have any costar stabilizers, only the prequel to those (as used on MY boards, yuuuck).

For those still in doubt (understandably since I only posted 'before' pics taken after the job (board is back together)), here's the two slices again:

: ripsted clear cut pic.jpg (87.25 KiB) Viewed 26421 times

I'll repeat myself here, for anyone interested (I know you are); please do it with a spare first. So you'll be able to change your mind without ill effects; I'm just saying.
It looks as if those legs getting severed here serve to stabilize the insert inside the shaft as well, but I haven't noticed any ill effects myself; perhaps your senses say otherwise.

ripster · 07 Jun 2012, 21:49

Well, I'm typing this post using my Cherry G99 stabilized keyboard and am not really seeing the big deal about the bottoming out.

But then my Enter and other keys, as you can see from the pic are smaller than normal. PLUS, I soldered in a Cherry MX Clear switch for the spacebar so it's OK for me as well. Maybe a little less THWACK than I'd like.

Helvetic FTW!

off · 07 Jun 2012, 22:20

Rip, are your enter and shift even stabilised? Backspace and other shift clearly aren't, and the 1.75u keys on this board aren't either..
Try the + and enter on that numpad, even though you'll notice it less since they're not part of the typing experience as such; it's about the resonance of the keycap, all keys tap onto the pcb or switch, not entirely sure which makes the comforting clackity clack, but very sure that the keys that are stabilised with default cherry corp ones don't. They mushmash.
Spacebar seems a different beast though, not entirely satisfied with the result on that; but haven't bothered to check how/what's the deal with that.
Also tried to record it just now, and while it was crystal IRL, when watching the vid it just didn't come across; at all.
I'll bring it to the partey at Interface's, hoping he'll be willing&able to capture it nicely.

Limmy · 07 Jun 2012, 22:25

The mod has been known for quite some time in KBDMania. (see this post back in 2004 http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/116137 )

The plastic legs are designed to reduce the impact of a large stabilized keys bottoming out and the design is causing the mushiness.

The mod point is to get rid of this impact reducing plastic legs so that you could get clacking sound just like other keys. I am not sure how and by how much the impact is causing adverse effect, but if you are hitting the stabilized keys pretty hard, it would be wise to leave them as is because significant amount of impact to electronics is never a good thing.

Limmy · 07 Jun 2012, 22:33

off wrote:Also tried to record it just now, and while it was crystal IRL, when watching the vid it just didn't come across; at all.
I'll bring it to the partey at Interface's, hoping he'll be willing&able to capture it nicely.

Sound recording of key typing has to be done using fixed level recording device. Most consumer products are variable level, meaning the recording device amplifies quiet sound and reduces loud sound on the fly with a slightest lag. This recording method is good for general use such as capturing voices, but not very good for capturing the typing sound, which obviously consists of very loud pop every now and then. Also, it would be very hard to capture ping sound with such device too, because it comes right after a loud clack (at the moment the recording level would be too low to capture the sound)

off · 07 Jun 2012, 22:42

You know, it's a shame you had to come with that only after I'd taken half a day to search for and then come up with a cure, post about it, snag a camera, get pictures up, try and convince ripster of the need and effect, fail at recording videos of it, and miss out on my 5 seconds of fame.. Cheers! :"|
Thankfully there's a slight difference, in that my post is only 8 years overdue, in english, and I chopped of more than just those 'feet' pointed at on that pic 'over there'.
Also, thanks for posting that on those threads complaining about the 'cloud of silicone' nature of these stabs.

(meant in good spirits, just feeling a little off)
=P

re sound recording with onsumer devices, am aware of that, still figured it might do to give an impression and show people that it works.

ripster · 08 Jun 2012, 01:13

Aw, do NOT ever feel bad posting a mod.

ANY mod post is worth 100 typical forum epeen posts.

UNLIKE Limmy's yours was in English and didn't take my iced espresso preparation time to load the pictures.

sordna · 08 Jun 2012, 08:39

off, this is a good mod IMO. I dislike the fact that shift and enter feel totally different than the rest of the keys in my cherry-stabilized Poker. I dealt with the issue in a different way: I put o-rings on all keys except the stabilized ones (which were mushy already). The keyboard feels surprisingly uniform now.

off · 08 Jun 2012, 11:23

sordna wrote:I dealt with the issue in a different way

Yeah I read that (and appreciate you posting that solution), but seeing how I haven't yet gotten my hands on any O-rings and my annoyance tollerance level (first world problem) got high enough to fix it *somehow*; and it was so bloody simple..
That's the thing, I really couldn't believe how stupidly simple it is; and couldn't believe noone had figured this out before... and then I did start to believe I was the first

then along came limmy.

