"clack" sound technically.

[Eszett]

Hi! Am I correct that the "clack" sound is from the contact of the spots I've marked violet?

What if these spots on the switch are cut out, what happens then?

xarmor-u9-keycap-640x480.jpg (29.15 KiB) Viewed 6523 times

[Broadmonkey]

Nope, the keycap will not touch anything on the switch other than the stem it sits on... or it shouldn't. The exception is when O-rings is used, but then it's technically not the keycap that is touching the switch.

It's the stem that's making the noise when it hits the bottom of the switch housing. It actually also makes a sound on the upstroke when it hits the top of the switch housing.

Also, mind different keycaps makes the sound produced in the switch, be it bottom out or click from a blue/green/white, sound different. The case also makes a different, as well as the plate (if any).

[kbdfr]

Hi! Am I correct that the "clack" sound is from the contact of the spots I've marked violet?

What if these spots on the switch are cut out, what happens then?

xarmor-u9-keycap-640x480.jpg

I would suggest you give it a try yourself and tell us the answer

[Eszett]

Broadmonkey, I can't believe ... When I remove the keycap and bottom the stem out by pressing with my finger, it makes a different sound (more muted, lower, softer).

[Laser]

The stem hits the bottom of the switch in the marked red areas:

http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/best_article/3354636

Hence the idea from the above link, to make the stem land first on an elastic surface, in the middle.

The bottom-hit sound is amplified by the keycap (acoustic shape) ... which you don't have, when you press the stem directly with your finger.

[Eszett]

@Laser that means the keycap is a resonating body, and o-rings are like a cushion dampening the sound waves (vibrations), but not for the actual impact?

[Laser]

The O-ring limits the maximum stem travel, so that *with the O-ring only*, the stem doesn't hit the bottom of the switch, because the O-ring hits the top of the switch, *first*. The "impact" is moved. I.e., with O-rings, you can't bottom out, you will "top out" first.

[Eszett]

I see. But the sharp impact sound is not there when bottoming out the stem without keycap. That is strange.

[002]

As Laser said earlier, the shape of the cap amplifies the noise. What you're doing by removing the cap and pressing it is similar to someone plucking the string of an acoustic guitar without a body.

[Laser]

Also, your finger body is elastic, and if you press directly the cherry stem, you have a small contact surface. The stem pushes against your finger over a small surface => high local pressure. This means the stem first goes "into" your finger, dampening the starting speed. Thus a lower speed is reached when you bottom out, the hit is weaker, so - no sound.

If you push the stem with the end of a pencil (bigger contact surface), you'll also get a better bottom out sound. A keycap has even larger contact surface, AND a resonating body.

[Muirium]

Quite right. True objectivity requires removing your hands from the experiment entirely.

The contact points on MX — the physical places where bottoming out and topping out occur — are inside the switch shell. You can damp the slider's base a bit as Jmneuv has done here:

http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8 ... t6118.html

He sent me a good few of those little discs to try out, which I need to do when I build a new MX custom.

As for "topping out" (the sound your board makes when you release a key and it snaps back to the top, and which is the other half of the definition of clack, far as I'm concerned) MX's internal geometry makes that very hard to damp. Alps and Topre each have switch models with just such dampers, but no one's managed to achieve it on MX, yet.

Anyway, think of caps as amplifiers rather than sources of the noise. The true source is inside the switches.

[Eszett]

Thanks for answers. Muirium, what if the stem itself is of a different material, which doens't transmit the sound waves that much. Hard gummi instead of plastic for example?

[lowpoly]

Blue switches also don't click very well without keycap.

[Muirium]

Sound is all about reverb. Even clicks.

Thanks for answers. Muirium, what if the stem itself is of a different material, which doens't transmit the sound waves that much. Hard gummi instead of plastic for example?

That would be an interesting experiment! It should work on the sound, in theory. But you might have a lot of trouble making the switch perform as it should. Those little things have to be quite tough to handle general use, and cap pulling.

[Broadmonkey]

Before you even think about durability, think about the friction introduces!

[Muirium]

Now you've got me thinking about switches made entirely of metal. CLANG!

Actually, the metallic feel of buckling spring is exactly what I like about it. Sharp, slick, and deadly. Well, deadly loud.

[Laser]

In this case, you "just" have to do the "trampoline mod" using 1mm tall "metal discs" instead, and also glue a similar disc on the stem foot. Metallic contact guaranteed

[Madhias]

I'm evil laughing to myself when thinking of a keycap with egg-carton inside, like in a rehearsal room. Or to use some polyurethane foam.

I have some switches on my desk, with different springs, some weird lubed, some not, just to see, hear and feel the difference. Of course it's not perfect, because all other things like the plate, case etc. influence the sound maybe more. Also it's perfect when the fingers need something to do.

For example a thick cap sounds - for me - better than a thin cap. I'm really looking forward to SA caps - more room inside - more / different sound.

Spoiler:

[Muirium]

Yes, SA caps are some of the best around. Only my Honeywells are thicker…

[Laser]

I'm evil laughing to myself when thinking of a keycap with egg-carton inside, like in a rehearsal room. Or to use some polyurethane foam.

Well, let's make it sound: we can actually place some guitar strings along each row (tensioned at keyboard's ends), so that, when you type, the strings would start singing ...

(or, in reverse, imagine an electric guitar's neck, full of cherry switches that actuate the strings
... in 2016, musicians will argue about topre guitars advantages over cherry mx ones)

[Muirium]

"That's no electric! Rubber domes are acoustic, don't you know!"

[Hypersphere]

Speaking of acoustics, imagine working in a room that looked like this:

insideviolin1.jpg (82.17 KiB) Viewed 6235 times

Alternatively, imagine such a space as the case for a keyboard with tunable sound.
The point is, there are many elements contributing to the sound of a particular switch and to the overall sound of a given keyboard.

[Laser]

Well, having a keyboard "resonating body" made from "violin-like" treated wood would be really something.
Imagine trying to type (making sense) and at the same time keeping such a typing flow/rhythm that you also produce a specific music. Mind boggling!

A form of "flappy birds", actually ..

[Muirium]

Nice picture. I'd put a nice swoopy grand piano in that room, just to mess with everyone.

The best thing about buckling spring is the punctuation it gives your typing. You get to feel like Thor, speaking in thunderbolts! I wouldn't mind trying a board that's tuned to create a kind of music. Perhaps making use of the fact that vowels are so often come between consonants, you could be more melodious than random.

[DerpyDash_xAD]

I need that for life, I'd pay far more for keycaps like that than clickclacks, it would be amazing if my keyboard made tuneful notes instead of high pitched clicks.

[Eszett]

>> it would be amazing if my keyboard made tuneful notes instead of high pitched clicks
I thought about this too. The most simple speakers, as mainboard speaker, are really cheap. Technically and financially it should be possible to mount one for each key on the PCB.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I wouldn't mind trying a board that's tuned to create a kind of music. Perhaps making use of the fact that vowels are so often come between consonants, you could be more melodious than random.

You mean, like this, but ordered?

I'm curious about ascaii's one that he's selling — maybe when he reappears I'll get to buy it.

[Muirium]

A switch so loud, I'm tempted to imagine making my own board chock full of it, just for its berserk…

[Hypersphere]

I wouldn't mind trying a board that's tuned to create a kind of music. Perhaps making use of the fact that vowels are so often come between consonants, you could be more melodious than random.

You mean, like this, but ordered?
<snip>
I'm curious about ascaii's one that he's selling — maybe when he reappears I'll get to buy it.

What are those switches? They almost sound like Caribbean oil drums.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

[wiki]Futaba clicky switch[/wiki]