Too bad I didn't START THE MOD, good I introduced it here.

Oh, and thanks limmy, I actually honestly really do appreciate it.

Limmy · 08 Jun 2012, 16:20

I still think there are more contributions to be made to the mod article, such as
1. detailed pics of the mod
2. before and after sound recording

Most mod post I see lack details and they don't fully explain the effects, which leads someone like ripster to cast doubt. Most of the mods that are POPULAR and have long life certainly are worth while in my opinion. Most mod articles are just not kind enough to explain everything until you sit down and try them yourself.

I had doubts of lube business of Cherry MX and sticker mod myself for the above reasons(lack of analysis and lack of description of the effects), but after I tried them, I better understand what they do. And when I finally understand them, I feel lazy to explain it to others, just like people who had tried the same mod before me. Moreover, explaining and analyzing the effects needs control and treatment group, yet many people do not have multiple boards to separate the groups or they do not have incentive to do so unless they want to research the effect. Rough research has already been done, so many people are just using the outcome of the research and does not want to put in time and energy to produce additional research.

It is not an easy job to write something that explains, so it is understandable that there are only few mod posts with great detail. Also, the more you know about the mod, the details are so natural to you that you care less about explaining them. It happens with professors too. Students needs to know every step from A to Z to understand something, but professors only explain only intermediate steps e.g. A D R Z and they think they did enough explanation. Well, smart or diligent students understand them by filling in the gaps, but ordinary students have hard time understanding them and complains.

Maybe we need dumbed down version of the mod for everyone(including lazy ones) to understand. It is still worthwhile to educate the general public.

itlnstln · 08 Jun 2012, 16:23

Limmy and off apparently took writing lessons from Welly.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=executive+summary

In the spirit of the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_summary

ripster · 08 Jun 2012, 16:37

Critique Sandwich ItlnStln....Critique SANDWICH!
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-the-Complime ... o-Critique

My Geekhack suggestions to iMav and the 23 other moderators are Vegan Flatbread with extra meat.

Limmy · 08 Jun 2012, 16:53

itlnstln wrote:Limmy and off apparently took writing lessons from Welly.

I am not sure what this means. Would you care to explain more? Who is Welly? Was he a bad writer? Do you feel a need for an executive summary?

I personally think I am not a very good writer and I sometimes have hard time getting my point across. Moreover, English is not my first language. Maybe I should include TLDR summary every post with multiple paragraphs..

itlnstln · 08 Jun 2012, 16:54

ripster wrote:Critique Sandwich ItlnStln....Critique SANDWICH!
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-the-Complime ... o-Critique

My Geekhack suggestions to iMav and the 23 other moderators are Vegan Flatbread with extra meat.

I'm going low-carb.

itlnstln · 08 Jun 2012, 16:57

Limmy wrote:
itlnstln wrote:Limmy and off apparently took writing lessons from Welly.
I am not sure what this means. Would you care to explain more? Who is Welly? Was he a bad writer? Do you feel a need for an executive summary?

I personally think I am not a very good writer and I sometimes have hard time getting my point across. Moreover, English is not my first language. Maybe I should include TLDR summary every post with multiple paragraphs..

It's sort of an inside joke for those that remember ol' "Walls-o'-Text" Welly.

I'm a huge tl;dr guy. The ESL thing is understandable, though.

ripster · 08 Jun 2012, 16:59

Simple.

Introduction should include the goals of the modification and what will be done.
Tell them your conclusion.

Put the meat of the KEYBOARD SCIENCE in the form of pics to get over ESL issue but include one line clear captions.

Tell them you conclusion again.

Wait for Internet Post saying "what was your conclusion".

You see the SMART with READING SKILLS people just lurk.

itlnstln · 08 Jun 2012, 17:05

ripster wrote:Simple.

Introduction should include the goals of the modification and what will be done.
Tell them your conclusion.

Put the meat of the KEYBOARD SCIENCE in the form of pics to get over ESL issue but include one line clear captions.

Tell them you conclusion again.

Wait for Internet Post saying "what was your conclusion".

You see the SMART with READING SKILLS people just lurk.

That's why Ripster's guides/wikis are the best.